A shocking act of terrorism in Israel

[Ozoned]

While I cannot quite agree with the JOS total point of, "It's just fucking immature retarded shit they are up to.

Someone will eventually need to tell these children that playtime is now over."

Simply because its not the game playing of children on either side. These are responsible or should I say irresponsible adults we are dealing with and any moderate viewpoints have been long long ago driven out of the discussions as the various sides now go for a total win rather than any compromise. As both sides have their various axes to grind.

What is left out in the process is the world community that has a huge stake in a just mid-east peace. And since the world community has no biased axes to grind, its maybe long past time for binding international arbitration of the disputes. Guaranteed, neither Israel or the Palestinians will like such a settlement, but both sides can like it or lump it as a just mid-east settlement is forged.

Israel will have the guaranteed right to exist but will have to go back to the pre-1967 borders.

For the all the pro-Israeli fan clubbers who assert that Israeli might will prevent such a solution, I will simply point out that Israeli military might is still very tiny compared to the collective international community.

As adults to adults, its long past time for the world community to say, the time for all this bullshit is past.

In other news, the US recently (last week ????) approved an additional $2,500,000,000 in direct military aid to Israel.

Money talks, your BULLSHIT walks.

 

[wwswimming]

If Israel doesn't reign-in these wingnuts, then they only have themselves to blame.

Israel = Wingnuts.

http://www.palestineremembered.com/

unfortunately, most young Israeli Jews haven't figured out that they DON'T have to continue the same killing regime as their parents and grandparents.

they're still subscribing to their own version of "white supremacy", where the life of 1 Jew = 100 or 1000 Arabs.

fortunately, some young Israeli Jews realize they don't have to adopt their parents' racism. e.g. Omer Goldman, daughter of a former Mossad chief, who refused to serve in the IDF once she realized that they were killing & terrorizing Palestinians civilians.

http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/19738

"First Person

November 25, 2008 By Omer Goldman
Source: Financial Times

Omer Goldman's ZSpace Page

Join ZSpace

As told to Sarah Duguid

I first went to prison on September 23 of this year and served 35 days. By the time you read this, I will be back inside for another 21. This is going to be my life for the next two years: in for three weeks, out for one. I am 19 years old now and by the time the authorities give up hounding me, I will be 21. The reason? I refused to do my military service for the Israeli army.

I grew up with the army. My father was deputy head of Mossad and I saw my sister, who is eight years older than me, do her military service. As a young girl, I wanted to be a soldier. The military was such a part of my life that I never even questioned it.

Earlier this year, I went to a peace demonstration in Palestine. I had always been told that the Israeli army was there to defend me, but during that demonstration Israeli soldiers opened fire on me and my friends with rubber bullets and tear-gas grenades. I was shocked and scared. I saw the truth. I saw the reality. I saw for the first time that the most dangerous thing in Palestine is the Israeli soldiers, the very people who are supposed to be on my side."

 

[Genx87]

The US can only protect Israel so much, there is a lot of dispeasure among every single NATO nation except the US regarding that situation.

Instead they have taken it bit by bit, last settlements were not built all that long ago, remember?

It'll continue the same way until all land is annexed.

In what way has the US protected Isreal? Have we landed troops on her shores? Oh you mean we repeatedly shoot down one sided motions brought by the Arab league in UN? Whoopie do!

The land is already annexed and has been for 40 years.

 

[Craig234]

Israel = Wingnuts.

http://www.palestineremembered.com/

unfortunately, most young Israeli Jews haven't figured out that they DON'T have to continue the same killing regime as their parents and grandparents.

they're still subscribing to their own version of "white supremacy", where the life of 1 Jew = 100 or 1000 Arabs.

fortunately, some young Israeli Jews realize they don't have to adopt their parents' racism. e.g. Omer Goldman, daughter of a former Mossad chief, who refused to serve in the IDF once she realized that they were killing & terrorizing Palestinians civilians.

http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/19738

"First Person

November 25, 2008 By Omer Goldman
Source: Financial Times

Omer Goldman's ZSpace Page

Join ZSpace

As told to Sarah Duguid

I first went to prison on September 23 of this year and served 35 days. By the time you read this, I will be back inside for another 21. This is going to be my life for the next two years: in for three weeks, out for one. I am 19 years old now and by the time the authorities give up hounding me, I will be 21. The reason? I refused to do my military service for the Israeli army.

