Abortion puzzles me

[iamtrout]

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze
How would YOU like it if your parents had chosen to abort you?

I wouldn't give a sh!t. Think about it...

 

[Hyperblaze]

Originally posted by: iamtrout

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze
How would YOU like it if your parents had chosen to abort you?

I wouldn't give a sh!t. Think about it...

So you wouldn't want to live? You wouldn't want to experience life? You wouldn't mind
killing yourself right now?

 

[iamtrout]

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze

Originally posted by: iamtrout

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze
How would YOU like it if your parents had chosen to abort you?

I wouldn't give a sh!t. Think about it...

So you wouldn't want to live? You wouldn't want to experience life? You wouldn't mind
killing yourself right now?

Uhhh... I would mind NOW since I've had life experiences. But to superimpose life experiences onto something that has never existed in the first place and to conclude that this non-existent entity would mind not existing is flawed reasoning.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze
Abortion = Murder

Pro-Life = Giving Life

Pro-Choice = Poor Choice

There are consequences to every action you do.

I have heard of folks who have been raped and still give birth and give up baby for adoption.

They say that 1 in 4 babies are aborted. How would YOU like it if your parents had chosen to abort you?

edit: I have no problems telling a smoker he's putting another nail in the coffin by smoking a cig.

and I'd have no problems telling a girl who had an abortion that she's a murderer.

Opinions are nice.. everyone has them. Opinions of the majority of America disagree with you.

You = on the losing side

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze

Originally posted by: iamtrout

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze
How would YOU like it if your parents had chosen to abort you?

I wouldn't give a sh!t. Think about it...

So you wouldn't want to live? You wouldn't want to experience life? You wouldn't mind
killing yourself right now?

He wouldn't know, brainiac, because he wasn't capable of thinking as a fetus...

 

[SampSon]

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze
Abortion = Murder

Pro-Life = Giving Life

Pro-Choice = Poor Choice

There are consequences to every action you do.

I have heard of folks who have been raped and still give birth and give up baby for adoption.

They say that 1 in 4 babies are aborted. How would YOU like it if your parents had chosen to abort you?

edit: I have no problems telling a smoker he's putting another nail in the coffin by smoking a cig.

and I'd have no problems telling a girl who had an abortion that she's a murderer.

Tell me how I can be as badass as you.
Have you written a self-help book? I'd love to know the title so I can pick it up and really hone my badassery skills.

 

[Hyperblaze]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze
Abortion = Murder

Pro-Life = Giving Life

Pro-Choice = Poor Choice

There are consequences to every action you do.

I have heard of folks who have been raped and still give birth and give up baby for adoption.

They say that 1 in 4 babies are aborted. How would YOU like it if your parents had chosen to abort you?

edit: I have no problems telling a smoker he's putting another nail in the coffin by smoking a cig.

and I'd have no problems telling a girl who had an abortion that she's a murderer.

Opinions are nice.. everyone has them. Opinions of the majority of America disagree with you.

You = on the losing side

Fortunately, more Canadians agree with me. Hell, if half the population of the US voted for Bush, you really gotta wonder where their brains are anyways....

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze
Abortion = Murder

Pro-Life = Giving Life

Pro-Choice = Poor Choice

There are consequences to every action you do.

I have heard of folks who have been raped and still give birth and give up baby for adoption.

They say that 1 in 4 babies are aborted. How would YOU like it if your parents had chosen to abort you?

edit: I have no problems telling a smoker he's putting another nail in the coffin by smoking a cig.

and I'd have no problems telling a girl who had an abortion that she's a murderer.

Tell me how I can be as badass as you.
Have you written a self-help book? I'd love to know the title so I can pick it up and really hone my badassery skills.

Dude, he has HEARD of girls who were raped and still had kids! He is obviously very very knowledgeable!

 

[SampSon]

Fortunately, more Canadians agree with me. Hell, if half the population of the US voted for Bush, you really gotta wonder where their brains are anyways....

The truly important politics in America are local politics. Canada is much too small to understand that.

 

[Hyperblaze]

Originally posted by: iamtrout

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze

Originally posted by: iamtrout

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze
How would YOU like it if your parents had chosen to abort you?

I wouldn't give a sh!t. Think about it...

So you wouldn't want to live? You wouldn't want to experience life? You wouldn't mind
killing yourself right now?

Uhhh... I would mind NOW since I've had life experiences. But to superimpose life experiences onto something that has never existed in the first place and to conclude that this non-existent entity would mind not existing is flawed reasoning.

so you wouldn't mind a baby to not be able to experience these wonderful things in life?

