Abortion

[Lazy8s]

Originally posted by: Stefan
Most of these things come up after reading the advice columns in my newspaper each morning.

Today there was a young girl (22) who left her boyfriend of 2 years because she cheated on him (he doesn't know this though). She finds out that she is pregnant from the guy that she cheated with. The advice columnist helps her with her different options regarding going back to her old boyfriend, confronting the guy she cheated with, and staying with her father. Then she adds in "if you decide to keep the child..."...

The way I look at abortion is that it should not just be used as a form of birth control. I think that a person should be free to abort a child if it is conceived by means of rape, if there is sufficient evidence that the child will be born with severe illness/defects, or if the pregnancy will pose harm to the mother.

I don't believe that women should be allowed to abort a child on the grounds that they used bad judgement and made a mistake.

What do you guys think of my opinion?

wow, and you're a diamond member? How did you stay around this long starting flame wars?

Oh well!!

*cracks open a beer and grabs a chair near the front*:beer:

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: Amused
How about we attach Richard Simmons to your body. To remove him would kill him, but not you. What would you choose to do?

In my case, he'd be dead faster than if he were in prison But then, I'm not one of the pro-lifers.

My question to the pro-lifers: Every time a man masturbates or a woman menstruates, the possibility of having a child is being flushed down the drain - often literally. Likewise for oral/anal sex, likewise when birth control is used, etc. Actually a man and a woman can have intercourse without the use of any birth control and still not conceive. By your logic, isn't murder occurring in all of the above circumstances?

No, because there is no combination of living cells that self replicates.

 

[aphex]

Yeah

(chorus)
(skee-lo)
I wish i was little bit taller
I wish i was a baller
I wish i had a girl who looked good i would call her
I wish i had a rabbit in a hat with a bat
And a six four impala

(skee-lo)
I wish i was like six-foot-nine
So i can get with leoshi
Cause she don't know me but yo she's really fine
You know i see her all the time
Everywhere i go, and even in my dreams
I can scheme a way to make her mine
Cause i know she's livin phat
Her boyfriend's tall and he plays ball
So how am i gonna compete with that
Cause when it comes to playing basketball
I'm always last to be picked
And in some cases never picked at all
So i just lean up on the wall
Or sit up in the bleachers with the rest of the girls
Who came to watch their men ball
Dag y'all! i never understood, black
Why the jocks get the fly girls
And me i get the hood rats
I tell 'em scat, skittle, scabobble
Got hit with a bottle
And i been in the hospital
For talkin' that mess
I confess it's a shame when you livin' in a city
That's the size of a box and nobody knows yo' name
Glad i came to my senses
Like quick-quick got sick-sick to my stomach
Overcommeth by the thoughts of me and her together
Right?
So when i asked her out she said i wasn't her type

(chorus)
(skee-lo)
I wish i was little bit taller
I wish i was a baller
I wish i had a girl who looked good i would call her
I wish i had a rabbit in a hat with a bat
And a six four impala
I wish i was little bit taller
I wish i was a baller
I wish i had a girl who looked good i would call her
I wish i had a rabbit in a hat with a bat
And a six four impala

(skee-lo)
I wish i had a brand-new car
So far, i got this hatchback
And everywhere i go, yo i gets laughed at
And when i'm in my car i'm laid back
I got an 8-track and a spare tire in the backseat
But that's flat
And do you really wanna know what's really whack
See i can't even get a date
So, what do you think of that?
I heard that prom night is a bomb night
With the hood rats you can hold tight
But really tho' i 'm a figaro
When i'm in my car i can't even get a hello
Well so many people wanna cruise crenshaw on sunday
Well then i'ma have to get in my car and go
You know i take the 110 until the 105
Get off at crenshaw tell my homies look alive
Cause it's hard to survive when your livin'
In a concrete jungle and
These girls just keep passin' me by
She looks fly, she looks fly
Makes me say my, my, my

