Ab workout that is easy on the lower back?

[silverpig]

So I've been hitting the gym pretty regularly for a while now and am definitely seeing the results. My workout routine is 30 minutes of intense cardio, some weights (targeting varies and rotates), then abs.

I want to keep doing the abs every day, but it seems the ab exercises I do are pretty hard on my lower back and it is getting sore in a bad way. Do you guys have any recommendations for ab workouts that are easy on the lower back so I can give it a bit of a break while still working my abs?

 

[dealmaster00]

It might be a good idea to not specifically hit your abs every workout. Give them a chance to rest by exercising them every other workout or something to that effect.

 

[brikis98]

What are your goals? Why are you working your abs every day? What exercise are you doing now that is hurting your back?

 

[silverpig]

So I'm 6'3" and was at 206 lbs at new year's. I'm down to 193 now. I don't want to get big or anything, I just want to have a firmer, more toned look, and to be in good physical shape.

I still have a little layer of fat over everything, but mostly it's on and around my stomach. I first want to trim down and become leaner, then I'll work on building back a bit of the muscle. I've been operating on a caloric deficit for a while and have been alternating some weight training all over my body to ensure I don't lose too much muscle mass while I'm burning the fat off. I've made some really decent progress and can sort of see the hint of some ab definition right now whereas I couldn't a month ago.

I work the abs a lot mainly because when I was training for rowing several years back we did a much longer ab workout than I currently do after every training session. I'm just going with what I know really. Also, my abs recover quite quickly. While sore right after the workout (the good kind of sore), they feel fine the next day. When I work anything else (arms, back, legs etc) they are a little sore the next morning until I walk around and stretch a bit and loosen them up.

My routine is generally 30 minutes of running or stairclimbing, then 3 weight workouts on various parts of my body, then the abs. For the abs I do:

50 rugby situps (lay on my back, raise my feet 3" off the ground, then do a situp, bring my left knee to my chest and rotate my torso so my right elbow touches my left knee, while keeping my right foot 3" off the ground, then go back to the laying back position with both my feet 3" off the ground and alternate)

50 leg extensions (lay on my back, feet 3" off the ground, then bring my feet up to my butt, then extend my legs back out again)

50 crunches

the leg extensions are particularly hard on my lower back. I'd like to substitute them for something else that works my lower abs (rugby situps do pretty much everything, crunches work the uppers), but need a suggestion on an exercise that isn't so rough on my lower back.

 

[brikis98]

A few comments:

1. Seeing your abs is much more about lowering body fat percentage than it is about any particular exercise. So long as there is a layer of fat over them, it doesn't matter how many crunches or sit-ups you do. I think you understand this, but thought I'd mention it just in case.

2. There is no reason to train the abs any differently than other parts of your body. I don't suppose you are doing 50 reps for your squats, bench press, curls, pull-ups? So why would you for abs? Doing more than ~8 reps on any exercise, and especially numbers as high as 50, is primarily going to improve your muscular endurance with little impact on muscle strength & size. If you need the endurance (does it help with rowing?), then keep it up. However, if you're just trying to increase strength or maintain LBM, then train your abs the way you should be training everything else: a few heavy sets of 3-8 reps.

3. In terms of how often to work your abs, I would again say that you treat them just like your other muscles. If you do a full body routine every day, then feel free to include ab work every day. If you do a split routine, then pick one day for abs and do them only on that day.

4. However, if you go heavy, and especially if you train your abs daily, you also don't need to do three different ab exercises. More volume is not necessarily better for weight lifting - in fact, it usually just leads to extra fatigue on your CNS and ultimately overtraining symptoms. This is especially true if your routine already includes squats, deadlifts, OH press, cleans, etc, as all these compound exercises use the abs extensively. And if your routine doesn't include those exercises, then you are missing out on some of the most effective and important exercises for developing strength and increasing/maintaining muscle mass.

5. Finally, aside from the heavy compound lifts I already mentioned, some of my favorite exercises that hit the abs heavily include: GHD sit-ups, dragon flags, knees to elbows, l-sits, front levers, planche, and turkish get-ups.

 

[silverpig]

Thanks for the tips. I'll be looking some of those up. I do know that seeing definition is largely a body fat percentage issue, hence the main emphasis on cardio and the caloric deficit.