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze

Originally posted by: iamtrout

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze

Originally posted by: iamtrout

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze
How would YOU like it if your parents had chosen to abort you?

I wouldn't give a sh!t. Think about it...

So you wouldn't want to live? You wouldn't want to experience life? You wouldn't mind
killing yourself right now?

Uhhh... I would mind NOW since I've had life experiences. But to superimpose life experiences onto something that has never existed in the first place and to conclude that this non-existent entity would mind not existing is flawed reasoning.

so you wouldn't mind a baby to not be able to experience these wonderful things in life?

a non-existent thing cannot have anything to 'mind' about.

 

[Hyperblaze]

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze

Originally posted by: iamtrout

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze

Originally posted by: iamtrout

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze
How would YOU like it if your parents had chosen to abort you?

I wouldn't give a sh!t. Think about it...

So you wouldn't want to live? You wouldn't want to experience life? You wouldn't mind
killing yourself right now?

Uhhh... I would mind NOW since I've had life experiences. But to superimpose life experiences onto something that has never existed in the first place and to conclude that this non-existent entity would mind not existing is flawed reasoning.

so you wouldn't mind a baby to not be able to experience these wonderful things in life?

a non-existent thing cannot have anything to 'mind' about.

You call a living organism a non-existent thing?

Before you say something...I recommend you actually read up on othe topic at hand. You'd be amazed at the things you might learn.

 

[TheTurk]

War Puzzles me....

 

[Brazen]

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze

Originally posted by: iamtrout

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze

Originally posted by: iamtrout

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze
How would YOU like it if your parents had chosen to abort you?

I wouldn't give a sh!t. Think about it...

So you wouldn't want to live? You wouldn't want to experience life? You wouldn't mind
killing yourself right now?

Uhhh... I would mind NOW since I've had life experiences. But to superimpose life experiences onto something that has never existed in the first place and to conclude that this non-existent entity would mind not existing is flawed reasoning.

so you wouldn't mind a baby to not be able to experience these wonderful things in life?

a non-existent thing cannot have anything to 'mind' about.

non-existent? I believe the whole issue here is that it DOES exist (it, as in the fetus).

 

[Brazen]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: Brazen

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: Trevelyan

Originally posted by: Boztech
If your wife was drugged, raped, and became pregnant, would you really want her to carry out the term of her pregnancy?

Or if she was a juvenile diabetic and had about a 90% chance of kidney failure or going into DKA during birth and dieing or having other very serious complications with birth?

Honestly, and I know this is easy for me to say, because it hasn't happened to me...

My reaction would first be extreme anger at the person who did this to my wife. The process of forgiving that person would be a long road. I would probably be extremely depressed and horrified for quite some time, and would have some long, tear-filled talks with God.

But, I would still believe the right thing to do would be to keep the baby. This child growing inside my wife would not be guilty because of his father... this child would still be innocent, and to kill him for my sake or my wife's sake would be selfish, and wrong.

I would probably think it my right to take that life, considering the extreme trauma that was endured. But that would not be so.

The rape would be the tragedy, but the child does not have to be.

*in the distance, the singing of angels could be heard...*


Such a saintly statement.

YOUR right to take that life? In that hypothetical situation you wouldn't be subject to any of the real consequences (other than the obvious empathy you would feel towards your wife). Not the rape, not the bearing of a child or the constant reminder that her swelling belly and rapidly changing body chemistry were the result of a most-likely violent and brutal encounter with a man she didn't know. Yet you presume to make this choice for her.

As you said you might feel it "my right to take that life". You make no mention of your wife's feelings other than some vague mention of "extreme trauma that was endured".

And you end with the grand finale "But that would not be so". I am correct in assuming that you were the only one posting right? Seems to me that you just made a decision for someone else, if only in a hypothetical situation.


Make no mistake I think abortion is horrible. The first time I heard a description of a partial birth abortion I expressed nothing but frank disbelief, and after learning about the other methods I am equally disgusted by them. There is one thing that I won't do however, and that's to impose my "better judgement" on others.


This is a central point in the pro-choice mindset IMO. Currently we have the freedom to make mistakes and learn from them; to succeed and prosper because of the lessons we learned in life. We are the results of our successes and failures, our good decisions and our mistakes. The only thing that can stop us is to eliminate our choices. Even though some think that the legal avenues that are available to us are immoral or even evil, there is never a good reason to impose your "better judgement" on anyone else.