(chorus)
(skee-lo)
I wish i was little bit taller
I wish i was a baller
I wish i had a girl who looked good i would call her
I wish i had a rabbit in a hat with a bat
And a six four impala
I wish i was little bit taller
I wish i was a baller
I wish i had a girl who looked good i would call her
I wish i had a rabbit in a hat with a bat
And a six four impala

(skee-lo)
Hey, i wish i had my way
Cause everyday would be a friday
You could even speed on the highway
I would play ghetto games
Name my kids ghetto names little mookie, big al, lorraine
Yo you know that's on the real
So if you're down on your luck
Then you should notice how i feel
Cause if you don't want me around
See i go simple, i go easy, i go greyhound
Hey, you , what's that sound?
Everybody look what's going down
Ahhhh, yes, ain't that fresh?
Everybody wants to get down like dat

(chorus)
(skee-lo)
I wish i was little bit taller
I wish i was a baller
I wish i had a girl who looked good i would call her
I wish i had a rabbit in a hat with a bat
And a six four impala
I wish i was little bit taller
I wish i was a baller
I wish i had a girl who looked good i would call her
I wish i had a rabbit in a hat with a bat
And a six four impala
Yeah

You know, you know, you know skee-lo
Wish you were taller wish you were a baller
Skee-lo you know, you know, you know
Wish you were taller wish you were a baller
You know, you know, you know skee-lo
Wish you were taller wish you were a baller
Skee-lo you know, you know, you know
Wish you were taller wish you were a baller
You know, you know, you know skee-lo
Wish you were taller wish you were a baller
Skee-lo you know, you know, you know
Wish you were taller wish you were a baller
You know, you know, you know skee-lo
Wish you were taller wish you were a baller
Skee-lo you know, you know, you know
Wish you were taller wish you were a baller

 

[nakedfrog]

This is America. It's not your life, stay out of it.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: Bryophyte
I think that you're yet another person who wants to pass laws to force people to do what you want because you don't like it that you don't get a vote in how they live their own lives.

Stop with that BS. We have more laws protecting animals than we doing our own children. This is about morality. We agree that it's wrong to kill, but have different opinions on what is considered killing. I can use your same logic and say you're yet another person who wants to pass laws to force people die without their consent because someone else gets a vote in whether or not they get to live their own lives.

If you want to debate the issue, uses facts and supporting arguments, don't yell at people they're forcing laws down other's throats.

 

[DWW]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: Amused
How about we attach Richard Simmons to your body. To remove him would kill him, but not you. What would you choose to do?

In my case, he'd be dead faster than if he were in prison But then, I'm not one of the pro-lifers.

My question to the pro-lifers: Every time a man masturbates or a woman menstruates, the possibility of having a child is being flushed down the drain - often literally. Likewise for oral/anal sex, likewise when birth control is used, etc. Actually a man and a woman can have intercourse without the use of any birth control and still not conceive. By your logic, isn't murder occurring in all of the above circumstances?

Not really. You need a fertilized egg for life to happen. Anything else wouldn't be life and thus not murder. At which point are you flushing a fertilized egg down the drain (literally) ?

 

[Amused]

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=17&articleID=0003F387-13E5-1C74-9B81809EC588EF21

An interesting correlation between the legalization of Abortion in '73 and the dramatic drop in crime in the 90s.

 

[DWW]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
This is America. It's not your life, stay out of it.

Devil's Advocate for a pro-lifer: if you were walking down the street and you saw a thug beat down a woman, shoot and kill her--should you stay out of it cause its not your life (this IS America afterall)?

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Electric Amish

Originally posted by: z0mb13
I am pro choice

 

[AndrewNF]

These threads always read the same. Zzz.

 

[OREOSpeedwagon]

Originally posted by: DWW

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
This is America. It's not your life, stay out of it.

Devil's Advocate for a pro-lifer: if you were walking down the street and you saw a thug beat down a woman, shoot and kill her--should you stay out of it cause its not your life (this IS America afterall)?

you have a choice whether or not to get involved, this is america

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: OREOSpeedwagon

Originally posted by: DWW

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
This is America. It's not your life, stay out of it.

