irishScott
Lifer
- Oct 10, 2006
- 21,562
- 3
- 0
Well... for what it is worth.
A friend in my research lab has been working on a Li-ion battery collaboration to address the issue with Li-ion losing charge capacity (like after you cycle the battery a bunch it doesn't hold charge worth shit).
He took LiCoO2 particles and coated them with a thin layer (like 1 nm thick) of amorphous aluminum oxide... presto, battery capacity doesn't degrade any more (or only like 5% over hundreds of cycles instead of 50-80%)! In this case the Li atoms intercalate* the CoO2 instead of silicon nanowires as reported from that old Nature nanotech article.
The aluminum oxide is grown using a process called atomic layer deposition using trimethyl aluminum and water as the reactants... so this process is fast and relatively cheap to do and can scale up big time. So this simple technology will make it way into batteries that we will actually use really, really soon. There is actually some even better improvements in the pipe but we haven not disclosed the data yet so I can't say anything.
*from wikipedia: In chemistry, intercalation is the reversible inclusion of a molecule (or group) between two other molecules (or groups). Examples include DNA intercalation and in graphite intercalation compounds.
Li-ion batteries work via intercalation rather than actual chemical reactions like most all traditional batteries.
My friend is actually at a conference in CA presenting this research this week.
A friend in my research lab has been working on a Li-ion battery collaboration to address the issue with Li-ion losing charge capacity (like after you cycle the battery a bunch it doesn't hold charge worth shit).
He took LiCoO2 particles and coated them with a thin layer (like 1 nm thick) of amorphous aluminum oxide... presto, battery capacity doesn't degrade any more (or only like 5% over hundreds of cycles instead of 50-80%)! In this case the Li atoms intercalate* the CoO2 instead of silicon nanowires as reported from that old Nature nanotech article.
The aluminum oxide is grown using a process called atomic layer deposition using trimethyl aluminum and water as the reactants... so this process is fast and relatively cheap to do and can scale up big time. So this simple technology will make it way into batteries that we will actually use really, really soon. There is actually some even better improvements in the pipe but we haven not disclosed the data yet so I can't say anything.
*from wikipedia: In chemistry, intercalation is the reversible inclusion of a molecule (or group) between two other molecules (or groups). Examples include DNA intercalation and in graphite intercalation compounds.
Li-ion batteries work via intercalation rather than actual chemical reactions like most all traditional batteries.
My friend is actually at a conference in CA presenting this research this week.
shortylickens
No Lifer
- Jul 15, 2003
- 80,287
- 17,082
- 136
Bingo.Originally posted by: her209
The patents have been purchased and placed in a vault alongside the patent to the car that runs on water.Originally posted by: Eli
It's been almost 2 years. Where are my LiIon superbatteries?
The industry does not want us to have these things. They made a batch of light bulbs way back at the turn of the 20th century that run forever. We will never see them. They want us to keep burning them up and buying more.
The good news is LED replacements for household lights are becoming mainstream. They still cost a lot, but eventually will come down in price. So that problem will work itself out.
But no one in power wants the public to have batteries that last a really long time. It would cut down on profits for too many important people. And given that the American economy is based on people paying too much for crap, we really cant afford any more blows like efficiency or practicality.
skyking
Lifer
- Nov 21, 2001
- 22,819
- 5,983
- 146
Originally posted by: shortylickens
Bingo.Originally posted by: her209
The patents have been purchased and placed in a vault alongside the patent to the car that runs on water.Originally posted by: Eli
It's been almost 2 years. Where are my LiIon superbatteries?
The industry does not want us to have these things. They made a batch of light bulbs way back at the turn of the 20th century that run forever. We will never see them. They want us to keep burning them up and buying more.
The good news is LED replacements for household lights are becoming mainstream. They still cost a lot, but eventually will come down in price. So that problem will work itself out.
But no one in power wants the public to have batteries that last a really long time. It would cut down on profits for too many important people. And given that the American economy is based on people paying too much for crap, we really cant afford any more blows like efficiency or practicality.
I am planning our next home, and it will have solar to DC because of LED lighting. One of the big costs with LED is the need for a converter in the bulb itself.
