Originally posted by: TheSnowman
uh-oh Pete, you have incurred the wrath of the dillusional fanboy.
I challenge you, snowman, to back up one word of the filth you spread on these forums.
I challenge you, snowman, to back up one word of the filth you spread on these forums.
Originally posted by: BFG10K
VIAN, your posts are like a giant pendulum - swinging from one end of the opinion scale to the other on a daily basis.
I'm gonna have to say it buddy, but if you had gone with a R300 board you would have had better AA and AF. Also it would've been faster too.
False.
True
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
- 0
- 0
Originally posted by: Cerb
hum, i never said the gf4 ti4200 overtakes the 9600xt in aa and af performace, and it doesn't. as for the gargoyle clock, i just downloaded it and switched back and forth and i didn't see any difference at all, nore should i as it has nothing to do with aa. however, if you think quincux looks better than 8xss i must say you do see things weird to say the least.
lol, np. just go to that link you posted and see how ati's quality af has smoother mipmap transitions. however, ati's af is more angle dependent than nvidia's so in some cases nvidias af looks better. point being, there realy isn't a clear winner in this feild and it comes down to a mater of preference.
Cerb
Elite Member
- Aug 26, 2000
- 17,484
- 33
- 86
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
If only Rivatuner were there for ATi cards. Really, that's the most dissappointing part so far. Rivatuner has a perfect UI for quickly changing settings, but won't mess w/ too many of them on my current card.Originally posted by: Cerb
hum, i never said the gf4 ti4200 overtakes the 9600xt in aa and af performace, and it doesn't. as for the gargoyle clock, i just downloaded it and switched back and forth and i didn't see any difference at all, nore should i as it has nothing to do with aa. however, if you think quincux looks better than 8xss i must say you do see things weird to say the least.
You said "your 9600xt doesn't have performace and quality settings for aa"
This could mean two things that I can see:
1. No separate settings. Obviously false, because between the AA and AF sliders there are two radio buttons labeled with those words, and while I don't have any games intensive enough to change performance or look beyond AA and AF being on/off, unless you count 3DMark and the included demos as games
2. "your 9600xt doesn't have performance and quality settings for aa [that woulf allow decent performance]" which would also be false, as I considered a GF2 GTS w/ 2x AA on to have decent performance. Ah, Tribes...
Maybe there's a #3?
On the AA...jaggies are bad, specially when they appear to crawl on the edges. With supersampling AA, that crawling is still there even when the jagged edges are gone. Quincux got rid of jagged edges and I didn't notice any of the crawling. That made it perfect, IMO.
There is no one-size-fits-all, of course. If there was, this forum would not need to exist.
...and game. Check other articles on IQ out there where do a bit more work...on some, NVidia look better, some ATi. With both on, ATi tends to look better, where NVidia's tend to be more technically accurate.
Note: my only problem with NVidia involve the company, not the cards.
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
- 0
- 0
ya there is a #3, the performace and quality settings are for af only, aa just changes with its slider. as for quincux, imho and according to most of the people i have seen comment on it, the bluring of the textures is far worse than any benfit it has for reduceing alilsing. riva tuner, despite the name, does work for ati cards too but unfortunatly it doesn't seem to support recent drivers for the d3d and opengl settings. however rtool is great for change settings on the fly and forceing true trilinar anisotropy in d3d, radlinker (site down atm) is a very cool app that lets you create shortcuts which activate aplication specific settings, and personaly i don't use it but some people like rage tweak.
as for quincux, imho and according to most of the people i have seen comment on it, the bluring of the textures is far worse than any benfit it has for reduceing alilsing. riva tuner, despite the name, does work for ati cards too but unfortunatly it doesn't seem to support recent drivers for the d3d and opengl settings. however rtool is great for change settings on the fly and forceing true trilinar anisotropy in d3d, radlinker (site down atm) is a very cool app that lets you create shortcuts which activate aplication specific settings, and personaly i don't use it but some people like rage tweak.They have equally good IQ.
Might as well just leave it off.
MonkeyDrive, you are a sick, sick man.
Well, what can I say, you learn something new everyday.
Everygame, I can show you.
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
uh-oh Pete, you have incurred the wrath of the dillusional fanboy.