Devil's Advocate for a pro-lifer: if you were walking down the street and you saw a thug beat down a woman, shoot and kill her--should you stay out of it cause its not your life (this IS America afterall)?

you have a choice whether or not to get involved, this is america

Not speaking legally, why do you support abortion?

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Amorphus

Originally posted by: TheBDB

I don't believe that women should be allowed to abort a child on the grounds that they used bad judgement and made a mistake.

I don't believe a child should have to live with their parents mistake.

But should a child die because of their parent's mistake?

Is a zygote a child? Is an embryo a child?

Yes and yes. Don't want a child, keep those gametes from joining.

 

[Kenazo]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
This is America. It's not your life, stay out of it.

The OP is actually in Canada.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: OREOSpeedwagon

Originally posted by: DWW

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
This is America. It's not your life, stay out of it.

Devil's Advocate for a pro-lifer: if you were walking down the street and you saw a thug beat down a woman, shoot and kill her--should you stay out of it cause its not your life (this IS America afterall)?

you have a choice whether or not to get involved, this is america

Not speaking legally, why do you support abortion?

From my post above:

At the root of the issue: No one, not even a fetus, has a right to force another person to allow it to be biologically dependant on it. That sacrifices the woman's rights for the fetus.

 

[Kenazo]

I'd be curious what percentage of pro-choicers are pro-euthenasia. I'm not trying to draw a comparison, just curious.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Stefan
Most of these things come up after reading the advice columns in my newspaper each morning.

Today there was a young girl (22) who left her boyfriend of 2 years because she cheated on him (he doesn't know this though). She finds out that she is pregnant from the guy that she cheated with. The advice columnist helps her with her different options regarding going back to her old boyfriend, confronting the guy she cheated with, and staying with her father. Then she adds in "if you decide to keep the child..."...

The way I look at abortion is that it should not just be used as a form of birth control. I think that a person should be free to abort a child if it is conceived by means of rape, if there is sufficient evidence that the child will be born with severe illness/defects, or if the pregnancy will pose harm to the mother.

I don't believe that women should be allowed to abort a child on the grounds that they used bad judgement and made a mistake.

What do you guys think of my opinion?

I think your opinion makes slaves of women. I think no one has a right to tell anyone else what they may, and may not do to thier body.

Here's a neat thing to think about:

How about we attach Richard Simmons to your body. To remove him would kill him, but not you. What would you choose to do?

At the root of the issue: No one, not even a fetus, has a right to force another person to allow it to be biologically dependant on it. That sacrifices the woman's rights for the fetus.

Was the women a slave before or after she allows a man's penis to enter her?

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: DWW

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: Amused
How about we attach Richard Simmons to your body. To remove him would kill him, but not you. What would you choose to do?

In my case, he'd be dead faster than if he were in prison But then, I'm not one of the pro-lifers.

My question to the pro-lifers: Every time a man masturbates or a woman menstruates, the possibility of having a child is being flushed down the drain - often literally. Likewise for oral/anal sex, likewise when birth control is used, etc. Actually a man and a woman can have intercourse without the use of any birth control and still not conceive. By your logic, isn't murder occurring in all of the above circumstances?

Not really. You need a fertilized egg for life to happen. Anything else wouldn't be life and thus not murder. At which point are you flushing a fertilized egg down the drain (literally) ?

But the chance is there, any woman who's on the pill could otherwise be bringing life into this world. Any man who masturbates could otherwise be impregnating women. A mainstay of the pro-life argument is to personalize the fetuses (fetii?), eg. those commercials showing little Bobby (or whatever, the point is to mention the kid's name at least 5 times), a kid who faced abortion but was given a second chance... In the commerciials, of course, little Bobby never has any of the bruises common to kids in the jokes we call foster care and adoption systems, and he's perfectly happy, not neglected and malnourished... My point is that the same rhetoric could be used to argue against birth control, to argue for having sex at every opportunity available - including rape. I can see it now...

