A warning to prospective 7850 owners

[3DVagabond]

Has anyone tried re-seating their cooler? I'm not saying that anyone should have to do this. The card should come from the factory properly assembled. Unfortunately, this is real life with manufacturing being done at the lowest cost level. Before anyone buys an aftermarket cooler, it might be worth a try just to check if it's as simple as reapplying the thermal paste.

 

[blastingcap]

A couple times in this thread people have mentioned that review samples seem to run cooler than the retail cards. I have a 2 month old XFX 6870 with a single fan right in the middle of the card that runs quite a bit hotter than I expected. I am only driving an lcd tv @ 1360*768 and have seen it go into the high 80's on bad company 2 single player The card handles the game flawlessly at that res of course but that seems too hot for a card that draws as little power as the 6870. I am now using a custom fan profile with afterburner that seems to help some but I am just not buying the numbers that review sites put up for cards. The cards are cherry picked and the setups are optimal, real world situations seem to be much harsher. I know I am not happy and wish I had bought the twin frozr for an extra 20$.

Always look at reviews for the specific card you are considering buying, period. Reviewers get all sorts of cards, some "A reference," some "B reference," and some customized ones. Also, yes reviewers tend to use cases with good cooling, so you can't expect to get their kind of results if you run a case with poor cooling.

 

[Rambusted]

Always look at reviews for the specific card you are considering buying, period. Reviewers get all sorts of cards, some "A reference," some "B reference," and some customized ones. Also, yes reviewers tend to use cases with good cooling, so you can't expect to get their kind of results if you run a case with poor cooling.

Where were you two months ago when that information would have been especially useful Seriously though I knew this card was not going to run as cool as some of the more expensive ones, but I am a cheapskate and on the bright side I now have a pretty effective space heater for my family room which no doubt will save me even more money on oil during the winter months.

 

[blastingcap]

Where were you two months ago when that information would have been especially useful Seriously though I knew this card was not going to run as cool as some of the more expensive ones, but I am a cheapskate and on the bright side I now have a pretty effective space heater for my family room which no doubt will save me even more money on oil during the winter months.

To be fair, you could not have made a mistake years ago, when it used to be the case that reference cards dominated for a lot longer after launch. Back then, it did not matter which brand you picked since they were literally all the same cards, just with different stickers.

The problem is that if you are a board partner (ASUS MSI etc.), it becomes almost impossible to distinguish your company from everyone else, other than by warranty and accessories. So after much lobbying AMD started allowing non-reference cards to be sold earlier and earlier, to the point where nowadays, some non-reference cards get sold at launch alongside reference cards.

If you are cheap but still want good cooling, I recommend sorting by price and then ignoring all the ones with bad coolers. Usually what ends up happening is that the cheapest card with good cooling is a Sapphire OC edition card (or their non-OC edition cards with the same coolers as the OC edition cards).

But verify in reviews that tear down the card to look at the cooler to make sure the cooler is good. Sapphire used to be one of the brands with iffier cooling, so I still don't 100% trust them and always verify their coolers in reviews that do teardowns.

Also good are the ASUS DirectCU and MSI TwinFrozr and Lightning models, but they tend to be priced higher than the Sapphire OC editions without offering much better cooling. Those last few degrees C aren't worth another $20 in my opinion.

If you're wondering how Sapphire can make good coolers and still be very price competitive, it's volume: they make more AMD Radeon cards than anyone else so they have more efficiencies of scale.

 

[SickBeast]

Has anyone tried re-seating their cooler? I'm not saying that anyone should have to do this. The card should come from the factory properly assembled. Unfortunately, this is real life with manufacturing being done at the lowest cost level. Before anyone buys an aftermarket cooler, it might be worth a try just to check if it's as simple as reapplying the thermal paste.

My temps are confirmed by actual reviews of my Powercolor card, which unfortunately came out *after* I had bought the card.

I'm in negotiations with the place where I bought the card to see if I can return it.

 

[bigsnyder]

My temps are confirmed by actual reviews of my Powercolor card, which unfortunately came out *after* I had bought the card.

I'm in negotiations with the place where I bought the card to see if I can return it.

Exactly, actual reviews are still kind of scarce on the 7850s. I have yet to see a "professional" review on my MSI R7850. Had to go on pictures and feature list.

 

[Soulkeeper]

I too hate it when they start screwing with the reference design

as a non-windows user it' highly annoying when they expect you to use their proprietary windows desktop app to adjust fans/voltages.

