A sample of how 'hard' teachers have it

[Carmen813]

Ha! We wish our system worked that efficiently. Here's how it typically works in the US.

9am: Phone up. (be put on hold for two minutes)
9:02am: Ask for an appointment for later that day.
9:03am: Begin to calm down after being told "Sorry, we don't have any available until next Friday."
9:10am: Find a local walk-in clinic in the phone book or online.
9:15am: Finally get someone on the phone. Ask if they take Blue Cross/Aetna/Cigna/whatever your employer-provided insurance is.
9:20am: Call another clinic because the last one didn't accept your particular insurance. (repeat as necessary)
10:00am: Arrive at walk-in clinic that accepts your insurance.
10:15am: Finish filling out forms for new patient information.
10:17am: Nurse copies your driver's license and insurance cards for their records.
11:45am: Finally get called by the nurse. At least they got to you before the doctors went on lunch.
12:00pm: Enter the little examination room.
12:05pm: Nurse checks your weight, height, temperature, blood pressure, and then asks what is bothering you.
12:10pm: Doctor enters, listens to your chest, looks at back of throat, in ears, etc. Discusses symptoms with you for all of 30 seconds.
12:12:30pm: You ask for a doctor's note. The doctor scribbles on his pad that you need a note. He writes you a prescription for a strong cough medicine, maybe Tamiflu, and why not throw Viagra in there for good measure?
12:15pm: Back at the front desk. You ask the nurse again about the doctor's note. They print off a generic form and the doctor walks by and signs it in the most illegible chickenscratch known to man.
12:17pm: Nurse asks what your copay is, and you pay it.
2 months later: Receive an angry letter and bill from the doctor's office because your insurance didn't pay. You call the insurance company, who states that the doctor's office didn't file the claim properly. You call the doctor's office, who apologizes and resubmits the bill to the insurance company.
4 months later: Recieve a denial of claim report from the insurance company and a letter threatening to send your account to a collections agency from the doctor's office. Fuck. Call them both. Repeat as necessary until account is settled. Your boss then yells at you because you spend 2 hours of your 45 minute lunch "hour" to deal with that one time you got the flu and had to take off work.

Best medical system in the world, my ass.

Shit you think the flu makes it bad, wait till you get cancer.

 

[Carmen813]

And that's before you add in weapons systems, combat electronics and everything else required in a piece of military aircraft. Then, there's the fact that the cost of developing any given model of military aircraft has to amortized across a much smaller number of units that will be produced.

I'm still waiting to see what he has to say about his qualifications to make such statements, or at least, to provide some links to documentation to support them.
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If we're going to start people to have qualifications before they make statements then this forum is going to get real quiet real fast.






I vote in favor of this policy.

 

[MovingTarget]

Shit you think the flu makes it bad, wait till you get cancer.

Have you had cancer?

/honestly curious. I know someone on these boards posted about their experience a while back.

I can only imagine how it would be for a cancer patient. Getting the runaround by doctors, labs, nurses, insurance companies, hospital billing departments, collections agencies, pharmacies, etc. etc. would be absolutely maddening even if you weren't trying to stay alive.

 

[Ausm]

Have you had cancer?

/honestly curious. I know someone on these boards posted about their experience a while back.

I can only imagine how it would be for a cancer patient. Getting the runaround by doctors, labs, nurses, insurance companies, hospital billing departments, collections agencies, pharmacies, etc. etc. would be absolutely maddening even if you weren't trying to stay alive.

Having Cancer you would run out your max lifetime benefit limit in a hurry.

 

[Harvey]

And that's before you add in weapons systems, combat electronics and everything else required in a piece of military aircraft. Then, there's the fact that the cost of developing any given model of military aircraft has to amortized across a much smaller number of units that will be produced.

I'm still waiting to see what he has to say about his qualifications to make such statements, or at least, to provide some links to documentation to support them.
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< crickets >
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< crickets >

If we're going to start people to have qualifications before they make statements then this forum is going to get real quiet real fast.






I vote in favor of this policy.

I asked him to tell us what qualifies him to support his lame, meaningless assertions OR at least to provide some links to documentation to support them. And I agree. It would be an improvement if more people would support what they post as statements of fact.

