Abortion Views

[Cattlegod]

personally i wish i was aborted.

why do i say this? if i was aborted i would not know what i missed, all my wishes would come true, yet none would happen. i would never feel happy, yet i would never feel sad, there would be nothing. i value human life just as much as a plant, or rock, or moon, or star. we are nothing more than a small addition to the universe.

don't get me wrong, i'm not depressed, i have a wonderful life, girls, family, i'm not fat, and everything is going in the right direction for me. it is just most logical to be aborted.

obviously aborting everyone is not politically acceptable but the following one is more acceptable (but still will never in hell happen), i believe people who have defects should be aborted including all the blind, gimp, fat or stupid.

i also believe that up until 1 years old a child should be put to death if it was thought it would be better for the child.

if those methods were in operation, it would lead to a super strong and super intelligent species.

this would not have to be done once our genetic engineering became sufficient to fix any defects and enhance the race further.



many people are unable to comprehend this view, they become confused and shun it without giving it any deep thought. they say "you would never have met your beautiful wife you have been married to or have had the children you have" but yet they don't understand that it wouldn't have mattered for either of us.

my views in a point by point summary in order of preference:

1. Abort everyone
2. Abort the weak and defective
3. Genetically engineer every human to be perfect.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Tominator

Originally posted by: xospec1alk
i believe it is the choice of the mother
i think no one except the person actually carrying the baby should decide what is good for herself

So 8 months into the pregency she has a fight with her boyfriend and decides to kill it.

You MIGHT convince me into retro-active abortions!
:|

you do know that abortions are not done if the pregnancy has lasted over 3 months

last i heard there was difficulty even getting 3rd trimester restrictions in place. did they change it?

i'll support 3rd trimester only if there is danger to the mother's life (and the few rape/incest cases) simply because theres too many people born early and living just fine (myself included).

as for earlier, i have no problem with pills that prevent implant. but thats where it gets sticky. i think abortion is rather barbaric and i can predict a time when we'll have pretty darn perfect birth control methods so that abortion is only used to protect the older of the two lives. but we're not there yet, so regulated abortion is a necessary evil. outlawing it won't make it go away, it will simply become more dangerous to the mother.

 

[SpongeBob]

I'm pro-choice, I think abortion should be legal under all circumstances.

That being said, I am morally opposed to abortion and would never try to convince anyone to do it. Also, I do not want my tax dollars spent on it. If you want one, you pay for it yourself.

 

[minendo]

Cattlegod,

Are you related to Hitler in anyway?

 

[Vadatajs]

What are you views on abortion?

-not the best choice, unless there is a serious risk to the mother. That said it should be legal, and readily available.


Why do you hold these views?

-For a couple of reasons: 1, I don't believe that the government has the right to regulate anything that has a personal, moral situation behind it; it is the mother's place to decide and nobody else's; and 2, we pay enough welfare to out of wedlock inner city mothers. Abortion is cheaper.

Is there a situation in which you think it is right? Wrong?

-I think that my previous answers speak for themselves on this one.

 

[WarCon]

As a serious, committed, and intimate couple, I do not see how an outsider has any more right to say that we should abstain from intercourse than they do to tell a woman what she can do with her body. If a vasectomy had a higher reversal percentage than it currently does, I would choose that method in place of having the woman tinker with hormones and chemical balences within her body. But alas, it is not highly reversable at the time, so it is not a likely solution.

There is no black and white issue here. I believe after a certain point a fetus is human, and others feel differently. We could argue till we are blue in the face and nothing will change those beliefs.

To counter your argument about liberals and the death penalty - I personally find it odd that someone who is against abortion would have no problems killing someone for stealing a $150 stereo. I find that a serious flaw in beliefs myself, reguarless of political slant.


As for multiple methods (other than cost), you can use spermicides and condoms together to produce a 99.98 or .99 percent effectiveness (which significantly lowers the possibility to 1 in 5000 or 1 in 10000 times). I really wasn't suggesting hormone treatments unless your wife or girlfriend chooses to go that route and take those risks.

Please don't misconstrue what I said to be a personal attack. It is just truly how I feel. I don't think anyones future should be arbitrarily decided by anyone else's convenience or inconvenience (even if they are the parents).