My goal isn't necessarily to improve muscle mass or even strength, although strength is a secondary goal I suppose. I'd much rather be able to bench 150 lbs in 100 reps rather than bench 300 5 times. I'm looking for fitness rather than strength.

I don't use any weights when I do the abs, and I generally do each ab exercise until I can't anymore. Doing 10 of each won't really do much for me I don't think.

I don't do too much with free weights, although I do some forearm exercises with some dumbells by rolling them in my fingers up and down.

Oh, and endurance is definitely a rowing thing... but I haven't rowed in about 5 years now.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: silverpig
I'm looking for fitness rather than strength.

Heh, it would be well worth your time to read the What is Fitness? article in the Crossfit Journal. I'm not sure how you define "fitness", but it seems weird to me to not consider strength a key component of it.

Originally posted by: silverpig
I don't use any weights when I do the abs, and I generally do each ab exercise until I can't anymore. Doing 10 of each won't really do much for me I don't think.

You wouldn't do sets of 5-8 with the same exercise you are doing now and artificially stop even though you can do far more. There would be no point to that. Instead, you'd do a weighted version of the exercise (or just a different, harder exercise) where 5-8 reps is all you can muster in a set. The number of reps you do just corresponds to what percentage of your 1 rep max (1RM) you are doing. For example, if you are doing sets of 5, you are using around 85% of a weight that you could only do for 1 rep. If you are doing sets of 10, you are using around 70% of your 1RM.

Training in different rep ranges - that is, training with different percentages of your 1RM - have completely different effects on your body. Although there will certainly be overlap, very roughly speaking, 1-6 reps is primarily strength, 7-12 reps is primarily muscle size, and anything above that is almost entirely muscular endurance. Therefore, the number of reps you do for an exercise should match your goals.

Originally posted by: silverpig
I don't do too much with free weights, although I do some forearm exercises with some dumbells by rolling them in my fingers up and down.

You said in your first post that you do "some weights". If you aren't using free weights... does that mean that "some weights" refers to exercise machines?

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: brikis98
2. There is no reason to train the abs any differently than other parts of your body. I don't suppose you are doing 50 reps for your squats, bench press, curls, pull-ups? So why would you for abs? Doing more than ~8 reps on any exercise, and especially numbers as high as 50, is primarily going to improve your muscular endurance with little impact on muscle strength & size. If you need the endurance (does it help with rowing?), then keep it up. However, if you're just trying to increase strength or maintain LBM, then train your abs the way you should be training everything else: a few heavy sets of 3-8 reps.

I think an exception can be made for abs to work them in a slightly higher rep range such as 8-12 reps because they are almost an isolation movement. The same goes for calf raises. It's not that I think these muscles are necessarily special and respond better to higher reps, but I find it difficult to do very low reps with heavy weight for isolation exercises such as ab and calf work while maintaining the form of the lift.

You wouldn't train your bench press or squat with ultra high reps if your goal was size and strength, but I don't think anyone ever talks about their 1RM or 3RM cable crunch either, even if they are training their abs for strength.

I personally do a few sets of 12-15 reps using a combination of cable crunches and dumbbell leg lifts once per week.

 

[Deeko]

Bodybuilders typically do ab work in the 12-20 rep range.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: Special K
I think an exception can be made for abs to work them in a slightly higher rep range such as 8-12 reps because they are almost an isolation movement. The same goes for calf raises. It's not that I think these muscles are necessarily special and respond better to higher reps, but I find it difficult to do very low reps with heavy weight for isolation exercises such as ab and calf work while maintaining the form of the lift.

You wouldn't train your bench press or squat with ultra high reps if your goal was size and strength, but I don't think anyone ever talks about their 1RM or 3RM cable crunch either, even if they are training their abs for strength.

I personally do a few sets of 12-15 reps using a combination of cable crunches and dumbbell leg lifts once per week.

If you are doing your abs as an isolation exercise, and working with heavy loads makes proper form difficult, then I agree that 8-12 reps may be more appropriate. However, this is nowhere near the 50 reps silverpig is doing now.