I grew up with the army. My father was deputy head of Mossad and I saw my sister, who is eight years older than me, do her military service. As a young girl, I wanted to be a soldier. The military was such a part of my life that I never even questioned it.

Earlier this year, I went to a peace demonstration in Palestine. I had always been told that the Israeli army was there to defend me, but during that demonstration Israeli soldiers opened fire on me and my friends with rubber bullets and tear-gas grenades. I was shocked and scared. I saw the truth. I saw the reality. I saw for the first time that the most dangerous thing in Palestine is the Israeli soldiers, the very people who are supposed to be on my side."

Thanks for that notable story. It really shows the type of Israeli who we can use more of, very principled.

 

[wwswimming]

Thanks for that notable story. It really shows the type of Israeli who we can use more of, very principled.

i don't entirely understand why more young Israeli citizens don't get it. you don't have to be a genius to understand that both sides were born into a bad situation based on the Israeli destruction of 400 Palestinian villages in 1948, the theft of the associated land - and the continuing theft of Palestinian land.

i know why Americans don't get it - they're fed a constant diet of "Muslims are bad-bad-bad". e.g.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1132797.html

" Every appointee to the American government must endure a thorough background check by the American Jewish community."

both Americans & Israeli citizens have to do some digging to find out about Israeli authorship of terror incidents such as -
* the LaVon affair
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair
* the attack on the King David Hotel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
* the attack on the USS Liberty during the war in 1967
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

Israel does have a historical pattern of blowing sh*t up and trying to blame it on the Arabs. there's no way you will find out about that in a conventional American or Israeli school.

actually, Americans are pretty self-lobotomizing on this subject. much of the time, they are unable to grapple with the facts, and have to resort to lame accusations of "conspiracy theory" and anti-Semitism.

when in fact many historical conspiracies are fact, not theory ... and most Israeli Jews are not Semitic - the Palestinians are Semitic.

i say it's not anti-Semitic to study history - what's racist is to KILL PEOPLE. which is unfortunately what the Israeli's have a long history of doing.

 

[JS80]

Finally some real justice. Kudos to the settlers for their bravery and courage.

 

[Craig234]

Finally some real justice. Kudos to the settlers for their bravery and courage.

Ass, troll.

 

[JS80]

Ass, troll.

Fascist, anti-semite.

 

[Dari]

Fascist, anti-semite.

That would mean he hates all semites, which isn't true. BTW, are you Jewish?

 

[JS80]

That would mean he hates all semites, which isn't true. BTW, are you Jewish?

No.

And wrong. The term "anti-semite" is not used to mean hates all "semites". It is used to describe Jew haters. Why do you always bring this shit up? Go fucking study for your fake PhD.

 

[Dari]

No.

And wrong. The term "anti-semite" is not used to mean hates all "semites". It is used to describe Jew haters. Why do you always bring this shit up? Go fucking study for your fake PhD.

I thought you weren't. You must be close to one, though, judging by your posts here. What's pathetic is that your people were probably victims of racism as well and suffered greatly. But, you and I can agree that there is nothing wrong with that, right?

If you claim that 'anti-semite' is solely for Jews then an Arab can be an anti-semite, which is incredibly stupid.

 

[0marTheZealot]

Fascist, anti-semite.

You don't even know what those words mean. I mean, seriously, you don't. If you did, you'd know how to use them properly.

 

[Nebor]

i don't entirely understand why more young Israeli citizens don't get it. you don't have to be a genius to understand that both sides were born into a bad situation based on the Israeli destruction of 400 Palestinian villages in 1948, the theft of the associated land - and the continuing theft of Palestinian land.

Because the majority of Israelis, young and old, realize that they are winning this war by attrition. Every day they go stronger and the Palestinians grow weaker. Every day there are more Israelis and fewer Palestinians. Every day they push violence to a new level and the world shrugs. They have no reason to stop when they can win instead.