Since the law allows abortion up to the third trimester, are you saying that your against the abortion laws as they are written? That would mean those who have been left to decide (doctors,scientists, polititians...etc.) are wrong in their determination as to when life begins.

I also don't think the death penalty should be used arbitrarily. It is an extreme that should be reserved as a deterrent to extreme crime and extreme criminals who have no regard for human life.

 

[Tripleshot]

People who want abortions after accidentally becoming pregnant anger me. It's your own fault if this happens.

Gee, lets punish the women then and make them give birth to an unwanted baby.

Very poor logic.:disgust:

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Tripleshot

People who want abortions after accidentally becoming pregnant anger me. It's your own fault if this happens.

Gee, lets punish the women then and make them give birth to an unwanted baby.

Very poor logic.:disgust:

Let's punish the child and kill them for the mother's mistake.

 

[StattlichPassat]

Originally posted by: minendo
After reading LukFilm's Thread about his pregnant ex and everyone's views on abortion I got to thinking (yeah it hurts).

[*]What are you views on abortion?
[*]Why do you hold these views?
[*]Is there a situation in which you think it is right? Wrong?

This is to be a seious discussion and not some damn thread that you try to high jack. If you don't have valid comments, do not press the damn reply button.

You have no idea the can of worms you just opened up on this one, do you? This is just asking for a flame-out. :disgust:

I can't believe I'm even responding to this thread but I have nothing better to do- my views are simple: it's wrong, wrong, and wrong. There is NEVER an acceptable time for it! This is why we have something called adoption agencies in case you make a mistake. Nevertheless, one that is faced with a decision like this should have known the consequences of what he or she was 'doing' nine months prior. It's a disgusting act, and I consider it flat-out murder. Period. It is the shedding of innocent blood. No further comment.

 

[minendo]

Originally posted by: NightFlyerGTI
You have no idea the can of worms you just opened up on this one, do you? This is just asking for a flame-out. :disgust:

Over 50 replies and it seems to be going fine so far.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: minendo

Originally posted by: NightFlyerGTI
You have no idea the can of worms you just opened up on this one, do you? This is just asking for a flame-out. :disgust:

Over 50 replies and it seems to be going fine so far.

Agreed.

 

[Tripleshot]

Let's punish the child and kill them for the mother's mistake.

That is an assumption that you believe that bundle of cells is a baby. For me, and many others, its not a baby until it is born and breathing air on its own. That is when some of us believe it recieves a soul, the gift of God. Prior to that, its a bundle of cells. And don't bother lecturing me about child birth. I raised 7 children to adults, 3 of which are triplets, born 7 weeks pre mature. None of them where children until the doctor patted them on the bottom and they sucked in that first gulp of air as a mortal being.

Give this abortion topic a break. You will never get anyone to change there mind, and just engenders more and more desension.

It is way beyond a moral judgement, when 99% of the anti abortion people are using birth control and feel they are legal. Its still denying life,isn't it? If you take a moral stance, and feel a fetus is a child, then you are killing babies before they ever get a chance to be born, just to satisfy your primal lust and sexual gratification.

Check your moral compass on that one bubba!😉

You need to have a clearer definition on what life is and why we are here. From that, you may be able to glimpse at where you can be going, if you apply the Right principles in your daily life. But base it on fact from those in authority to know and give you knowledge. That generally comes from some lenghty time on your knees in prayer to the One who is in authority and has the knowledge. Its His plan , not mine.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: Nefrodite

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: Nefrodite

Originally posted by: Millenium

Originally posted by: Nefrodite

Originally posted by: Millenium

Originally posted by: minendo

Originally posted by: xospec1alk
i believe it is the choice of the mother
i think no one except the person actually carrying the baby should decide what is good for herself

What about the father? The child is technically half his in that he provided half. What if the mother does not want the child yet the father is ready to fully support the unborn child?

That is what I always said. Why doesn't the father have any say?

maybe in the future when with the aid of drugs and surgury men can carry children to term. then you can have say.

