Abortion thread:11-14-05 14 yr old Pa. Girl Missing After Parents Slain - Update: Found

[dmcowen674]

I put this in here because all I could think of is the morality police are to blame for this in this Country.

This is squarely the Republicans fault:

11-14-2005 14 yr old Pa. Girl Missing After Parents Slain

LITITZ, Pa. - A 14-year-old girl was missing after her parents were shot to death in their home Sunday morning, and authorities issued an arrest warrant for an 18-year-old believed to be her boyfriend.

We think they're boyfriend and girlfriend," Seace said. "The young girl was out during the night, came home, and her parents confronted her. From what we understand, he came to the house."

Stephanie Mannon, a 16-year-old friend who had worked with Ludwig, said he and Kara had been seeing each other secretly.

"Their parents didn't approve of them being together" because of the age difference, she said. "It wasn't because he was a shady character, because he wasn't."


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Scientists say Fetuses May Not Feel Pain in Early Months 8-23-05

But this flies in the face of the anti-abortion folks.

You see if they shoot a bullet into theiir foot they would feel pain just as they have claimed that fetuses feel pain.

But there in lies the rub, you see Scientists have determined that fetuses most likely do not feel pain until late in the pregnancy.

The only pain experienced is the lack of control that the anti-abortion folks feel when they lose the ability to control the lives of women.

When will Americans wake up and stop the crusade for the cells?

8-23-2005 Fetuses May Not Feel Pain in Early Months

CHICAGO - A review of medical evidence has found that fetuses likely don't feel pain until the final months of pregnancy, a powerful challenge to abortion opponents who hope that discussions about fetal pain will make women think twice about ending pregnancies.

 

[AntaresVI]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Well this shoots the anti-abortion folks in the foot.

You see if they shoot a bullet into theiir foot they would feel pain just as they have claimed that fetuses feel pain.

But there in lies the rub, you see Scientists have determined that fetuses most likely do not feel pain until late in the pregnancy.

The only pain experienced is the lack of control that the anti-abortion folks feel when they lose the ability to control the lives of women.

When will Americans wake up and stop the crusade for the cells?

8-23-2005 Fetuses May Not Feel Pain in Early Months

CHICAGO - A review of medical evidence has found that fetuses likely don't feel pain until the final months of pregnancy, a powerful challenge to abortion opponents who hope that discussions about fetal pain will make women think twice about ending pregnancies.

Dave, I support much of the notion of stem cell research, but you cant's possibly be equating the ability to feel pain with humanity, can you?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: AntaresVI
Dave, I support much of the notion of stem cell research, but you cant's possibly be equating the ability to feel pain with humanity, can you?

You're right, humanity is much too painful.

 

[WingZero94]

So if I kill somebody in their sleep..... and they don't feel it then that makes it A OK...... How about TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS PEOPLE!!! This no-fault freedom attitude that liberals spout is a bunch of hogs wash.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: WingZero94

How about TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS PEOPLE!!!

They are taking responsibility for their actions, fundies are stoping them.

 

[Whaspe]

Looks all the "researchers" did was read a bunch and then publish whatever they felt like publishing. As the very end of the article states, they assume too much.

Also, their was no scientific experiment done, only reading of what's already out there. Show us the scientific proof... not your opinion on it.

 

[WingZero94]

Taking responsibility for your actions means if you create a life because you were messing around, whether you planned it or not, you are bound to that life. The other attitude is similiar to saying if you kill somebody.... just make sure and bury it so nobody else knows about it. Just because you have created a life doesn't give you the right to destroy it.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: WingZero94
So if I kill somebody in their sleep..... and they don't feel it then that makes it A OK...... How about TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS PEOPLE!!! This no-fault freedom attitude that liberals spout is a bunch of hogs wash.

I think you need to change your name from 'wingzero94' to 'wingnut94'

 

[WingZero94]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: WingZero94
So if I kill somebody in their sleep..... and they don't feel it then that makes it A OK...... How about TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS PEOPLE!!! This no-fault freedom attitude that liberals spout is a bunch of hogs wash.