They should just choose a color scheme and how heavy they want the heatsink to be, nothing else.

Reference designs FTW !

 

[3DVagabond]

I too hate it when they start screwing with the reference design

as a non-windows user it' highly annoying when they expect you to use their proprietary windows desktop app to adjust fans/voltages.

They should just choose a color scheme and how heavy they want the heatsink to be, nothing else.

Reference designs FTW !

Non Windows user? Why do you think they care? j/k

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Keep in mind with the amount of hardware reviewers go through, more than likely you're looking at open bench temps in a temperature controlled environment.

 

[blastingcap]

Reviewers usually state the conditions under which they test. Including what case they used if any. And of course CPU, RAM, resolution, etc.

 

[bononos]

That's fair, but most people just look at the graphs and read the conclusion. I admit that's what I do most of the time. I prefer to make my own interpretation of the data.

Thats odd. By saying that you prefer to make your own interpretation of the data means that you fully read and understand the article and testing methodology.

What you should have posted is 'I prefer to skip to the graphs and make hasty conclusions without proper consideration of the data'.

 

[Concillian]

Nice warning. But anyhow, Despite being around for ages (think I once bought a Powercolor Radeon 9100 PCI about a decade ago), the fact that nobody thinks highly of them must speak volumes... Or at least I never read a good review of Powercolor,

Eh, my powercolor 5770 has done me well.

Though I do most of my overclocking with bios flashing, messing with OC tools is good for finding where you're stable, but once I do, I flash the clocks in. I keep my cards too long and don't want to mess with it every time I move it to another computer or re-install the OS. I do always leave plenty of margin. My 5770 is at 925 / 1300, but I think it was stable at 950 or 970 and I turned down the clocks for extra margin so I never have to go back to it.

You just have to know what you're getting into with a reference cooler. Temps are higher, but it's cheaper there is some trade-off to everything.

That being said, I do have an ASUS 7850 in the mail.

 

[KingFatty]

So of the two issues, seems the voltage control is more important?

For the poor cooling, seems like not a bad deal to get an aftermarket cooler.

If you replace the cooler, it will give you an opportunity to look closely at the circuit board, and take a picture for us, then we can look to see what kind of voltage control it uses.

If it has a voltage controller that is software controllable, you are probably in luck and just need the right software/bios to talk to the voltage controller. But if it's a hardware limited skimpy fixed voltage controller, then you may have to use a modification such as drawing pencil lead onto the circuit board at the appropriate spot.

So, keep us posted whether you return the card or get an aftermarket cooler.
Actually, maybe you made the right call to get a more affordable card with a crappy cooler, so you can save money on the initial price and just replace it with a cooler that may be superior to all other cards?

 

[Jaydip]

SB,i told u to get the ASUS DC ii version.They have a sick cooler.But even a stock 7850 is a pretty good card,don't be so disappointed men.

 

[Shamrock]

Thanks for the warning, that's why a Sapphire 7850 (with dual fans) will be here in the morning.

My first ATI/AMD card since Rage II

I've been rockin' a nV 260 GTX for 4 years, it's time.

 

[atticus14]

I would also say its important to check the cases used (if at all) in benchmarks. Sometimes its extremely hard to find benchmarks that are ran inside a case and it makes all the difference in temps. My case has several fans but lacks a side fan blowing on the GPU it its sorely missed. If i pop off the side of my case i can lose up to 20 degrees f. You also have to keep in mind ambient temps (of the review if noted and your house)

In the case of the Anandtech review their case does have a side fan and from what i gather you have 1 in back and one in front, major disadvantage; Someday i'll buy a Haf-X or something similar because of this, because it irritates the heck out of me.

 

[SickBeast]

So of the two issues, seems the voltage control is more important?

For the poor cooling, seems like not a bad deal to get an aftermarket cooler.

If you replace the cooler, it will give you an opportunity to look closely at the circuit board, and take a picture for us, then we can look to see what kind of voltage control it uses.

If it has a voltage controller that is software controllable, you are probably in luck and just need the right software/bios to talk to the voltage controller. But if it's a hardware limited skimpy fixed voltage controller, then you may have to use a modification such as drawing pencil lead onto the circuit board at the appropriate spot.