Maybe I don't like to kill innocent people. But hey if that is OK with you then whatever.

why? because your an all knowing god that can determine when life really starts? because you think that even killing say 12 cells into development is full out murder? since you aren't the authority on this, you leave judgement to yourself. your belief is more akin to religious then anything else. you can argue either way, which is why it should be left to the individual. you do what you do, and you let others do as they wish.


get off your high horse.

If scientists can date the universe, then I don't think you need to be god to determine when life begins.

i guess it went over your head when i said "when life really starts", not simply when life starts. ;roll just as i don't consider an egg half a human or a sperm half a human, i don't considered a simple fertilized egg a human. there is no scientific method for testing this, as there is no scientific method for assertaining whether there is a god. so don't go down that road.

No it didn't go over my head, and my statement is still valid, regardless of when "life starts" or when "life really starts". I agree that the egg nor the sperm is human life each in itself, but combined human life does start. Whether or not it looks like you or I is irrelevant, it is the beginning stage of human life. See, god didn't need to determine that for me. On a side not, I don't believe in god, but I do believe in the sanctity of innocent human life at whatever stage of development.

 

[WhiteKnight]

I used to be pro-life but I realized that whatever I believed, I didn't have the right to force those beliefs on somebody else. So while I wouldn't support an abortion by anyone I know, I guess I'm still pro-choice. I am not so closed minded to feel that everyone needs to have the same morals and beliefs that I do. So yeah... pro-choice.

Edit: That closed minded comment is not meant as an insult to anyone else, that's just how I feel about myself. Oh, something that really bothered me when I was pro-life were those people that picket out in front of clinics and on the street with those dead baby posters. I believe in freedom of speech and all, but I wish that they'd find a better way of expressing their views. I feel like they lose, rather than gain support with stuff like that.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Tripleshot

Let's punish the child and kill them for the mother's mistake.

That is an assumption that you believe that bundle of cells is a baby. For me, and many others, its not a baby until it is born and breathing air on its own. That is when some of us believe it recieves a soul, the gift of God. Prior to that, its a bundle of cells. And don't bother lecturing me about child birth. I raised 7 children to adults, 3 of which are triplets, born 7 weeks pre mature. None of them where children until the doctor patted them on the bottom and they sucked in that first gulp of air as a mortal being.

Give this abortion topic a break. You will never get anyone to change there mind, and just engenders more and more desension.

It is way beyond a moral judgement, when 99% of the anti abortion people are using birth control and feel they are legal. Its still denying life,isn't it? If you take a moral stance, and feel a fetus is a child, then you are killing babies before they ever get a chance to be born, just to satisfy your primal lust and sexual gratification.

Check your moral compass on that one bubba!😉

You need to have a clearer definition on what life is and why we are here. From that, you may be able to glimpse at where you can be going, if you apply the Right principles in your daily life. But base it on fact from those in authority to know and give you knowledge. That generally comes from some lenghty time on your knees in prayer to the One who is in authority and has the knowledge. Its His plan , not mine.

🙂

I was... 22 weeks premature. Barely breathed on my own for about three months. Still haven't figured out when I should have been considered a living being with a soul.

 

[amnesiac]

As deranged as it sounds, Cattlegod does have an interesting point.

With the advent of modern technology and medicine, human evolution has come to a standstill.
The way our society restructures and accepts the weak and inferior of our species, anyone who suffers from major physical or mental maladies has the same liberties as the strong and healthy, and many can even reproduce, which in some cases will transfer the same crippled genes.

Now, I'm not saying I agree with him, it's a kind of bizarre and rather ruthless way of thinking, but what DO we plan on doing with the future of our kind? We're doomed to eventual extinction if we don't adapt to our environment. Perhaps we shouldn't kill all the weaklings, but genetic modification might be a necessary step to take.. that way all the "inferior" beings are slowly phased out and evolution, while no longer natural and instead a technological bastardization of nature's course, can start again.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: amnesiac 2.0
As deranged as it sounds, Cattlegod does have an interesting point.

With the advent of modern technology and medicine, human evolution has come to a standstill.
The way our society restructures and accepts the weak and inferior of our species, anyone who suffers from major physical or mental maladies has the same liberties as the strong and healthy, and many can even reproduce, which in some cases will transfer the same crippled genes.