 

[HAL9000]

Ha! We wish our system worked that efficiently. Here's how it typically works in the US.

9am: Phone up. (be put on hold for two minutes)
9:02am: Ask for an appointment for later that day.
9:03am: Begin to calm down after being told "Sorry, we don't have any available until next Friday."
9:10am: Find a local walk-in clinic in the phone book or online.
9:15am: Finally get someone on the phone. Ask if they take Blue Cross/Aetna/Cigna/whatever your employer-provided insurance is.
9:20am: Call another clinic because the last one didn't accept your particular insurance. (repeat as necessary)
10:00am: Arrive at walk-in clinic that accepts your insurance.
10:15am: Finish filling out forms for new patient information.
10:17am: Nurse copies your driver's license and insurance cards for their records.
11:45am: Finally get called by the nurse. At least they got to you before the doctors went on lunch.
12:00pm: Enter the little examination room.
12:05pm: Nurse checks your weight, height, temperature, blood pressure, and then asks what is bothering you.
12:10pm: Doctor enters, listens to your chest, looks at back of throat, in ears, etc. Discusses symptoms with you for all of 30 seconds.
12:12:30pm: You ask for a doctor's note. The doctor scribbles on his pad that you need a note. He writes you a prescription for a strong cough medicine, maybe Tamiflu, and why not throw Viagra in there for good measure?
12:15pm: Back at the front desk. You ask the nurse again about the doctor's note. They print off a generic form and the doctor walks by and signs it in the most illegible chickenscratch known to man.
12:17pm: Nurse asks what your copay is, and you pay it.
2 months later: Receive an angry letter and bill from the doctor's office because your insurance didn't pay. You call the insurance company, who states that the doctor's office didn't file the claim properly. You call the doctor's office, who apologizes and resubmits the bill to the insurance company.
4 months later: Recieve a denial of claim report from the insurance company and a letter threatening to send your account to a collections agency from the doctor's office. Fuck. Call them both. Repeat as necessary until account is settled. Your boss then yells at you because you spend 2 hours of your 45 minute lunch "hour" to deal with that one time you got the flu and had to take off work.

Best medical system in the world, my ass.

Ouch.

let's see a video of that.

Why?

 

[sarsipias1234]

Shit you think the flu makes it bad, wait till you get cancer.

For the last ten years I was care giver to my mom who was without insurance for 2 years out of that ten.

To make a long story short:

A half a million dollar medical bill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We were overcharged by Sutter hospital to the tune of $140,000 for which Sutter was sued successfully for only $275 million when in fact Sutter overcharged for billions.

We were billed for hours not worked by California state workers and when I complained nothing was done.

The hospital negligently discharged my mom after surgery for a broken foot without proper physical therapy and without being prescribed blood thinners. My mom had a subsequent blood clot which required another hospital visit to the tune of $30,000. The hospital deliberately discharged my mom early to save money.

Overall the entire medical cost even under insurance and with my personal help: $500,000.

The worst part was not the money. The worst part is my mom felt so depressed from being taking advantage of that this further deteriorated her health. She became so depressed from the repeated abuses of the medical industry. I truly believe the medical industry did way more harm to my mom that good. The hippocratic oath for doctors is: Do no harm! Yet they harm everyone in the name the doctor's inflated salaries.

The medical industry is the most corrupt industry in the country according to the U.S. Attorney General.

 

[MovingTarget]

Ouch.

Lets see a video of that.

Why?

Many here believe that the US is the best in terms of access, quality, and wait times compared to the rest of the "socialist" world. Basically, he's calling you out as posting bs, and covering his ears going "lalalalala...." because there might be a better way when it comes to our health system.

Personally, although we've had our disagreements in the past, I believe you. People in the rest of the first world, when given the choice, repeatedly turn down the idea of a US-style system of rationing and delivering care. People in Britain tend to think very highly of their government-run healthcare from what I've heard, much moreso than us Americans would think of our system. Too many stories like I posted abound.

 

[HendrixFan]

I am worried about the economic future of this country.

We can't continue to offer and pay these huge types of retirement deals.

Your salary seems fine. But what happens when you are retired and are making $37,800 a year and they have to also pay a new teacher $54,000 a year to do the job you aren't doing.