So, keep us posted whether you return the card or get an aftermarket cooler.
Actually, maybe you made the right call to get a more affordable card with a crappy cooler, so you can save money on the initial price and just replace it with a cooler that may be superior to all other cards?

I appreciate that, King Fatty. I will take pics as I do it.

The voltage controller can at least undervolt the chip for 2d clocks, and I can set it at either 1.2v or up to 1.225v.

The problem is that bios mods do not look promising unless someone else takes up the development. The RBE developer is on hiatus and he says that AMD is meddling with his work through the drivers.

 

[marlinman]

It needs to be said. There are tons of people pushing the 7850 on people but there is a lot that is not being said about these cards in the reviews or by the people who are encouraging people to buy them.

Seems like an odd thing for the starter of the "The Radeon 7850 is an overclocking beast" thread to write. Just sayin'...

 

[SickBeast]

Seems like an odd thing for the starter of the "The Radeon 7850 is an overclocking beast" thread to write. Just sayin'...

Yeah I realize that. I started the other thread before I bought my Powercolor 7850. Much to my chagrin, my card is completely locked down in terms of voltage and my temps are terrible.

 

[blastingcap]

Yeah I realize that. I started the other thread before I bought my Powercolor 7850. Much to my chagrin, my card is completely locked down in terms of voltage and my temps are terrible.

Are you sure it's completely locked down? I thought they were all using the same software-changeable voltage regulation chips now. Try the latest GPU Tweak software from ASUS and change the settings in it to enable voltage modification and see if that helps.

 

[3DVagabond]

Much to my chagrin, my card is completely locked down in terms of voltage and my temps are terrible.

Well?

and I can set it at either 1.2v or up to 1.225v

Not totally true, apparently.

Is 1.225v not enough to get a great O/C? While I realize people are pushing 1.3v through the 7970, I haven't read what they are over volting the 7850 to. Also FWIW, if I had a 7000 card I wouldn't push 1.3v through it for any extended time. 1.2v, maybe, 1.25v, would be my limit.

 

[soccerballtux]

I just wanted to share my displeasure with my Powercolor 7850. It's the reference model.

The problem with my particular card is that they have completely locked down the voltage on it and you can't change it in *any* of the overclocking software (I tried about 7 different programs without any success).

Also, the cooling on the thing sucks and is completely inadequate for the card even when mildly or moderately overclocked.

My advice to prospective 7850 owners is to stick with the Asus cards as the Asus GPU Tweak software allows full adjustment and overclocking of that card, and the temps are reasonable.

If anyone is interested in my card for $200 shipped please let me know.

I tend to be a fan of Powercolor. They still overclock pretty nice for the voltage they give you and run nice and cool. They can't afford the RMAs so they limit what you can do with it. Keeps it cheap for the rest of us
IMO it never pays to OC video card. I haven't been able to "get away with it" in quite a while....

 

[SickBeast]

Well?



Not totally true, apparently.

Is 1.225v not enough to get a great O/C? While I realize people are pushing 1.3v through the 7970, I haven't read what they are over volting the 7850 to. Also FWIW, if I had a 7000 card I wouldn't push 1.3v through it for any extended time. 1.2v, maybe, 1.25v, would be my limit.

You know, I could be limited by my temperatures right now. I will know tomorrow when my Arctic Cooler arrives.

I just would ideally like 1.25v. I realize it's only a tiny bit more voltage, but I think it would be all I would need to hit 1250mhz or so.

The place where I bought the 7850 from wants me to pay a 15% restocking fee plus shipping across the continent, so it's looking more and more like I will be stuck with this card.

Hopefully the bios modders and the overclocking software people will be able to make me happy with the card.

 

[soccerballtux]

Here you go, MisterMac, this is what I was expecting:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5625/...-7850-review-rounding-out-southern-islands/18

62C under full load overclocked. Mine is 85C. Big difference. It's deceptive for there to be two types of "reference" cards IMO. Either AMD or Powercolor is at fault.

ok, that's disappointing.

 

[SickBeast]

I tend to be a fan of Powercolor. They still overclock pretty nice for the voltage they give you and run nice and cool. They can't afford the RMAs so they limit what you can do with it. Keeps it cheap for the rest of us
IMO it never pays to OC video card. I haven't been able to "get away with it" in quite a while....

You could well be right.

1150mhz isn't terrible. I paid 10% less and wound up with 10% less overclocking headroom. I just wasn't expecting the card to be so locked down.