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Originally posted by: SSSnail
I remember posting this two years ago... And it was great news
Nah, you didn't even post in the thread 2 years ago. Rubycon posted the thread, hence I came into the thread expecting the content to be realistic (unlike the pee powered car thread that was posted today & is in Wired that's nothing but bullshit.)
polarmystery
Diamond Member
- Aug 21, 2005
- 3,888
- 8
- 81
Originally posted by: shortylickens
Bingo.Originally posted by: her209
The patents have been purchased and placed in a vault alongside the patent to the car that runs on water.Originally posted by: Eli
It's been almost 2 years. Where are my LiIon superbatteries?
The industry does not want us to have these things. They made a batch of light bulbs way back at the turn of the 20th century that run forever. We will never see them. They want us to keep burning them up and buying more.
The good news is LED replacements for household lights are becoming mainstream. They still cost a lot, but eventually will come down in price. So that problem will work itself out.
But no one in power wants the public to have batteries that last a really long time. It would cut down on profits for too many important people. And given that the American economy is based on people paying too much for crap, we really cant afford any more blows like efficiency or practicality.
Your post is true and it pisses me off :|
shortylickens
No Lifer
- Jul 15, 2003
- 80,287
- 17,082
- 136
I have often thought that we need low-level DC outlets inside homes. When you think about it, damn near every device you plug into a wall outlet actually needs DC to run, and has to make its own DC with a power adapter or power supply inside the device. AC is really only useful in getting power from the plant to your house efficiently. Even radios turn the wall AC into DC and then use a local osccilator to make the AC they actually need.Originally posted by: skyking
Originally posted by: shortylickens
Bingo.Originally posted by: her209
The patents have been purchased and placed in a vault alongside the patent to the car that runs on water.Originally posted by: Eli
It's been almost 2 years. Where are my LiIon superbatteries?
The industry does not want us to have these things. They made a batch of light bulbs way back at the turn of the 20th century that run forever. We will never see them. They want us to keep burning them up and buying more.
The good news is LED replacements for household lights are becoming mainstream. They still cost a lot, but eventually will come down in price. So that problem will work itself out.
But no one in power wants the public to have batteries that last a really long time. It would cut down on profits for too many important people. And given that the American economy is based on people paying too much for crap, we really cant afford any more blows like efficiency or practicality.
I am planning our next home, and it will have solar to DC because of LED lighting. One of the big costs with LED is the need for a converter in the bulb itself.
Think about all the stupid little power packs we have for our gadgets like laptops and cell phones. Think about how hot those power packs get when they are charging a device that only needs 10 VDC. I think it would be much nicer to have a DC source in your wall. But the cost to develop a standard and put it in all homes would be ridiculous.
skyking
Lifer
- Nov 21, 2001
- 22,819
- 5,983
- 146
Originally posted by: shortylickens
I have often thought that we need low-level DC outlets inside homes. When you think about it, damn near every device you plug into a wall outlet actually needs DC to run, and has to make its own DC with a power adapter or power supply inside the device. AC is really only useful in getting power from the plant to your house efficiently. Even radios turn the wall AC into DC and then use a local osccilator to make the AC they actually need.Originally posted by: skyking
Originally posted by: shortylickens
Bingo.Originally posted by: her209
The patents have been purchased and placed in a vault alongside the patent to the car that runs on water.Originally posted by: Eli
It's been almost 2 years. Where are my LiIon superbatteries?
The industry does not want us to have these things. They made a batch of light bulbs way back at the turn of the 20th century that run forever. We will never see them. They want us to keep burning them up and buying more.
The good news is LED replacements for household lights are becoming mainstream. They still cost a lot, but eventually will come down in price. So that problem will work itself out.
But no one in power wants the public to have batteries that last a really long time. It would cut down on profits for too many important people. And given that the American economy is based on people paying too much for crap, we really cant afford any more blows like efficiency or practicality.
I am planning our next home, and it will have solar to DC because of LED lighting. One of the big costs with LED is the need for a converter in the bulb itself.