 

[0marTheZealot]

Because the majority of Israelis, young and old, realize that they are winning this war by attrition. Every day they go stronger and the Palestinians grow weaker. Every day there are more Israelis and fewer Palestinians. Every day they push violence to a new level and the world shrugs. They have no reason to stop when they can win instead.

huh? That's not how it's working. Israel is losing the battle, just by demographics alone. In 40 years, there won't even be a Jewish majority within Israel proper, nevermind the occupied territories. Israel, as a Jewish state, is a transient affair. Unless they adopt some radical measure (eg changing citizenship definitions, exporting all the arabs, etc etc), Israel will not be a Jewish state by the middle of the century. Even the most conservative demographics projection show an Arab majority by 2050. There's no way you can beat 5 children per Arab woman, compared to 1.7 to 1.9 for Jewish women.

 

[Dari]

huh? That's not how it's working. Israel is losing the battle, just by demographics alone. In 40 years, there won't even be a Jewish majority within Israel proper, nevermind the occupied territories. Israel, as a Jewish state, is a transient affair. Unless they adopt some radical measure (eg changing citizenship definitions, exporting all the arabs, etc etc), Israel will not be a Jewish state by the middle of the century. Even the most conservative demographics projection show an Arab majority by 2050. There's no way you can beat 5 children per Arab woman, compared to 1.7 to 1.9 for Jewish women.

This is true. Continuing like this, Israeli Jews will have a siege mentality more profound than what it currently is.

 

[Darwin333]

While I cannot quite agree with the JOS total point of, "It's just fucking immature retarded shit they are up to.

Someone will eventually need to tell these children that playtime is now over."

Simply because its not the game playing of children on either side. These are responsible or should I say irresponsible adults we are dealing with and any moderate viewpoints have been long long ago driven out of the discussions as the various sides now go for a total win rather than any compromise. As both sides have their various axes to grind.

What is left out in the process is the world community that has a huge stake in a just mid-east peace. And since the world community has no biased axes to grind, its maybe long past time for binding international arbitration of the disputes. Guaranteed, neither Israel or the Palestinians will like such a settlement, but both sides can like it or lump it as a just mid-east settlement is forged.

Israel will have the guaranteed right to exist but will have to go back to the pre-1967 borders.

For the all the pro-Israeli fan clubbers who assert that Israeli might will prevent such a solution, I will simply point out that Israeli military might is still very tiny compared to the collective international community.

As adults to adults, its long past time for the world community to say, the time for all this bullshit is past.

The military might of the "collective international community"? Other than hash words I highly doubt the international community will ever take military action against Israel.

 

[sandorski]

huh? That's not how it's working. Israel is losing the battle, just by demographics alone. In 40 years, there won't even be a Jewish majority within Israel proper, nevermind the occupied territories. Israel, as a Jewish state, is a transient affair. Unless they adopt some radical measure (eg changing citizenship definitions, exporting all the arabs, etc etc), Israel will not be a Jewish state by the middle of the century. Even the most conservative demographics projection show an Arab majority by 2050. There's no way you can beat 5 children per Arab woman, compared to 1.7 to 1.9 for Jewish women.

Hmm, interesting to know. Probably explains the 1 or 2 Israeli Posters here who rail on about Muslims taking over the World. Sometimes people think their little World can be extrapolated out into the Cosmos with 100% accuracy.

 

[irishScott]

You clearly don't understand military strategy.

So you're saying that if it wanted to Israel could simply roll and maintain long-term control over the entire middle east, with it's current military, simply due to superior air power? I'm not even going to explain the problems with that idea.

 

[theflyingpig]

So you're saying that if it wanted to Israel could simply roll and maintain long-term control over the entire middle east, with it's current military, simply due to superior air power? I'm not even going to explain the problems with that idea.

No, that is not what I am saying. You clearly did not understand what you were replying to, and you continue to prove your ignorance with every post you make. Educate yourself.

 

[irishScott]

No, that is not what I am saying. You clearly did not understand what you were replying to, and you continue to prove your ignorance with every post you make. Educate yourself.