LOL, definately spoken like an unmarried person! You are busy arguing semantics, when I can tell you as a husband, it is obvious he was meaning making the choice together, with his wife, they way a couple with a healthy relationship should. Ironically enough though, you made a very powerful pro-life statement there: "there is never a good reason to impose your "better judgement" on anyone else." Of course this would also include babies in the womb.

In fact, that entire last paragraph is very good reasons for why abortions is so wrong. After reading it, it makes me a little angry at how people could just take that away from those aborted babies.

That is not a powerful pro-life statement because it would not include "babies in the womb" since I am sure he(along with I, for that matter, and many pro-choice people) do not consider a fetus to be a baby. You didn't seriously believe that when you typed that, right?

Why do people always insist on arguing semantics?! It is so pointless and dull. Replace the word "baby" with "fetus" then. It doesn't change anything. The argument is still the same, and it still angers me that people would take the choice away from a helpless unborn baby (or fetus, if you want to call it that - Christ's sakes, arguing semantics is so retarded!).

 

[Brazen]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: Brazen

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: Trevelyan

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: Trevelyan

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Tell you what, you worry about yourself and stop carring about what the rest of us do to other people mmmkay?

It's really none of your business.

Fixed.

See, that's the problem with that line of thinking. It totally assumes that abortion affects only the mother. It doesn't consider the child being aborted. It sidesteps the real issue.

Does it effect you?

I don't want murderers running around, but not just because I don't want to be killed by them.

Sweet! Apples and oranges! I like apples and oranges.

Oh yes, compairing murder to murder and murderers to murderers, oh yeah, the whole apples and oranges sidestep sound _really_ intelligent there.

It isn't comparing murderers to murderers because many people, if not most, do not consider a fetus to be a living human... therefore, these people, do not consider it murder. I could go around saying that you are murdering weeds when you pull them out of your backyard... and then say that if we don't allow murder of humans, we can't allow murder of weeds... Then I could say it is comparing murderers to murderers, like you...

Um, weeds aren't human.

 

[Brazen]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: Brazen

Originally posted by: kt

Originally posted by: Brazen

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Tell you what, you worry about yourself and stop carring about what the rest of us do mmmkay?

It's really none of your business.

:thumbsup:

That is such a rediculous statement, and only made by simpletons and dullards. By your own statement, you too would in fact be encroaching on what is "none of your business."

And if we really did follow that kind of logic, then we would not have laws or law enforcement at all since if it didn't happen to them (them as in cops and lawmakers) then it would be "none of their business" to get involved in.

Way to generalize a statement. And if you are going to use an example to generalize a statement, at least do it right. The business of cops and lawmakers IS to enforce the law. So it is THEIR business to get involved if a law is broken.

Yes, that is EXACTLY right, and in a democracy, it is up to the people to decide what those laws should be. Whether it be laws regarding stealing, or laws regarding killing, etc.

edit: ok, I realize there are some here who will probably not get what I was talking about here, so I will go ahead and point it out now, that I am talking about how it is "our business" because it is our responsibility to determine what abortion laws should be (that was a little bonus for you, nakedfrog ), just like it is the cops jobs to enforce those laws. Also thinks for really driving my point home, kt.

Majority of the people in this country support abortion...

Um, ok. *shrugs*

 

[iamtrout]

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze

Originally posted by: iamtrout

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze

Originally posted by: iamtrout

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze
How would YOU like it if your parents had chosen to abort you?

I wouldn't give a sh!t. Think about it...

So you wouldn't want to live? You wouldn't want to experience life? You wouldn't mind
killing yourself right now?

Uhhh... I would mind NOW since I've had life experiences. But to superimpose life experiences onto something that has never existed in the first place and to conclude that this non-existent entity would mind not existing is flawed reasoning.

so you wouldn't mind a baby to not be able to experience these wonderful things in life?

Well, it going back to the argument of when a baby is really a baby. Killing a baby when it's out of the womb is morally deviant, as many will probably agree. But what about as an embryo? What about the day after pill? Which trimester? Hell, what about condoms?

Not to mention the fact that every baby born into this world puts more strain onto the environment, both natural and societal. Any human being will by its very nature use magnitudes more resources and produce magnitudes more waste than any wild creature, without contributing nearly as much back to the world that begot it in the first place. As for society, all babies have enormous potential to wreck havok upon society, even more so if they are raised in the presence of unprepared parents like teenage mothers, immature couples, or parental units that have split up.