I challenge you, snowman, to back up one word of the filth you spread on these forums.
What pete says is that ATi's Af works in farther into the background, which doesn't mean it is batter quality. It's a ll about preferences, but for some games farther af really makes a difference while in others angle makes a difference.
A midget black dude and the bay watch dude. How can you ask that?
Maybe you're so blind that you don't see everything. It was right there in my face a big jag. And there another jag and another and another and then these really tiny jags. Come on. It was there.
Of course it was there! But when you turn AA on they become harder to notice, a lot harder if the res you use is higher than 1024x768. And then AF also makes a big difference. Textures get a lot sharper when they are far etc.
You were using 4200Ti? Borrow a R300, R350, RV350.... core and turn AA/AF on, you won't be dissapointed.
You were using 4200Ti? Borrow a R300, R350, RV350.... core and turn AA/AF on, you won't be dissapointed.
Hercules Radeon 9700Pro. 1280x1024 2xAA 16xAF performance@60hz. Just great IQ, can't complain about it.
Edit: and great performance of course
Edit: and great performance of course
Cerb
Elite Member
- Aug 26, 2000
- 17,484
- 33
- 86
1. Wow, doesn't look it...I can definitely believe the NVidia AF looking better, now. 4x/4x performance looks like just AA, no crawling edges to my eyes. 4x/4x quality looks like AF, but still crawling edges. 4x/8x performance looks like AF and AA...and it doesn't cause as much loss in the 3Dmark score as Quincux and 2xAF did beforeOriginally posted by: TheSnowman
ya there is a #3, the performace and quality settings are for af only, aa just changes with its slider.
.2. Eh...I always did mipmap adjustments, maybe that compensated?
3. Cat 3.6 didn't allow anything but overclocking, same w/ Cat 3.10. Rtool looks good...All I found of my own accord was Rage3DTweak...yeah, it's crap. It works, but takes too long.
...lastly, this stuff is why I need a good game that can push this thing. Previously, getting decent quality and FPS in SS2 was a nice challenge. 3Dmark just isn't that fun
.There is another problem with ATi's parts in terms of comparing AF quality(there filtering quality in general actually, it's very poor).
Read about it here.
The GF line is still hands down better dealing with AF then ATi, even though they have dropped off considerably from the NV2X line.
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
- 0
- 0
lol, but neither you nore the article explains the absurd level of zoom you need to see the difference or the fact that ati's implementation is based on directx specs. ati didn't cut corners here, nvidia just went an extra step. rather a much to-do about nothing.
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
- 0
- 0
Originally posted by: Cerb
1. Wow, doesn't look it...I can definitely believe the NVidia AF looking better, now. 4x/4x performance looks like just AA, no crawling edges to my eyes. 4x/4x quality looks like AF, but still crawling edges. 4x/8x performance looks like AF and AA...and it doesn't cause as much loss in the 3Dmark score as Quincux and 2xAF did before
2. Eh...I always did mipmap adjustments, maybe that compensated?
3. Cat 3.6 didn't allow anything but overclocking, same w/ Cat 3.10. Rtool looks good...All I found of my own accord was Rage3DTweak...yeah, it's crap. It works, but takes too long.
...lastly, this stuff is why I need a good game that can push this thing. Previously, getting decent quality and FPS in SS2 was a nice challenge. 3Dmark just isn't that fun
1. i think you are just confuseiong yourself, try just useing one at a time and leaveing the other on aplilcation so you can see the difference. also, note that when you have af on aplication the quality and performace settings are greyed out, that is because they are just for af.
oh and again, ati's af does look beter than nvidia's, while nvidia's looks beter in others.
2. ya, best to just leave those all at quality anyway.
3. radlinker's site is back up, might want to try that too.
as for a game to push things, halo will bring your system to its knees. you can download a demo if you like.
Acanthus, by definition ATi's 16xAF will be able to push MIP-maps farther back than nV's 8x AF. As for the rest of the scene, it's been pretty much established that nV tends to look better overall, but there are cases where ATi's AF is superior:
IIRC, ATi's AF seems to extend further in Aquamark 3, too. Neither card is perfect, but I don't think we need to leave it at "ATi is superior at AA and nV is superior at AF." It's not always that simple, to both companies' advantage (and disadvantage).