Think about all the stupid little power packs we have for our gadgets like laptops and cell phones. Think about how hot those power packs get when they are charging a device that only needs 10 VDC. I think it would be much nicer to have a DC source in your wall. But the cost to develop a standard and put it in all homes would be ridiculous.
I am going for only lighting circuits. That will be a PITA but should still be a doable thing.
The nice thing is the whole house battery backup for the one thing that people really want: The lights to stay on in a power outage.
LEDs use very little power compared to the standard home lighting. It won't take a huge bank of batteries to provide days worth of frugal usage.
shortylickens
No Lifer
- Jul 15, 2003
- 80,287
- 17,082
- 136
Yup. I think a lot of people are so obsessed with saving money on their electrical bill they forget one of the most important benefits of efficiency: Emergencies. Being able to keep your stuff running in a power outage is a huge factor. One that most people never consider until something bad happens. Then its too late.
skyking
Lifer
- Nov 21, 2001
- 22,819
- 5,983
- 146
For me there is the efficiency thing. Solar is DC, so the typical solar installation has an inverter to AC so you can sell it back to the utility. I will still probably have the inverter but I hope to use most of the power in house. That removes one of the power wasting steps. The LED efficiencies more than offset the power losses due to battery storage IMO.
I will also be looking for big RV refrigerator/freezers. new would be an arm and a leg but motor homes get wrecked and a suitable used unit can be had. This will use some of the solar directly during the day and eliminate the storage problem for 40~60% of that cost.
Those of you that think everything is a conspiracy theory make me laugh. :laugh:
There is no light bulb that will last forever, there is no carburetor that gets 100MPG, and there is no vault with battery secrets in it.
Christ people, get a clue. Learn how the world and the things within it work before jumping on stupid bandwagons.
There is no light bulb that will last forever, there is no carburetor that gets 100MPG, and there is no vault with battery secrets in it.
Christ people, get a clue. Learn how the world and the things within it work before jumping on stupid bandwagons.
rivan
Diamond Member
- Jul 8, 2003
- 9,677
- 3
- 81
You can't possibly be implying that in this day and age, there's insufficient technology to make an incandescent light bulb that lasts more than a couple months.
I fall somewhere in between wearing tinfoil and your position. I think there are absolutely things that are intentionally quashed because they'd potentially threaten profits of people and corporations in power. Further, I think you'd have to be terribly naive to believe otherwise.
- Aug 10, 2005
- 17,768
- 485
- 126
That technology existed over 108 years ago! Hello Centennial Light!
How about a million hours? More of a fluke than anything else. It's possible to get incandescents to burn VERY long but they are not very efficient and their light quality at lower driving power is rather too red. It makes a nice ambiance for dining, however.
AC is very hard on light bulb filaments as is turning them on. LEDs are the future for sure. They'll still blow out due to cheap drivers and poor implementation. This is seen with CFLs as well. This is why a $15 Philips Earthlight will outlast a $4 Lights of America POS 6 to 1. :laugh:
RadiclDreamer
Diamond Member
- Aug 8, 2004
- 8,622
- 40
- 91
Miramonti
Lifer
- Aug 26, 2000
- 28,653
- 100
- 106
Originally posted by: Eli
It's been almost 2 years. Where are my LiIon superbatteries?
Best to go straight to the source to see how its going.
Btw, if anyone emails them, post it so they don't get multiple inquiries from the same audience.
sdifox
No Lifer
- Sep 30, 2005
- 100,855
- 18,072
- 126
Originally posted by: Rubycon
That technology existed over 108 years ago! Hello Centennial Light!
How about a million hours? More of a fluke than anything else. It's possible to get incandescents to burn VERY long but they are not very efficient and their light quality at lower driving power is rather too red. It makes a nice ambiance for dining, however.
AC is very hard on light bulb filaments as is turning them on. LEDs are the future for sure. They'll still blow out due to cheap drivers and poor implementation. This is seen with CFLs as well. This is why a $15 Philips Earthlight will outlast a $4 Lights of America POS 6 to 1. :laugh:
Dollar stores around here are selling 11W CFL Sunbeam brand for a buck... They don't last very long though. Me think it's the capacitor more than anything else.
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