<Commercial fades in to a boy playing on a swing. In the background, Yanni plays something which is supposed to be uplifting, but fails miserably>
Narrator: Little Billy here almost didn't make it. You see, when his mother was raped she asked her attacker to wear a condom. Lucky for Billy, neither of them had one handy. There are millions of opportunities like little Billy out there, don't they deserve the chance that Billy had? Whether you're a hard-up would-be rapist, or just a woman taking the pill, you're denying that opportunity to tens or even hundreds of little Billys. It's time to stop killing children. Call this toll-free number to find out what you can do to help, and to give us your number &amp; address for spamming purposes.
<Camera draws out as it fades away. Billy is now whistling>

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: OREOSpeedwagon

Originally posted by: DWW

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
This is America. It's not your life, stay out of it.

Devil's Advocate for a pro-lifer: if you were walking down the street and you saw a thug beat down a woman, shoot and kill her--should you stay out of it cause its not your life (this IS America afterall)?

you have a choice whether or not to get involved, this is america

Not speaking legally, why do you support abortion?

From my post above:

At the root of the issue: No one, not even a fetus, has a right to force another person to allow it to be biologically dependant on it. That sacrifices the woman's rights for the fetus.

So instead you sacrifice the fetus's rights for the woman.

I think the right to life outweighs the right to 9 months of comfort.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: Kenazo
I'd be curious what percentage of pro-choicers are pro-euthenasia. I'm not trying to draw a comparison, just curious.

Me.

 

[BigToque]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Stefan
Most of these things come up after reading the advice columns in my newspaper each morning.

Today there was a young girl (22) who left her boyfriend of 2 years because she cheated on him (he doesn't know this though). She finds out that she is pregnant from the guy that she cheated with. The advice columnist helps her with her different options regarding going back to her old boyfriend, confronting the guy she cheated with, and staying with her father. Then she adds in "if you decide to keep the child..."...

The way I look at abortion is that it should not just be used as a form of birth control. I think that a person should be free to abort a child if it is conceived by means of rape, if there is sufficient evidence that the child will be born with severe illness/defects, or if the pregnancy will pose harm to the mother.

I don't believe that women should be allowed to abort a child on the grounds that they used bad judgement and made a mistake.

What do you guys think of my opinion?

I think your opinion makes slaves of women. I think no one has a right to tell anyone else what they may, and may not do to thier body.

Here's a neat thing to think about:

How about we attach Richard Simmons to your body. To remove him would kill him, but not you. What would you choose to do?

I wouldn't let you attach him in the first place. I don't see how that is even relevant.

As for the other issue, I used to think like you and I was totally for abortion in any case (I am for abortion in a few select cases). Later, I started to realize that everyone in our society cries foul when our rights to "freedom" are encroached on. Your right to freedom doesn't mean that you are free to do whatever you like without any accountability for your actions.

To take things further, a fetus is a human being and as such has all the same rights that you and I have. This would put me in the light of not supporting any abortion (and this is contradictory of my belief), but I also see that a pregnant woman has the right to stop a pregnancy if it will cause harm to herself, if the child will have a severe disability, or if the mother is the victim of rape. In other words I see that the mother has rights that supercede the fetus in these cases.

 

[DWW]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: OREOSpeedwagon

Originally posted by: DWW

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
This is America. It's not your life, stay out of it.

Devil's Advocate for a pro-lifer: if you were walking down the street and you saw a thug beat down a woman, shoot and kill her--should you stay out of it cause its not your life (this IS America afterall)?

you have a choice whether or not to get involved, this is america

Not speaking legally, why do you support abortion?

From my post above:

At the root of the issue: No one, not even a fetus, has a right to force another person to allow it to be biologically dependant on it. That sacrifices the woman's rights for the fetus.

Oh so if it can survive outside of the woman then it would be okay? But since it is dependant on her then she should have the choice?