Now, I'm not saying I agree with him, it's a kind of bizarre and rather ruthless way of thinking, but what DO we plan on doing with the future of our kind? We're doomed to eventual extinction if we don't adapt to our environment. Perhaps we shouldn't kill all the weaklings, but genetic modification might be a necessary step to take.. that way all the "inferior" beings are slowly phased out and evolution, while no longer natural and instead a technological bastardization of nature's course, can start again.

It is an interesting way to think about it, I must admit.

 

[PlatinumGold]

As deranged as it sounds, Cattlegod does have an interesting point.

With the advent of modern technology and medicine, human evolution has come to a standstill.
The way our society restructures and accepts the weak and inferior of our species, anyone who suffers from major physical or mental maladies has the same liberties as the strong and healthy, and many can even reproduce, which in some cases will transfer the same crippled genes.

Now, I'm not saying I agree with him, it's a kind of bizarre and rather ruthless way of thinking, but what DO we plan on doing with the future of our kind? We're doomed to eventual extinction if we don't adapt to our environment. Perhaps we shouldn't kill all the weaklings, but genetic modification might be a necessary step to take.. that way all the "inferior" beings are slowly phased out and evolution, while no longer natural and instead a technological bastardization of nature's course, can start again

No, we still have survival of the fittest, we've just changed the parameters of what it means to be the fittest.

 

[gopunk]

should be legal
should be last resort
people that repeatedly make such mistakes and make little effort to use birth control should be forcefully sterilized


btw, all this stuff about sanctity of human life really rubs me the wrong way. what made us so freaking special? just because we're smarter and all that crap? i don't buy into it... all of god's (disclaimer: i'm atheist) creatures are equal, any "sanctity" is in the eye of the beholder, not a universal truth. not to hijack the thread 😉

 

[WhiteKnight]

Originally posted by: amnesiac 2.0
As deranged as it sounds, Cattlegod does have an interesting point.

With the advent of modern technology and medicine, human evolution has come to a standstill.
The way our society restructures and accepts the weak and inferior of our species, anyone who suffers from major physical or mental maladies has the same liberties as the strong and healthy, and many can even reproduce, which in some cases will transfer the same crippled genes.

Now, I'm not saying I agree with him, it's a kind of bizarre and rather ruthless way of thinking, but what DO we plan on doing with the future of our kind? We're doomed to eventual extinction if we don't adapt to our environment. Perhaps we shouldn't kill all the weaklings, but genetic modification might be a necessary step to take.. that way all the "inferior" beings are slowly phased out and evolution, while no longer natural and instead a technological bastardization of nature's course, can start again.

I was talking about that with my dad the other day when I was home for the weekend. It's like once society reaches a certain point evolution essentially ceases because we start protecting the weak. Also, anyone born with some really cool mutated eyes or something like that now would probably end up in a freak show instead of with all the babes. 😉

 

[Nefrodite]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: Nefrodite

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: Nefrodite

Originally posted by: Millenium

Originally posted by: Nefrodite

Originally posted by: Millenium

Originally posted by: minendo

Originally posted by: xospec1alk
i believe it is the choice of the mother
i think no one except the person actually carrying the baby should decide what is good for herself

What about the father? The child is technically half his in that he provided half. What if the mother does not want the child yet the father is ready to fully support the unborn child?

That is what I always said. Why doesn't the father have any say?

maybe in the future when with the aid of drugs and surgury men can carry children to term. then you can have say.

Maybe I don't like to kill innocent people. But hey if that is OK with you then whatever.

why? because your an all knowing god that can determine when life really starts? because you think that even killing say 12 cells into development is full out murder? since you aren't the authority on this, you leave judgement to yourself. your belief is more akin to religious then anything else. you can argue either way, which is why it should be left to the individual. you do what you do, and you let others do as they wish.


get off your high horse.

If scientists can date the universe, then I don't think you need to be god to determine when life begins.

i guess it went over your head when i said "when life really starts", not simply when life starts. ;roll just as i don't consider an egg half a human or a sperm half a human, i don't considered a simple fertilized egg a human. there is no scientific method for testing this, as there is no scientific method for assertaining whether there is a god. so don't go down that road.