Moreover, I personally prefer compound exercises. As I said before, squats, deadlifts, OH press and the oly lifts are all compound lifts that hit the abs extensively and are typically done for low reps. Turkish get-ups can also be done with heavy weight and for low reps to great effect. Check out Turkish Get Up with Wife. Some of the other ab exercises I recommended are actually static holds, so "reps" don't really apply. For example, l-sits, front levers, and planches are all measured in time and not reps. Holding these for a longer time, up to a point, is a way to improve strength and not just endurance.

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: silverpig
I'm looking for fitness rather than strength.

Heh, it would be well worth your time to read the What is Fitness? article in the Crossfit Journal. I'm not sure how you define "fitness", but it seems weird to me to not consider strength a key component of it.

Originally posted by: silverpig
I don't use any weights when I do the abs, and I generally do each ab exercise until I can't anymore. Doing 10 of each won't really do much for me I don't think.

You wouldn't do sets of 5-8 with the same exercise you are doing now and artificially stop even though you can do far more. There would be no point to that. Instead, you'd do a weighted version of the exercise (or just a different, harder exercise) where 5-8 reps is all you can muster in a set. The number of reps you do just corresponds to what percentage of your 1 rep max (1RM) you are doing. For example, if you are doing sets of 5, you are using around 85% of a weight that you could only do for 1 rep. If you are doing sets of 10, you are using around 70% of your 1RM.

Training in different rep ranges - that is, training with different percentages of your 1RM - have completely different effects on your body. Although there will certainly be overlap, very roughly speaking, 1-6 reps is primarily strength, 7-12 reps is primarily muscle size, and anything above that is almost entirely muscular endurance. Therefore, the number of reps you do for an exercise should match your goals.

Originally posted by: silverpig
I don't do too much with free weights, although I do some forearm exercises with some dumbells by rolling them in my fingers up and down.

You said in your first post that you do "some weights". If you aren't using free weights... does that mean that "some weights" refers to exercise machines?

Thanks for the advice. I'll look through some of that stuff and will come up with something a little more fine tuned.

Yes, most of the resistance training I do is on the exercise machines, but I do use some free weights sometimes as well. I'm mostly trying to burn fat for right now, but coming up with a free weight routine is something I should probably be looking into soon as the fat is coming off pretty quickly now.

I guess fitness for me means being able to bike the 350km (including about 4000 ft elevation gain) to my wife's parents house during a weekend, or running a marathon.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: brikis98

5. Finally, aside from the heavy compound lifts I already mentioned, some of my favorite exercises that hit the abs heavily include: GHD sit-ups, dragon flags, knees to elbows, l-sits, front levers, planche, and turkish get-ups.

After reading this post I looked up some videos and tried this one today. Holy hell those work. 5 slow reps x 3 sets made my abs feels like jello.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: silverpig
Yes, most of the resistance training I do is on the exercise machines, but I do use some free weights sometimes as well.

Don't bother with machines. They are less effective than free weights in just about every conceivable way: they build less strength, less muscle mass, they don't develop neuromuscular coordination, they don't develop "functional" strength, and they often lead to more injuries than free weights. Free weights have a learning curve to them, but they are well worth it. Pick up a copy of Starting Strength, check out Stronglifts 5x5, watch the how to videos on Crossfit's Exercises page and get yourself under a barbell asap!

Originally posted by: silverpig
I guess fitness for me means being able to bike the 350km (including about 4000 ft elevation gain) to my wife's parents house during a weekend, or running a marathon.

Yea, for some reason most people in this country equate fitness with the cardiovascular endurance and stamina needed for LSD (long slow distance) events. While both of these are important, ignoring all other physical skills - such as strength, power, flexibility, speed, etc - as well as the non oxidative metabolic pathways leaves a giant hole in your athletic ability and overall health.

 

[bossman34]

i think you're right in wanting to cut back on the leg raises. Any exercise that involves raising the legs activates the hip flexor complex which partially inserts/originates in the lower back. So I would suggest cutting way back on any exercise that involves raising the legs. One way to really tighten up those lower abs is to consciously contract your lower abdominals during EVERY exercise. Do this by drawing in your navel towards your spine...not sucking in and holding your breath, but pulling your navel in using your lower abs. I have been sore in the abs the next day by doing this without a specific ab routine. Give it a shot!