dmcowen674
No Lifer
So you give the two cells rights immediately??? 😕
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Abortion thread:11-14-05 14 yr old Pa. Girl Missing After Parents Slain - Update: Found
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So you give the two cells rights immediately??? 😕
WingZero94
Golden Member
Yes. This is the point of no return.
dmcowen674
No Lifer
Bahahahahahaa Yes God, whatever you say God Bahahahahaha :laugh:
moshquerade
No Lifer
it was a biased report with various pro-abortion advocates, including the administrator of a UCSF abortion clinic, giving their interpretations of the data collected in the study.
WhipperSnapper
Lifer
What about a 2 day old embryo that doesn't even have a brain or a personality yet? Would it be murder to kill it? And why wouldn't that be a form of taking responsility? It would prevent the unwanted birth, yes? Therefore, having an abortion might well be a responsible and rational course of action.
The problem is that some people with cavemen philosophies believe that a magical God-being "breathes" a magical "soul" into the embryo cell mass at the time of conception. It is ver true that one man's insane religious mysticism is another man's hearty belly laugh, but sadly, in this case, the wacked-out religious belief can lead to national policies that would damage those of us who laugh at the cavemen; that is why we often despise them in these regards.
WhipperSnapper
Lifer
It's too bad that they won't just come out and tell us what their real reason is. I mean, how else could they claim that killing a two day old cell mass that doesn't have a brain nor personality could be murder? Ask them that question next time.
In the end, as much as they don't want to admit it and as much as they'll try to avoid it and turn themselves into rhetorical pretzels to try to avoid it, it comes down to their religious faith. I'd love to see the anti-abortionists come out and openly state that they believe that abortion is murder because their religion says so. At least then they would be honest. Instead of trying to explain why others should oppose abortion using nonsensical allegedly secular arguments,, they could say that other people should follow their religion and thus oppose abortion.
So often these debates devolve into the relgious wackos mouthing bromides that sound good, such as, "People need to take responsibility" without actually addressing the real underlying issues, such as whether or not it is really murder and whether or not fetuses have personalities and whether or not it would be morally good or bad to kill fetuses (and what standard of value makes it so and whether or not that standard of value is good). Of course, the pro-abortion people are equally guilty for not asking the tough questions and for not fleshing out the real issues.
WhipperSnapper
Lifer
But wait. Is a fetus really a child? Is a two-day old embryo the same as a child? Is there even a personality inside of the fetus? Is there any evidence at all to suggest that newborns have the ability to engage in the kind of abstract thinking needed to even have a personality? How can you murder a person that does not exist and that never existed?
Let me guess...a magic God-being "breathed" a "soul" into the ovum at the time of conception. So why not just come out and say that that's the reason abortion should be illegal instead of mouthing bromides about responsibility?
I'm glad that's its so painfully clear to you. In fact, you seem to be the only one who truly understands the real viewpoints of anti-abortion advocates. Everyone else must either be missing it or self-deluded.
:disgust:
I'll argue abortion with you all day and never say the word God.
dmcowen674
No Lifer
You heard them in here.
They said that once the two cells come together the cells have rights so it would be murder.
Doctors performing invitro infertilization kill thousands of people everyday because thousands of cells die after two have come together.
I never said that, and you do a disservice to all people when you lump people who hold a particular opinion (that second and third trimester abortions are murder) with those who believe that the murder of human cells, at all stages, are murder.
I don't even know why I bother with you, Dave, you've proven again and again that you're not willing or capable of holding a civil, intelligent discussion.
no, that isn't ok because the "somebody" you are killing is a person according to the law and killing a person is illegal.
a fetus is not a person, and terminating a fetus is legal.
different people have different ideas about responsible behavior. for the person getting an abortion, it is the responsible thing to terminate the fetus, before it has developed into an infant and person.
your morality is not a universal morality.
in my own opinion,
wrong = bringing a child into the world when you can't provide an adequate home for it, etc.
right = taking responsibility for what you have done, by scraping the small clump of cells out of one's uterus (should one decide to do so - it is after all the woman's choice) before that clump of cells develops into an infant and person.
Abortion is a lot like gay-marriage, you don't have to like it but you do have to live with it. It's an issuse that doesn't affect people or society to the point where it needs to be illegal. It doesn't violate any person's rights.
Personally, I feel that abortions shouldn't be performed after the 3rd trimester unless the womens life is at risk, then it should be optional. It's a good compromise for both sides, in my opinion.
As for the subject of infantide, I would hope society has progress to the point where this isn't needed. Unlike the greeks we know that leaving our childeren out in the rain doesn't toughen up our childeren or show the strong ones. As for childeren with serious mental and physical health issuses, in some circumstances I would turn around. I would refuse to have a child live in a constant hell, some indiviuals would be better off in another one. If you disagree me on this, I'd suggest you find the video about the "faceless" child, I would have absolutely no remorse sending that child to a much better place.
Personally, I feel that abortions shouldn't be performed after the 3rd trimester unless the womens life is at risk, then it should be optional. It's a good compromise for both sides, in my opinion.
As for the subject of infantide, I would hope society has progress to the point where this isn't needed. Unlike the greeks we know that leaving our childeren out in the rain doesn't toughen up our childeren or show the strong ones. As for childeren with serious mental and physical health issuses, in some circumstances I would turn around. I would refuse to have a child live in a constant hell, some indiviuals would be better off in another one. If you disagree me on this, I'd suggest you find the video about the "faceless" child, I would have absolutely no remorse sending that child to a much better place.
I stand by my statements. A biased review of scientific data is no substitute for the cold hard facts. And taken straight from the news site....
When doctors operate on fetuses to correct defects before birth, general anesthesia is given to the mother primarily to immobilize the fetus and to make the uterus relax. Anesthesia during fetal surgery increases the mother's risks for breathing problems and bleeding from a relaxed uterus, the researchers said.
Rosen said those risks are medically acceptable when the goal is to save the fetus but there is not enough evidence to show any benefit from fetus-directed anesthesia during an abortion.
Administering anesthesia directly to the fetus is also sometimes done but generally to reduce the release of potentially harmful fetal stress hormones, Rosen said. There is little research on its effects.
But Anand said the study's authors excluded or minimized evidence suggesting fetal pain sensation begins in the second trimester and wrongly assume that fetuses' brains sense pain in the same way as adult brains.
While Anand has testified as an expert witness for the government in court cases opposing some late-term abortions, he said he is not anti-abortion and that his views are based on years of fetal pain research.
imported_Condor
Diamond Member
If anything can be judged by the volume of the whine, libs either start feeling pain a lot earlier than that or they are powerful jet engines revved for the launch. I'm betting on the early pain thing.
Powermoloch
Lifer
abortion tickles..j/k 🙁 !!!
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