IIRC, ATi's AF seems to extend further in Aquamark 3, too. Neither card is perfect, but I don't think we need to leave it at "ATi is superior at AA and nV is superior at AF." It's not always that simple, to both companies' advantage (and disadvantage).
There are instances where ATIs AF is superior. Like when you are looking at a straight line. Start adding any kind of angle to it and the thing crumbles.
If you want to see a classic example of this take a look at these shots. Notice when you start adding more angles the worse the R300 looks. To really get a feel for the problem look at the 4 sides vs 5 or 3 sides. 4 sides being obvious straight lines and easy angles to deal with, 3 and 5 not. BTW this is done on the latest Cat 3.9 drivers.
AF quality between NV35 and R350
I think in todays games this is probably not an issue. But I think in the near future this could be a problem. I remember asking about graphical issues in the HL2 video. Especially on the roof where the metal has reflections coming off it and when the user turned the angle of the view to an angle about 15-20 degrees off a 90 degree angle the texture quality dropped considerably. I didnt really know what to make of it now but after reading a bit on ATIs subpar texture quality and sub par AF algortithm, and then seeing those screenshots I now understand why it looks so poor and distorted.
If you want to see a classic example of this take a look at these shots. Notice when you start adding more angles the worse the R300 looks. To really get a feel for the problem look at the 4 sides vs 5 or 3 sides. 4 sides being obvious straight lines and easy angles to deal with, 3 and 5 not. BTW this is done on the latest Cat 3.9 drivers.
AF quality between NV35 and R350
I think in todays games this is probably not an issue. But I think in the near future this could be a problem. I remember asking about graphical issues in the HL2 video. Especially on the roof where the metal has reflections coming off it and when the user turned the angle of the view to an angle about 15-20 degrees off a 90 degree angle the texture quality dropped considerably. I didnt really know what to make of it now but after reading a bit on ATIs subpar texture quality and sub par AF algortithm, and then seeing those screenshots I now understand why it looks so poor and distorted.
Cerb
Elite Member
- Aug 26, 2000
- 17,484
- 33
- 86
Genx87's link shows what I was talking about...look at the D3D comparisons. Things get fuzzier and appear much less aliased w/ the ATi ones, particularly 3 and 6 sides. On the 10 and 20 sided images, it's still clearly there, but I'd be willing to bet that acually moving around in it (playing a game) would change the way it is percieved, being less fuzzy than 3 or 6 sides. Even with motion the likes of the chimp, gargoyle and 3DMark03, it appears to remove crawling edges more than sharpen textures.Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: Cerb
1. Wow, doesn't look it...I can definitely believe the NVidia AF looking better, now. 4x/4x performance looks like just AA, no crawling edges to my eyes. 4x/4x quality looks like AF, but still crawling edges. 4x/8x performance looks like AF and AA...and it doesn't cause as much loss in the 3Dmark score as Quincux and 2xAF did before
2. Eh...I always did mipmap adjustments, maybe that compensated?
3. Cat 3.6 didn't allow anything but overclocking, same w/ Cat 3.10. Rtool looks good...All I found of my own accord was Rage3DTweak...yeah, it's crap. It works, but takes too long.
...lastly, this stuff is why I need a good game that can push this thing. Previously, getting decent quality and FPS in SS2 was a nice challenge. 3Dmark just isn't that fun
1. i think you are just confuseiong yourself, try just useing one at a time and leaveing the other on aplilcation so you can see the difference. also, note that when you have af on aplication the quality and performace settings are greyed out, that is because they are just for af.
oh and again, ati's af does look beter than nvidia's, while nvidia's looks beter in others.
Got it...it was up when I first read the post. Rage3DTweak has all the options one could ever want, but the interface makes it very slow. In 15 seconds or so I could completely change all my settings in Rivatuner for a different game. RTool is a nice no-frills one, but I must say, I've been spoiled using Rivatuner for the past 18 months or so.
MW4M and Uru should get me through to early summer. Then it's on (or had better be...no more delays! After finals week I want to blow people up online, dammit).
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 23K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter