About gun ownership

[Kappo]

hmmm.

probably shoulda froze instead of running at him.

</armchair qb>

obviously his intent was not good.

Screw intent. They were stealing things. In a house that COULD have been occupied. They don't even require my tax dollars or clog up the court system.

Sounds like quite a win/win outcome for everyone who obeys the law to me.

 

[Darwin333]

Oh, why even waste my time...

/facepalm

We have many more guns/cap than Texas by the way... Reasonable hunting is very popular up here.

I feel bad for you guys if super human criminals are actually a problem... why aren't folks doing something about it? Isn't that what the government should be dealing with? Putting those chaps in jail?

Reaction is not a solution... I am not claiming that one's area could not be so fucked up to require a gun.. only that most folks here would freak out and prevent that from happening long before it came down to it. Of course us military folks in "pansy" Canada are often of the opinion that civilians should not have access to weapons that are solely used for harming another human.. But that is not something supported in the USA very often. Our boys get months of training before they can even fire a hand gun/assault rifle... it isn't because we like wasting time.. Some things are better left to the pros.



Edit to add:

To clarify, I know that we don't have any constitution here regaurdign guns... I understand that Canada is a very different place than the USA... But folks are implying that I should own a gun for protection.. I do not require one, no one here does. Ideally no one ever will. Night and day places I suppose... I simply don't appreciate the fear mongering about how I should be scared of my own protection... Yeah... If JTF2 decides to break in I'll be royally fucked.. but come on. No criminals here are even close to beign worthy of fear... most are barely worth considering at all. That I am exceedingly proud of. If all yo had to worry about were rats you might feel the same. Perhaps you guys should work on replacing the bears with rats (yeah.. I like animal references)

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/04/11/louisiana.shooting/index.html


Its not that they are "super human criminals" it is that they simply don't give a fuck. A large part of that is the DA's history of being unable and unwilling to prosecute murder suspects so the thugs around here call it a "60 day homicide" when they are arrested because they will be out of jail in 60 days.

Even without the "super human criminals" (nothing superhuman about a thug who doesn't give half a damn about your life and will shoot you and 5 other people just to try and hit the one guy he wanted), it is better to have and not need than to need and not have. That is especially true when the lives of your loved ones are on the line.

 

[RoloMather]

I like how batshit moonbeam has been trying his hardest to troll this thread and nobody is even replying to his retard posts. Everyone just pretends he's not there

rofl

You don't respond to a fool if you don't have to. It only makes you look foolish.

It's best to ignore the fool unless you need to correct him lest he thinks he is wise.

Seems like most of the people on here knows that Moonbeam is a fool.

 

[Daedalus685]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/04/11/louisiana.shooting/index.html


Its not that they are "super human criminals" it is that they simply don't give a fuck. A large part of that is the DA's history of being unable and unwilling to prosecute murder suspects so the thugs around here call it a "60 day homicide" when they are arrested because they will be out of jail in 60 days.

Even without the "super human criminals" (nothing superhuman about a thug who doesn't give half a damn about your life and will shoot you and 5 other people just to try and hit the one guy he wanted), it is better to have and not need than to need and not have. That is especially true when the lives of your loved ones are on the line.

But that is my point... there is a serious problem if folks can get that apathetic towards crime... I know Canada gets a terrible rap for being soft on criminals, I assume this is because we have have no guaranteed life sentence (max without a parole hearing is 25, but there is no max total on a life sentence) and no capitol crimes... but you'd never see someone get away with something like that here..

Upstanding talented people rarely become criminals.. If the snivelling dregs are allowed to hone their skills for long enough I have no doubt they would become more of a threat than the average first time thief (or if social programs were such that the dregs never existed... but you know). But that is the problem, they should be dealt with the first time. I realize many will say "we are, by shooting them" but petty theft should not carry the death penalty and unless one plans to arm and train everyone to kill every criminal they see inept law enforcement will remain a huge issue.

The motto of better to have and not need than need and not have doesn't really apply here as it is a silly motto to use as an all encompassing rule. I don't have a lot of things that in some zany paranoia spree I could not dream up a time I'd 'need' it. One has to rank those things and only go after those that have statistical merit (not that a hand gun wouldn't in some places... just that I'd be hounding my mayor/MP/police/etc. if at some point it did here).

Also.. how would a side arm help against a random 'gang' shootings (the link doesn't say gang.. but a shoot out in a public place that resulted in such as sad loss of some kids lives would seem that way)? Those are pretty much the only deaths with fire arms (that are not accidental) in Ontario. All the guns in the world won't help the odd helpless teenage girl that gets hit with a stray bullet when some less than human retards start firing at each other.. Near as I can see it the only solution to that is to get rid of the retards.