What happens if, in the future, abortion doctors could take the aborted fetus (or whichever state it is at) and grow it in a lab instead of having it die on the table. Should each fetus have the right to live through those means then, independant of the mother? Would the mother have any right or say for it?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: OREOSpeedwagon

Originally posted by: DWW

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
This is America. It's not your life, stay out of it.

Devil's Advocate for a pro-lifer: if you were walking down the street and you saw a thug beat down a woman, shoot and kill her--should you stay out of it cause its not your life (this IS America afterall)?

you have a choice whether or not to get involved, this is america

Not speaking legally, why do you support abortion?

From my post above:

At the root of the issue: No one, not even a fetus, has a right to force another person to allow it to be biologically dependant on it. That sacrifices the woman's rights for the fetus.

So instead you sacrifice the fetus's rights for the woman.

I think the right to life outweighs the right to 9 months of comfort.

Nope. Not at all. The fetus rights depend on the woman giving up hers, NOT vice-versa.

Say I attached myself to your body against your will and to remove me would kill me. Would you just suffer and give up your rights? Would you make someone else do the same?

What you say makes slaves of women to appease your moral judgement.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: DWW

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: OREOSpeedwagon

Originally posted by: DWW

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
This is America. It's not your life, stay out of it.

Devil's Advocate for a pro-lifer: if you were walking down the street and you saw a thug beat down a woman, shoot and kill her--should you stay out of it cause its not your life (this IS America afterall)?

you have a choice whether or not to get involved, this is america

Not speaking legally, why do you support abortion?

From my post above:

At the root of the issue: No one, not even a fetus, has a right to force another person to allow it to be biologically dependant on it. That sacrifices the woman's rights for the fetus.

Oh so if it can survive outside of the woman then it would be okay? But since it is dependant on her then she should have the choice?

What happens if, in the future, abortion doctors could take the aborted fetus (or whichever state it is at) and grow it in a lab instead of having it die on the table. Should each fetus have the right to live through those means then, independant of the mother? Would the mother have any right or say for it?

Fine and dandy.

 

[BigToque]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: DWW

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: Amused
How about we attach Richard Simmons to your body. To remove him would kill him, but not you. What would you choose to do?

In my case, he'd be dead faster than if he were in prison But then, I'm not one of the pro-lifers.

My question to the pro-lifers: Every time a man masturbates or a woman menstruates, the possibility of having a child is being flushed down the drain - often literally. Likewise for oral/anal sex, likewise when birth control is used, etc. Actually a man and a woman can have intercourse without the use of any birth control and still not conceive. By your logic, isn't murder occurring in all of the above circumstances?

Not really. You need a fertilized egg for life to happen. Anything else wouldn't be life and thus not murder. At which point are you flushing a fertilized egg down the drain (literally) ?

But the chance is there, any woman who's on the pill could otherwise be bringing life into this world. Any man who masturbates could otherwise be impregnating women. A mainstay of the pro-life argument is to personalize the fetuses (fetii?), eg. those commercials showing little Bobby (or whatever, the point is to mention the kid's name at least 5 times), a kid who faced abortion but was given a second chance... In the commerciials, of course, little Bobby never has any of the bruises common to kids in the jokes we call foster care and adoption systems, and he's perfectly happy, not neglected and malnourished... My point is that the same rhetoric could be used to argue against birth control, to argue for having sex at every opportunity available - including rape. I can see it now...

<Commercial fades in to a boy playing on a swing. In the background, Yanni plays something which is supposed to be uplifting, but fails miserably>
Narrator: Little Billy here almost didn't make it. You see, when his mother was raped she asked her attacker to wear a condom. Lucky for Billy, neither of them had one handy. There are millions of opportunities like little Billy out there, don't they deserve the chance that Billy had? Whether you're a hard-up would-be rapist, or just a woman taking the pill, you're denying that opportunity to tens or even hundreds of little Billys. It's time to stop killing children. Call this toll-free number to find out what you can do to help, and to give us your number &amp; address for spamming purposes.
<Camera draws out as it fades away. Billy is now whistling>

That's the most demented commercial I've ever heard of!