No it didn't go over my head, and my statement is still valid, regardless of when "life starts" or when "life really starts". I agree that the egg nor the sperm is human life each in itself, but combined human life does start. Whether or not it looks like you or I is irrelevant, it is the beginning stage of human life. See, god didn't need to determine that for me. On a side not, I don't believe in god, but I do believe in the sanctity of innocent human life at whatever stage of development.

like it or not i can easily catagorize a sperm as half a human life if i wanted.

and you define it as fully human and worthy of all rights a human can have. then what about children. why can't they vote or do whatever they want. like it or not, we go through stages of development, and it is not for you to say whether stage 1 at 12 cells is sacred as 100,000. it cannot survive on its own, it has no capacity for real human thought, it can be said to be just a jumble of human cells. a potential human as it were. yet you see it as cut and dry, its not so simple.


if you are religious you believe what makes one human is a soul. thats why its ok to kill animals for sport, control, use, or simply to eat. but even thats fuzzy. when does a soul enter a human? when a baby is born? at the very momment of conception? anti abortionists of course think its at the very momment of conception. but then you have a problem. what happens when that egg splits into two a while later to become identical twins, or triplets? did said soul split twice or thrice? or did god say oopsie and tossed in a couple more after. what about all the natural miscarraiges, those souls got a raw deal eh?

With the advent of modern technology and medicine, human evolution has come to a standstill.

not really. we're still being killed by many an infectious desease, whether it be aids or something else. selective forces are still at work.

 

[TNTrulez]

My view: abortion is legal in all situations.

 

[Bluefront]

No one has any right what-so-ever to tell a woman what to do with her body. At any point in her life, should she require a medical procedure to be performed, it's her call alone.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: WhiteKnight
I used to be pro-life but I realized that whatever I believed, I didn't have the right to force those beliefs on somebody else. So while I wouldn't support an abortion by anyone I know, I guess I'm still pro-choice. I am not so closed minded to feel that everyone needs to have the same morals and beliefs that I do. So yeah... pro-choice.

I used to be anti-child abuse but I realized that whatever I believed, I didn't have the right to force those beliefs on somebody else. So while I wouldn't support a child beating by anyone I know, I guess I'm still pro-child abuse. I am not so closed minded to feel that everyone needs to have the same morals and beliefs that I do. So yeah . . . pro-child abuse.

See how stupid that sounds when you apply the same logic to similar moral situations? Although laws prohibiting the physical abuse of children trample all over a parent's right to raise his/her child as he/she sees fit, I still support anti-child abuse laws, because I consider protection of the child to be the greater moral good, and I recognize the State's right to protect the innocent and those unable to protect themselves. For these same reasons, I support the legal prohibition of abortion.

 

[WhiteKnight]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: WhiteKnight
I used to be pro-life but I realized that whatever I believed, I didn't have the right to force those beliefs on somebody else. So while I wouldn't support an abortion by anyone I know, I guess I'm still pro-choice. I am not so closed minded to feel that everyone needs to have the same morals and beliefs that I do. So yeah... pro-choice.

I used to be anti-child abuse but I realized that whatever I believed, I didn't have the right to force those beliefs on somebody else. So while I wouldn't support a child beating by anyone I know, I guess I'm still pro-child abuse. I am not so closed minded to feel that everyone needs to have the same morals and beliefs that I do. So yeah . . . pro-child abuse.

See how stupid that sounds when you apply the same logic to similar moral situations? Although laws prohibiting the physical abuse of children trample all over a parent's right to raise his/her child as he/she sees fit, I still support anti-child abuse laws, because I consider protection of the child to be the greater moral good, and I recognize the State's right to protect the innocent and those unable to protect themselves. For these same reasons, I support the legal prohibition of abortion.

You have a very valid point. I guess what I really mean to say is that when it comes to abortion that's my opinion. Abortion is a very controversial subject and I don't believe strongly enough that the moment of conception is truly the start of life. Obviously that's the crux of the issue. Biased or unreasonable as you may feel I am, an issue like child abuse is much more clear cut in my mind. The concept of when life begins requires a certain degree of faith, while something like child abuse seems to be more factual in nature.