 

[irishScott]

But that is my point... there is a serious problem if folks can get that apathetic towards crime... I know Canada gets a terrible rap for being soft on criminals, I assume this is because we have have no guaranteed life sentence (max without a parole hearing is 25, but there is no max total on a life sentence) and no capitol crimes... but you'd never see someone get away with something like that here..

Upstanding talented people rarely become criminals.. If the snivelling dregs are allowed to hone their skills for long enough I have no doubt they would become more of a threat than the average first time thief (or if social programs were such that the dregs never existed... but you know). But that is the problem, they should be dealt with the first time. I realize many will say "we are, by shooting them" but petty theft should not carry the death penalty and unless one plans to arm and train everyone to kill every criminal they see inept law enforcement will remain a huge issue.

The motto of better to have and not need than need and not have doesn't really apply here as it is a silly motto to use as an all encompassing rule. I don't have a lot of things that in some zany paranoia spree I could not dream up a time I'd 'need' it. One has to rank those things and only go after those that have statistical merit (not that a hand gun wouldn't in some places... just that I'd be hounding my mayor/MP/police/etc. if at some point it did here).

Also.. how would a side arm help against a random 'gang' shootings (the link doesn't say gang.. but a shoot out in a public place that resulted in such as sad loss of some kids lives would seem that way)? Those are pretty much the only deaths with fire arms (that are not accidental) in Ontario. All the guns in the world won't help the odd helpless teenage girl that gets hit with a stray bullet when some less than human retards start firing at each other.. Near as I can see it the only solution to that is to get rid of the retards.

Well part of it is that the US has always been more of a melting pot than Canada. We have cultures among cultures among cultures, each with it's own sub and counter cultures, all geographically interspersed. Each of said has it's own idea of how things should go. In the best of conditions that creates situations ripe for conflict, in the lower income/uneducated areas even more so. Canada does not have this on anything resembling the same scale.

And "better to have and not need" isn't any sillier than "some things should just be left to the pros". Driving is far more complex and arguably just as potentially deadly as owning a firearm, if not more so because you drive more often than you shoot. Maybe we should just leave driving to "the pros". How would you feel if you were only allowed to use government-provided taxis and owning a car was illegal? Or breathalyzers were mandatory in all vehicles because of an extreme minority of drunk drivers?

And actually civilian guns have saved lives many time in the US. Not just robbery or home invasion either. I recall one specific story where a concealed carry permit holder saved the life of a police officer. Have to run now, but I'll post a few links later.

 

[irishScott]

Links as promised; and I specifically searched for scenarios other than robberies and home invasions. If I included the latter we'd be here all night, and we wouldn't be talking about drunk high school morons.

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=2009_4769896

southwest Houston man who told police he shot a knife-wielding carjacker Thursday morning is getting a strong show of support from some of his neighbors.

"He was protecting us," said Jaime Zaldivar, who has lived next door to August Peters, 74, for several years on Carona near Wilcrest.

Peters pulled in front of the home about 6:30 a.m. when he noticed another car drive past and park along the curb across the street, police said.

Soon after Peters got out of his car, Martin Baltazar, 18, came up to him and jammed a knife against his throat, Houston police said.

"He said, ‘Give me your car or I'll kill you,'" said Victor Senties, an HPD spokesman.

Peters reached into his car for a pistol. He began firing, with at least one round striking Baltazar in the abdomen, Houston police said.

The wounded Baltazar fled across the street, forcing his way into the home where Luis Ramos lives with his wife and brother.

Baltazar ran through the house - terrifying Ramos' wife in the bedroom - as he sought to escape.

"He said, ‘Don't touch me. Don't touch me. Move,'" Ramos said. "I was nervous. I didn't know what to do in this case."

Ramos said Baltazar finally found the kitchen but was unable to open the locked back door.

"He took a big chair and he hit the window," Ramos said.

The bleeding Baltazar climbed through the shattered window but apparently had a problem holding up his baggy trousers, Ramos said.

"He left his pants in the kitchen," he said.

Baltazar vaulted the backyard fence but was captured moments later by Houston police a few blocks away from where he was shot.

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we...rpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&xcal_useweights=no

Minto pulled his gun and ordered the attacker to drop his knife, police said. The attacker fled, and authorities said Minto's actions likely saved the life of Dillon Mitchell, 30, of Harrisburg.

If Minto had not intervened, "We might be talking about someone who died,"said Deputy Swatara Twp. Police Chief Jason D. Umberger. "There are not many citizens out there that would have the courage to take that action."...

http://www.myssnews.com/news-telegr...ew-down-his-mini-glock-and-he-stopped-it.html

A Point man is being lauded for his courage after he pulled a gun to stop a man from beating up his girlfriend in a Sulphur Springs parking lot Wednesday.

The modern day knight in shining armor was legally carrying a concealed handgun and must have had a good instructor, said Sulphur Springs Police Capt. Norman Colyer, who is also certified to teach concealed handgun courses.

“He was right on the money,” Colyer said.