Good, then you're not a complete idiot. Just another insecure forum user on a power trip. As for knowing what we're responding to, I was responding to JohnofSheffield:

At full force, they'd win against any of their enemies, including ALL of them at the same time.

Don't kid yourself, if the plug is pulled and nothing is held back, they have superiour air force and that is all that will matter.

JoS later mentions nukes and ground spotters that he had previously implied were negligible. If you're going to make an argument, you have to be specific. He specifically said that in a war against "All of Israel's enemies at once" the only thing that would matter is their superior air force, which is flat out wrong.

Rough Roll Call of Israel's Enemies:
Palestine
Saudi Arabia
Syria
Jordan
Iran
Yemen
Omar
Possibly Egypt if Israel went all out against the rest of the Middle East

Israel's air force is nowhere near capable of waging war on and maintaining subsequent long term control over all of these nations on it's own, which is exactly what JoS said as per the rules of English grammar and Webster's Dictionary. Careful what you post.

 

[theflyingpig]

Good, then you're not a complete idiot. Just another insecure forum user on a power trip. As for knowing what we're responding to, I was responding to JohnofSheffield:



JoS later mentions nukes and ground spotters that he had previously implied were negligible. If you're going to make an argument, you have to be specific. He specifically said that in a war against "All of Israel's enemies at once" the only thing that would matter is their superior air force, which is flat out wrong.

Rough Roll Call of Israel's Enemies:
Palestine
Saudi Arabia
Syria
Jordan
Iran
Yemen
Omar
Possibly Egypt if Israel went all out against the rest of the Middle East

Israel's air force is nowhere near capable of waging war on and maintaining subsequent long term control over all of these nations on it's own, which is exactly what JoS said as per the rules of English grammar and Webster's Dictionary. Careful what you post.

The fact that you cannot understand the implications of JoS post shows your lack of understanding. Your nitpicking about being specific also shows that you are backed into a corner, and are trying desperately to fight your way out. I'm sure you went back and read through the posts many times before responding, confident in your analysis. Sadly, you still cannot comprehend what you were responding to. There is nothing more I can do for you. You analysis is flawed. Your strategy is weak. Your understanding is incomplete. Everyone knows this.

 

[irishScott]

The fact that you cannot understand the implications of JoS post shows your lack of understanding. Your nitpicking about being specific also shows that you are backed into a corner, and are trying desperately to fight your way out. I'm sure you went back and read through the posts many times before responding, confident in your analysis. Sadly, you still cannot comprehend what you were responding to. There is nothing more I can do for you. You analysis is flawed. Your strategy is weak. Your understanding is incomplete. Everyone knows this.

Actually no, and if all of that is the case please explain so I may learn oh wise strategic master of AT P&N.

Oh but wait, let's re-read your responses to me thus far. Hmmmm, nothing but insults.

Sorry if I take literal arguments literally. If you read any posts I've made in past threads here you'll find that the vast majority are quite specific.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Israel's air force is nowhere near capable of waging war on and maintaining subsequent long term control over all of these nations on it's own, which is exactly what JoS said as per the rules of English grammar and Webster's Dictionary. Careful what you post.

You are sadly very sadly mistaken....along with having the best pilots in the world....what are you smokin dude???

 

[irishScott]

You are sadly very sadly mistaken....along with having the best pilots in the world....what are you smokin dude???

I didn't say they couldn't maintain air superiority, but occupation actually requires, oh, I don't know. Occupying the country? That requires manpower and infrastructure other than air support. How do the planes get fuel? Does Israel have the resources to maintain the air power needed to, without international support and possibly multiple embargos, maintain 5+ year total control over the countries I listed?

Add what would probably be fanatical resistance over the entire area that would disrupt any supply lines outside of Israel and you get the only reliable air cover coming out of Israel. Meaning much fuel and time would be wasted flying to Israel and back to refuel. And you do know that the middle east is more than one giant desert right? Not all air strikes would be effective.

Israel could not maintain simultaneous unilateral long term (5+ years) total control over the countries I listed with air power alone.

 

[Corn]

This thread makes me happy. O'hai to you too!