I think you need to change your name from 'wingzero94' to 'wingnut94'

Perhaps.... but if its wingzero or wingnut it's not going to change what is right and wrong. Wrong = running from responsibilities by ending a perfectly good life. Right = taking responsibility for what you have done. Heck, give the child up for adoption... there are plenty of families that can't get preggers these days. Perhaps experiencing life instead of death will do something good for these people.

 

[Whaspe]

Originally posted by: WingZero94
Taking responsibility for your actions means if you create a life because you were messing around, whether you planned it or not, you are bound to that life. The other attitude is similiar to saying if you kill somebody.... just make sure and bury it so nobody else knows about it. Just because you have created a life doesn't give you the right to destroy it.

SSSHHHH!!! this train of thought isn't popular right now. People don't want to be responsible.

 

[johnnobts]

But there in lies the rub, you see Scientists have determined that fetuses most likely do not feel pain until late in the pregnancy.

The only pain experienced is the lack of control that the anti-abortion folks feel when they lose the ability to control the lives of women.

When will Americans wake up and stop the crusade for the cells?
__________________________

first, did you read about a recent breakthrough concerning stem cells, that it seems it is possible to create stem cells from skin cells? sorry, no link handy, do a search on it.

as for the whole "fetuses probably don't feel pain" therefore we shouldn't feel bad about terminating them, its a paper tiger. if the ability to feel physical pain is what defines a person as living or not living, then tell that to all the paralyzed people. pro-abortion "scientists" are trying to use the painlessness possibility as a defense for abortion, b/c they know that they don't have a biological leg to stand on concerning other major issues pertaining to the fetus, such as a fetus having brain waves, and a heartbeat, things that doctors have traditionally used to determine life in the case of patients, not a patients "feelings" about pain. moreover, if we are going to be a humane civilization, is it not better to err on the side of life, presuming that there is a possibility that they do feel pain?

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Whaspe

Originally posted by: WingZero94
Taking responsibility for your actions means if you create a life because you were messing around, whether you planned it or not, you are bound to that life. The other attitude is similiar to saying if you kill somebody.... just make sure and bury it so nobody else knows about it. Just because you have created a life doesn't give you the right to destroy it.

SSSHHHH!!! this train of thought isn't popular right now. People don't want to be responsible.

You mean like a certain president who won't take responsibility for lying and fvcking up a war? Yeah, there's certainly some truth in that.

 

[WingZero94]

Originally posted by: Whaspe

Originally posted by: WingZero94
Taking responsibility for your actions means if you create a life because you were messing around, whether you planned it or not, you are bound to that life. The other attitude is similiar to saying if you kill somebody.... just make sure and bury it so nobody else knows about it. Just because you have created a life doesn't give you the right to destroy it.

SSSHHHH!!! this train of thought isn't popular right now. People don't want to be responsible.

Heh, you're right. Liberals want their no-fault freedoms..... if it doesn't hurt anybody directly, then it is ok.... that kind of backwards thinking is not only destructive to communities, it is to our very way of life.

 

[WingZero94]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Whaspe

Originally posted by: WingZero94
Taking responsibility for your actions means if you create a life because you were messing around, whether you planned it or not, you are bound to that life. The other attitude is similiar to saying if you kill somebody.... just make sure and bury it so nobody else knows about it. Just because you have created a life doesn't give you the right to destroy it.

SSSHHHH!!! this train of thought isn't popular right now. People don't want to be responsible.

You mean like a certain president who won't take responsibility for lying and fvcking up a war? Yeah, there's certainly some truth in that.

Nobody is talking about the war here buddy.

 

[Orsorum]

I was born at 5 3/4 months and I'm pretty sure I felt pain, though life was a blur up until about 4 years.