The point is that a baby who was not aborted may one day wish he or she HAD BEEN. Or perhaps someone else will wish this for them.

We do not live in a world of "potential" and emotion. We live in a world of consequences. Logic. Physical limitations and limited supplies. To grant life to any and every human embryo is asking for absolute disaster.

 

[Hyperblaze]

Originally posted by: iamtrout

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze

Originally posted by: iamtrout

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze

Originally posted by: iamtrout

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze
How would YOU like it if your parents had chosen to abort you?

I wouldn't give a sh!t. Think about it...

So you wouldn't want to live? You wouldn't want to experience life? You wouldn't mind
killing yourself right now?

Uhhh... I would mind NOW since I've had life experiences. But to superimpose life experiences onto something that has never existed in the first place and to conclude that this non-existent entity would mind not existing is flawed reasoning.

so you wouldn't mind a baby to not be able to experience these wonderful things in life?

Well, it going back to the argument of when a baby is really a baby. Killing a baby when it's out of the womb is morally deviant, as many will probably agree. But what about as an embryo? What about the day after pill? Which trimester? Hell, what about condoms?

Not to mention the fact that every baby born into this world puts more strain onto the environment, both natural and societal. Any human being will by its very nature use magnitudes more resources and produce magnitudes more waste than any wild creature, without contributing nearly as much back to the world that begot it in the first place. As for society, all babies have enormous potential to wreck havok upon society, even more so if they are raised in the presence of unprepared parents like teenage mothers, immature couples, or parental units that have split up.

The point is that a baby who was not aborted may one day wish he or she HAD BEEN. Or perhaps someone else will wish this for them.

We do not live in a world of "potential" and emotion. We live in a world of consequences. Logic. Physical limitations and limited supplies. To grant life to any and every human embryo is asking for absolute disaster.

I guess then folks having sex should be more careful.

If they aren't ready for a child, make sure to take the necassarily pre-cautions BEFORE the sperm fertalizies the egg.

 

[sandorski]

Pro Choice---allow women to determine whether a Fetus should be brought to term
Pro Life---Force women to bring a Fetus to term
Pro Abortion---Force women not to bring a Fetus to term

Clarifications.

 

[Nightfall]

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze

Originally posted by: iamtrout

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze

Originally posted by: iamtrout

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze

Originally posted by: iamtrout

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze
How would YOU like it if your parents had chosen to abort you?

I wouldn't give a sh!t. Think about it...

So you wouldn't want to live? You wouldn't want to experience life? You wouldn't mind
killing yourself right now?

Uhhh... I would mind NOW since I've had life experiences. But to superimpose life experiences onto something that has never existed in the first place and to conclude that this non-existent entity would mind not existing is flawed reasoning.

so you wouldn't mind a baby to not be able to experience these wonderful things in life?

Well, it going back to the argument of when a baby is really a baby. Killing a baby when it's out of the womb is morally deviant, as many will probably agree. But what about as an embryo? What about the day after pill? Which trimester? Hell, what about condoms?

Not to mention the fact that every baby born into this world puts more strain onto the environment, both natural and societal. Any human being will by its very nature use magnitudes more resources and produce magnitudes more waste than any wild creature, without contributing nearly as much back to the world that begot it in the first place. As for society, all babies have enormous potential to wreck havok upon society, even more so if they are raised in the presence of unprepared parents like teenage mothers, immature couples, or parental units that have split up.

The point is that a baby who was not aborted may one day wish he or she HAD BEEN. Or perhaps someone else will wish this for them.

We do not live in a world of "potential" and emotion. We live in a world of consequences. Logic. Physical limitations and limited supplies. To grant life to any and every human embryo is asking for absolute disaster.

I guess then folks having sex should be more careful.

If they aren't ready for a child, make sure to take the necassarily pre-cautions BEFORE the sperm fertalizies the egg.

21 pages of replies, and this happens to be the best. Unfortunately, common sense isn't so common. You would think people would think about this before having unprotected sex. As it is, they don't.

BTW....Pro Choice here. I know there isn't anyway I am changing anyone's mind about this and vice versa.

Just close this thread already.

 

[Hyperblaze]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Pro Choice---allow women to determine whether a Fetus should be brought to term
Pro Life---Force women to bring a Fetus to term
Pro Abortion---Force women not to bring a Fetus to term

Clarifications.