Lt. Antwone Young and officer Ronny Doss were sent to the VF Outlet Mall parking lot about 9:45 a.m. Wednesday to answer a report of a disturbance involving a gun. They found two men and a woman standing by a silver 2009 Hyundai Alantra and a pickup.

The woman pointed to one of the men and said, “He has a gun.” Officers could see a bulge above his right rear pocket and under his shirt, and ordered him to get on the ground, and both men were quickly in handcuffs.

It didn’t take long to figure out the 27-year-old Point man wasn’t the bad guy, however.

The 27-year-old woman who had been assaulted told officers that she was driving the Hyundai with James Douglas Arnold, 51, in the parking lot when the assault occurred. She said Arnold has been her boyfriend for several years but added that he had assaulted her many times in the past.

They decided to go to Whataburger, but when she turned the wheel to leave the parking lot, Arnold told her to let him drive. She refused. This apparently made Arnold “very angry,” as he suddenly grabbed her by the head and attempted to pull her from the driver’s seat. She said she almost struck a tree at the edge of the parking lot before applying the brakes at the last second.

Across the parking, lot, the Point man and another passerby, a retired Yantis man, heard the woman yelling.

“He heard her screaming ‘Help!’ at the top of her lungs,” Colyer said.

Both men made their way across the lot, and said they saw Arnold making punching motions and appeared to be striking the woman. And apparently, the Point man had seen enough as he got out of his pickup and walked over the Hyundai.

“He drew down with his mini Glock, and he stopped it,” Colyer said. “He told the guy to stop and get on the ground.”

He then called police for help. After they arrived, the Yantis man who’d witnessed the events corroborated his statements. The Point man was released and thanked for his service.

http://www.forestgrovenewstimes.com/news/story.php?story_id=127077009134675800

A 55-year-old Forest Grove man narrowly escaped a brawl with a drunk 21-year-old from Cornelius early Wednesday morning by firing a warning shot from his pistol while he was pinned, Police said.

John McKnight was walking his dog on the 1700 block of Elm Street about a half-hour after midnight Wednesday when he was accosted by a trio of inebriated young men.

McKnight said the three men assailed him with insults and continued to threaten him. McKnight then drew a .38 caliber pistol and told the trio to back down.

Police say Michael W. Ryan III, a Cornelius man with no fixed address, then said he didn't believe the gun was loaded, and began to assault McKnight.

Police say that Ryan kicked and choked McKnight, who struggled to free himself. In the midst of the struggle, Ryan bit McKnight's finger.

"He bit his finger pretty severely," said Capt. Aaron Ashbaugh, spokesman for the Forest Grove Police Department.

McKnight told police that Ryan had him in a sleeper hold and he felt that he was losing consciousness when he fired a shot from his revolver near Ryan's head.

Only then did the young man back off, Police said.

If 4 isn't enough, I can get more.

 

[yottabit]

Owning a gun is a responsibility and the fact that people refuse to acknowledge that is what gives gun owners a bad rep. I strongly feel that the best gun for self defense is the one that feels most natural and comfortable for you to use. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what crazy high tech features it has as they all accomplish the same end result. Ultimately it is a much more likely that having any gun present at all will resolve the situation, not how much firepower that particular gun will have. I'd really stay away from a rifle though since a stray rifle bullet can travel so far.

If you think your area is too good for crime, grow up
http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/10/4_teens_arreste.html

 

[spidey07]

The wife and I just had a conversation about this. After the break in, people in our home, we're very happy we are both well armed. She was a little apprehensive about all the firearms in the home but now the conversation has a whole new angle.

After that event she changed her mind. She started to think "What if?" Well, what if happened to us. I am lucky to have learned from it.

So as i make this post I know there is a firearm, loaded, within 10 feet of me. Same for other floors. You choose to enter my home and take or harm me and mine, you choose to die.

 

[BoberFett]

Owning a gun is a responsibility and the fact that people refuse to acknowledge that is what gives gun owners a bad rep. I strongly feel that the best gun for self defense is the one that feels most natural and comfortable for you to use. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what crazy high tech features it has as they all accomplish the same end result. Ultimately it is a much more likely that having any gun present at all will resolve the situation, not how much firepower that particular gun will have. I'd really stay away from a rifle though since a stray rifle bullet can travel so far.

If you think your area is too good for crime, grow up
http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/10/4_teens_arreste.html

The woman must not have politely asked those murderous teenagers to leave her house. That seems to work in Canada.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Ok, in the act of raping your wife I suppose not.. but I was more talking about using it to scare off a burglar.. I mean what kind of town anywhere in the world is there a legitimate fear of folks coming into your house to rape your entire family?

If someone is in your house are you going to sit there and question their motives?
I'm not. If someone enters my house without permission they'll be leaving in a body bag.

 

[nick1985]

^^ that linked story is sickening