 

[Whaspe]

Originally posted by: Orsorum
I was born at 5 3/4 months and I'm pretty sure I felt pain, though life was a blur up until about 4 years.

So you're disputing science?

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: johnnobts
...
The only pain experienced is the lack of control that the anti-abortion folks feel when they lose the ability to control the lives of women.
...

You see, its all in the framing, you say "controlling the lives of women" whereas the opposition calls it "protecting a human life" THERES the rub, you just frame it so you feel better about it.

Go look up the political think tank that came up with the idea in the 1920's of making abortion socially acceptable. You might be surprised as to what else they were doing, their reasoning behind it, and what eventually became of this think tank.

 

[WingZero94]

Folks the fact that somebody does or doesn't feel pain while you are killing them does not make it right. No, we as a society... i'm sorry, some of society has come to accept that aborting a live fetus is ok and this is quite disturbing. Every child is precious and deserves a chance to live.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Whaspe

Originally posted by: Orsorum
I was born at 5 3/4 months and I'm pretty sure I felt pain, though life was a blur up until about 4 years.

So you're disputing science?

:roll: This is not a scientific study, this is a meta-study of various other studies that were conducted. I do not know these particular authors' particular methodology in selecting their research aside from the general idea of a meta-study, but they appear to have some incentive to ensure repeat business in the market for abortions.

To state that I'm disputing "science" because I disagree with the results of one controversial meta-study is asinine.

"They have literally stuck their hands into a hornet's nest," said Dr. Kanwaljeet Anand, a fetal pain researcher at the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, who believes fetuses as young as 20 weeks old feel pain. "This is going to inflame a lot of scientists who are very, very concerned and are far more knowledgeable in this area than the authors appear to be. This is not the last word ? definitely not."

Anand, the researcher from Arkansas, said the authors excluded or minimized evidence suggesting fetal pain sensation begins in the second trimester and wrongly assume that fetuses' brains sense pain in the same way as adult brains.

Of course, I'm sure that Anand has his own motivations.

In either case, I'll wait to see what studies and criticisms come as a result of this article's publishing before I hold it up as a green light for second-trimester abortions.

 

[glenn1]

While I don't agree with their views, I don't think I've ever seen a pro-lifer use fetal pain as a main argument for their anti-abortion position. That someone would use this finding as a pro-choice argument makes me wonder what planet they live on. While the majority of Americans support choice, citing a study like this and following it up by saying things like "the only pain experienced is the lack of control that the anti-abortion folks feel when they lose the ability to control the lives of women" is going to make most people think that you're a goddamn sociopath.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: glenn1
While I don't agree with their views, I don't think I've ever seen a pro-lifer use fetal pain as a main argument for their anti-abortion position. That someone would use this finding as a pro-choice argument makes me wonder what planet they live on. While the majority of Americans support choice, citing a study like this and following it up by saying things like "the only pain experienced is the lack of control that the anti-abortion folks feel when they lose the ability to control the lives of women" is going to make most people think that you're a goddamn sociopath.

Most people here don't think dave is a "goddamn sociopath." They know it.

 

[homercles337]

Pain is a construct experienced by the cortex. The cortex does not show ANY signs of activity until late in the third trimester. Its physiologically impossible for a fetus (or anyone) to feel pain with no active neocortex.

 

[0roo0roo]

yup. if the fundies knew anything about development they wouldn't gripe so much. no brain no pain. abortion pill? no brain at all

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: AntaresVI
Dave, I support much of the notion of stem cell research, but you cant's possibly be equating the ability to feel pain with humanity, can you?

You're right, humanity is much too painful.

I can see why you think it's painful. Unlike people like you, there are people in the world with a positive outlook on life. You might wanna check it out, it's refreshing to not be depressed and down on everything all the time.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
yup. if the fundies knew anything about development they wouldn't gripe so much. no brain no pain. abortion pill? no brain at all

Care to enlighten me?

<--- not a fundie, not religious, but anti-abortion