# In abortion, no one is hurt since the fetus is not a person.

1. This is simply begging the question. You assume it isn't human, even though it is alive and has human DNA, and then pass judgment that it is not a person.
2. The fetus is alive and death injures it.
3. The fetus has the nature of a human and is injured by killing it by scraping, ripping, and/or sucking its brains out as late term abortions are sometimes done.
4. Then that means the mother has no feelings about the life that has been removed from her womb, that wonderful place that only a woman in her nature has.
1. Does this really leave the woman uninjured? Countless women are psychologically harmed when they kill the child in their womb.


http://www.carm.org/questions/abortion.htm

 

[linkgoron]

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze

Originally posted by: iamtrout

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze

Originally posted by: iamtrout

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze
How would YOU like it if your parents had chosen to abort you?

I wouldn't give a sh!t. Think about it...

So you wouldn't want to live? You wouldn't want to experience life? You wouldn't mind
killing yourself right now?

Uhhh... I would mind NOW since I've had life experiences. But to superimpose life experiences onto something that has never existed in the first place and to conclude that this non-existent entity would mind not existing is flawed reasoning.

so you wouldn't mind a baby to not be able to experience these wonderful things in life?

a non-existent thing cannot have anything to 'mind' about.

You call a living organism a non-existent thing?

Before you say something...I recommend you actually read up on othe topic at hand. You'd be amazed at the things you might learn.

Your argument is flawed. Using condoms and pills is just the same as abortion in the sense that a baby would be born if you wouldn't use them, and they would "Experiance life", and all that. Is preventing something from living the same as killing it? You decide, but abortion is ok in my book as long as it's before the brain starts working (or rape and stuff like that)

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze

Originally posted by: iamtrout

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze

Originally posted by: iamtrout

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze
How would YOU like it if your parents had chosen to abort you?

I wouldn't give a sh!t. Think about it...

So you wouldn't want to live? You wouldn't want to experience life? You wouldn't mind
killing yourself right now?

Uhhh... I would mind NOW since I've had life experiences. But to superimpose life experiences onto something that has never existed in the first place and to conclude that this non-existent entity would mind not existing is flawed reasoning.

so you wouldn't mind a baby to not be able to experience these wonderful things in life?

a non-existent thing cannot have anything to 'mind' about.

You call a living organism a non-existent thing?

Before you say something...I recommend you actually read up on othe topic at hand. You'd be amazed at the things you might learn.

You're way late to the discussion. Scroll back a couple tens of pages. Rather than dismiss my knowledge of the subject, maybe you should put forth an argument of your own.

A fetus is not a baby. For much of even the 2nd trimester it lacks any brain function. It is not a human being.

 

[Mean MrMustard]

Originally posted by: bigdog1218

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Tell you what, you worry about yourself and stop carring about what the rest of us do mmmkay?

It's really none of your business.

So how's your Anti-SUV brigade doing? Staying out of peoples business? Hypocrites aren't really worth much in any conversation.

Okay, stop right there...

You can be pro or anti anything. It's when you bring the government into the picture that you're forcing your view on others. I seriously doubt he is lobbying the gov't to ban SUV's.

Arkitech, totally agree with you, people today choose not to take responsibility for their actions and find it easier to pass them on to someone else. Someone who supports abortion is just saying they they shouldn't be responsible for the choices they make in life. They made bad choices that they led them into a situation, and then use the 1st amendment as an excuse so they can get rid of their problem.

1st Amendment? WTF are you talking about? Do you even know what the 1st Amendment is? Here's a hint: look up 4th Amendment.

Then, like amicold and SLCentral, they call it a fetus or an embryo because it makes them feel better that their killing nothing, rather than a human being. They come up with absurd reasons to try to justify that they support killing humans. It's a little weird that a baby born at 9 months wasn't a human at 7 months, but a baby born at 7 months is a human. Then they spit out reasons of umbilical cords, sentient life, the babys location, clawing for anything so they can get rid of that responsiblity that they're too scared, or not ready to have.

Then, they cry that even birth control methods don't always work because that's easier then saying, I made the choice to have sex and I'll deal with the responsiblities because of that choice. Instead of actually having reasons fo an abortion, it's just a bunch of excuses so they can live their selfish, irresponsible lives without having the guilt of killing a human.

The fact of the matter is, if you don't give people the choice over their own bodies, you give the gov't that choice. Plain and simple. Do you like a nanny state?

The antichoicers would be wise to spend their time and money on sex education and birth control. That would/has cut down on abortions over the years. But alas, the most vocal abortion critics support abstinence-only education.



<---Pro-choice, anti-abortion