AA and AF good in moderation - Tabb sucks.

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

You can just use a negative LOD bias setting to have nV even sharper still, and with comparable aliasing.

How does a negative LOD counter the fact that ATi can sample double the amount of texels that nVidia can?

What does that have to do with image quality, LOD is for IQ, texel speeds are for fps.

 

[kylebisme]

...but BFG10K never said anything about textel speeds.

 

[BenSkywalker]

BFG-

How does a negative LOD counter the fact that ATi can sample double the amount of texels that nVidia can?

What I was replying to-

ATi's AF method tends to stay sharper for longer distances on the angles it does sample.

That can be fixed with a simple LOD bias adjustment. ATi has a very poor blending method that they use(baseline DX spec, NV exceeds it noticeably) which introduces considerably more aliasing then nVidia. If you utilize a negative LOD bias setting with nV you get the sharpnes you have with ATi along with comparable levels of aliasing(nV edges them out still IMO in terms of having less aliasing).

Pete-

Only with their xS modes, though, and not at comparable speeds. Still, having the option is far nicer than not, and I'm sure it's a worthwhile setting with older games.

Which begs the question of why the hell won't ATi enable it in their drivers? Are they that afraid of the PR surrounding the performance hit their parts would take? nV has been facing that music all along.

Edit-

What does that have to do with image quality, LOD is for IQ, texel speeds are for fps.

LOD bias effects where mip transitions happen, it is a balancing act between aliasing and sharpness. Texel, the commonly used definition, is texture element. When you use AF you sample more texels then you do without AF.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
BFG-
Edit-

What does that have to do with image quality, LOD is for IQ, texel speeds are for fps.

LOD bias effects where mip transitions happen, it is a balancing act between aliasing and sharpness. Texel, the commonly used definition, is texture element. When you use AF you sample more texels then you do without AF.

Understood i was totally lost with that statement.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: Nebor
Someone take away VIAN's keyboard...

All he does is put useless threads on the forum. I dont understand how AA and AF suck. Go play a game without any then play a game with 8/16 @ 1600x1200 on 21" LCD. Then tell me it sucks. VAIN, you suck.

The problem with that would be that most video cards cannot run any game other than Quake 3 with 8XAA and 16XAF at 1600x1200 at a decent frame rate.

 

[Regs]

Jeff has a point. I don't get where everybody is getting there supper PC specs from.

Playing a game at 1600 x 1200 with any filter settings on today's commercial hardware would be stressful enough to make the game a slide show.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
The problem with that would be that most video cards cannot run any game other than Quake 3 with 8XAA and 16XAF at 1600x1200 at a decent frame rate.

lol! no videocard can run with x8aa with 16xaf at all.

regardless, that is hardly a problem. even 2xaa and 2xaf looks beter than none at all.

 

[Insomniak]

This thread is proof that something can evolve from nothing.

Take that, creationists.

 

[Regs]

Originally posted by: Insomniak
This thread is proof that something can evolve from nothing.

Take that, creationists.

Spin Offs and hijacks. Common occurrence on discussion forums. Have to get use to it if you wish to survive here

 

[BFG10K]

What does that have to do with image quality, LOD is for IQ, texel speeds are for fps.

Huh?

That can be fixed with a simple LOD bias adjustment.

No it can't. The reason why ATi is sharper for longer on certain surfaces is because they sample more texels than nVidia does (up to double).

Or are saying that ATi don't do AF at all and they do everything with a negative LOD?

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by: Insomniak
This thread is proof that something can evolve from nothing.

Take that, creationists.

 

[Rogodin2]

The move from the empirical is invalid.

Even Sloguensem would accede to that

I thought that nvidia's mipmap transitions were the ones sucking arse-from playing games on some nvidia hardware and from some screens I've seen-my eye's didn't lie though.

rogo

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Regs

Originally posted by: Insomniak
This thread is proof that something can evolve from nothing.

Take that, creationists.

Spin Offs and hijacks. Common occurrence on discussion forums. Have to get use to it if you wish to survive here

lol dude, I'm no stranger to the interweb and its discussion groups.

 

[Tab]

Sweet, I get more popularity!

 

[BenSkywalker]

No it can't. The reason why ATi is sharper for longer on certain surfaces is because they sample more texels than nVidia does (up to double).

Or are saying that ATi don't do AF at all and they do everything with a negative LOD?

I'm saying that using 16x AF introduces a degree of aliasing that is comparable to using 8x AF with a negative LOD bias adjustment on nV's parts. The reason for AF is to allow for textures to stay sharper further out without too much aliasing and in that aspect it is quite easy to get the parts looking quite comparable no matter what settings you chose(actually, ATi needs to do a bit better still on there angles but in terms of sharpness they are both right there).

 

[BFG10K]

I'm saying that using 16x AF introduces a degree of aliasing that is comparable to using 8x AF with a negative LOD bias adjustment on nV's parts.

In terms of aliasing I'd probably agree. But ATi does have extra IQ from their extra sampling that a negative LOD cannot give to nVidia.

 

[Pete]

Which begs the question of why the hell won't ATi enable it in their drivers? Are they that afraid of the PR surrounding the performance hit their parts would take? nV has been facing that music all along.

I hope not, Ben. The official word is that they don't have enough time, and they can't get gamma adjustment to work (they later said gamma adjustment may be possible with a workaround, though I'm not sure if that workaround includes a performance hit beyond SSAA's usual penalties). I'm not sure nV has been facing that same music all along, though, as their 4xMSAA is widely reported to look worse than ATi's 4xMSAA, yet is shown in the same graphs almost all the time, and usually without comment. But you're right, that same ignorance may lead to sites comparing ATi's 4xSSAA to nV's 4xS AA and proclaiming nV as faster, without detailing IQ differences.

 

[BoomAM]

Heres my opinion on the matter;

FSAA/FAA.
If i can pull it off without dropping below 40fps, then i`ll go as high as it`ll go. The IQ is far better, its sharper, but its not essential imo. I cant understand why some ppl here complain when they cant run games like DX2 with 4xAA, its just not essential, live with it and stop whining!.

AF.
A must imo. The clarity of the textures is so much better with it on. I have it perminantly on 16X performance.
Not 100% sure about nVidia cards, but most ATI DX9 cards can pull 16XPerf AF with little to no fps drop at all.