Now it cost us $91k a year to teach one classroom. That is a problem.

You just said you thought he should be paid more. By backpaying in the form of a pension they are paying more, but are deferring the cost to a time when inflation lowers the payout. How much do you think $38k will be worth in 2045? Have you heard of QE1, 2 and 3?

You still haven't answered his question of how much do you think he is worth.

 

[HAL9000]

Many here believe that the US is the best in terms of access, quality, and wait times compared to the rest of the "socialist" world. Basically, he's calling you out as posting bs, and covering his ears going "lalalalala...." because there might be a better way when it comes to our health system.

That's a shame, I don't really know enough about the American system to discuss the pro's and cons, but if what has been posted in this thread is a real reflection of it D:

Personally, although we've had our disagreements in the past, I believe you.

Thank you, genuinely in the UK, I can get a Doctors appointment today or at the latest tomorrow any time.

People in the rest of the first world, when given the choice, repeatedly turn down the idea of a US-style system of rationing and delivering care. People in Britain tend to think very highly of their government-run healthcare from what I've heard, much moreso than us Americans would think of our system. Too many stories like I posted abound.

Yep, we do (as a generality) love our healthcare system, for the most part it works very well.

 

[Gardener]

The only way to fire a teacher in California is through a court case. A district it self cannot fire a teacher. You need a judge and another 3rd party to BOTH agree to fire the teacher. If only one agrees then the teacher cannot be fired for any reason. It cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to fire a single teacher. It is rediculous.

Source for this information?

I don't believe it.

 

[sarsipias1234]

Source for this information?

I don't believe it.

Have you ever heard of a teacher getting fired in California at all except for extreme cases of abuse?

All of my teachers at Sacramento High School were tenured teachers except two. The only good teachers in the school were the two untenured teachers. The tenured teachers were narcissistic people who were all obese and grotesque in the physical appearance. Coming from a small town in Illinois I was shocked at the appearance of the tenured teachers. They reminded me of this character in the novel Dune Baron Vladimir Harkonnen which I was reading at the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Harkonnen

 

[sarsipias1234]

You just said you thought he should be paid more. By backpaying in the form of a pension they are paying more, but are deferring the cost to a time when inflation lowers the payout. How much do you think $38k will be worth in 2045? Have you heard of QE1, 2 and 3?

You still haven't answered his question of how much do you think he is worth.

See, we make retired people poor on purpose. Inflation devalues the dollar to the point that our elders are treated horribly after having to work all their lives.

"The degree of civilization in a society," said Dostoyevsky, "can be judged by entering its prisons."

In other words, America is uncivilized to the degree of violating basic human rights of people who are least able to defend themselves. Namely the poor, the elderly, and the incarcerated.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Having Cancer you would run out your max lifetime benefit limit in a hurry.

My wife went through 2 months of inpatient cancer treatments in 2003 and burned through $250,000 before passing away. That was at a teaching hospital at the University of Utah. I can't imagine what it would have been like at a large high ranked non-teaching hospital. Luckily we had a good policy at the time due to my employer. Also, since it was a teaching hospital they wrote off the excess that wasn't covered by insurance.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Have you ever heard of a teacher getting fired in California at all except for extreme cases of abuse?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Harkonnen

In fact I have. Just talked to a former student who now attends a large school in the LA area and they just lost 20 teachers. Class sizes at his school are now ~40 - 45 students per class.

 

[randomrogue]

I've never heard of a public school teacher getting fired in CA personally. I have some friends that are teachers and honestly I wouldn't want them teaching my kids. I'm not really sure what the deal is but the public school system is pretty terrible. On the other hand though, the community college, state, and UC system is very good.

Movingtargets quote above is hilarious. I had that happen a few times. They love to deny you coverage so that you have to send in a whole bunch of paperwork and waste 2-3 hours at work.

I had an interesting experience with my blue cross provider when I went on vacation. My $50 a month travel insurance turned out to be better. Granted Blue Cross had a larger cap but they also had a deductible and wouldn't really cover anything until you were back home. You could pay out of pocket though but they wouldn't say if they would pay you back. I literally asked them a dozen times since they're supposed to cover a huge amount. Ultimately I cancelled my insurance with them. I think the final straw was when I called them up and gave them the doctor's code for a procedure I was getting done. They wouldn't comment on if it was covered. They would only let me know after I sent them the bill. It was always a gamble with them. Sometimes I would get things covered that I didn't expect (some travel shots) and sometimes I had an endless hassle on the phone and fax with them. I can't have insurance like that. It was just too stressful.

 

[sarsipias1234]

In fact I have. Just talked to a former student who now attends a large school in the LA area and they just lost 20 teachers. Class sizes at his school are now ~40 - 45 students per class.

Yes, only now we are firing these teachers.

Only after the state is entirely bankrupt are we finally firing teachers.

Took a bankruptcy of an entire state with the 8th largest economy in the world to finally fire the tenured teachers!

Up to this point you never heard of teachers getting fired except for sex abuse.

 

[Ausm]

My wife went through 2 months of inpatient cancer treatments in 2003 and burned through $250,000 before passing away. That was at a teaching hospital at the University of Utah. I can't imagine what it would have been like at a large high ranked non-teaching hospital. Luckily we had a good policy at the time due to my employer. Also, since it was a teaching hospital they wrote off the excess that wasn't covered by insurance.

I am sorry to hear about your wife's passing but I am glad you did not get cleaned out financially. That's what kills me about the GOP they don't give a damn about uninsured people. They don't realize that all the costs that they rack up are passed onto their greedy asses. If a Repug could see past their nose it would be a miracle.

 

[Exterous]

Up to this point you never heard of teachers getting fired except for sex abuse.

While I can't say for your state just because you didn't hear about them being fired didn't mean it never happened. Teachers being let go has never been uncommon in Michigan - it just never makes the local news unless its a juicy story - just like most companies.

And class siszes of 40+ is not a good thing

 

[J-Money]

Really? Over here it's:

9am - Phone up (2 mins)
10am - Appointment (wait in waiting room 4 minutes)
10:04am - Appointment
- "Hi Doctor I have the flu"
- "Let me see, yes you have a temperature, Here's a note"
- 1 minute of typing
10:06am - Leave Doctors.

Fairly similar here (at least in Kelowna, BC). for basic walk-in stuff anyway.

And we don't pay a cent.

The US medical system is one (of many) reasons I don't understand why people actually move from Canada to the US, unless it is for a very high paying job.


Another one that is insane to me is maternity leave. In the US you get what? 12 weeks MAX unpaid? Grats on either being broke or having your kids raised by a day care. My wife who is giving birth in November gets up to 65 weeks at ~60&#37; pay. Hell I can take 35 weeks at 60% if I want.


How can Americans even afford living? Especially with a family if they don't have insurance? One bad illness and you're broke for life (if no insurance)

 

[HendrixFan]

How can Americans even afford living? Especially with a family if they don't have insurance? One bad illness and you're broke for life (if no insurance)

That is a big part of why the poor stay poor. The poor usually don't have insurance, so when something serious happens the end result is family grouping together to help out the best they can. It not only anchors the sick person but the entire extended family that feels the need to help out.

 

[sarsipias1234]

That is a big part of why the poor stay poor. The poor usually don't have insurance, so when something serious happens the end result is family grouping together to help out the best they can. It not only anchors the sick person but the entire extended family that feels the need to help out.

When my mom had problems medically my extended family disappeared like ghost.

My family sucks ass.

 

[sarsipias1234]

While I can't say for your state just because you didn't hear about them being fired didn't mean it never happened. Teachers being let go has never been uncommon in Michigan - it just never makes the local news unless its a juicy story - just like most companies.

And class siszes of 40+ is not a good thing

*Building a case for dismissal is so time-consuming, costly and draining for principals and administrators that many say they don't make the effort except in the most egregious cases. The vast majority of firings stem from blatant misconduct, including sexual abuse, other immoral or illegal behavior, insubordination or repeated violation of rules such as showing up on time.

*Jettisoning a teacher solely because he or she can't teach is rare. In 80&#37; of the dismissals that were upheld, classroom performance was not even a factor.

From this article I found in the LA Times:

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may/03/local/me-teachers3