A Racist Finds Cover For His Racism Post Trump Election

[lopri]

No one among the Trump supporters have opinions on continuing [in]validity of Korematsu v. United States? The justification offered there is remarkably similar to arguments used to defend Trump's statements on Mexicans and Company™.

Link to my original query: A Racist Finds Cover For His Racism Post Trump Election

1) Was racism a factor in setting up the Japanese American internment camp during World War II?
2) Regardless of the answer to 1), do you think such an institution can be resurrected in the United States in the next 30 years or so?

Note here that I am not asking whether Trump is racist. In my view he is no more racist than an average American of 70 year old.

Key paragraph from the SCOTUS decision:

Korematsu was not excluded from the Military Area because of hostility to him or his race. He was excluded because we are at war with the Japanese Empire, because the properly constituted military authorities feared an invasion of our West Coast and felt constrained to take proper security measures, because they decided that the military urgency of the situation demanded that all citizens of Japanese ancestry be segregated from the West Coast temporarily, and, finally, because Congress, reposing its confidence in this time of war in our military leaders—as inevitably it must—determined that they should have the power to do just this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korematsu_v._United_States

History:

 

[MajinCry]

it was 70 years ago get over it we are a new america to be made great again like it was 72 years ago

 

[agent00f]

What are you implying is dishonest?

People emphatically stating things they don't care the veracity of.

 

[interchange]

People emphatically stating things they don't care the veracity of.

This may be the intent, but you are earnestly losing me in this conversation.

 

[sxr7171]

Racism is the view that people of a given melanin concentration are inferior; subhuman. From there, it's only a small step to view them as animals. And from there, it's only a sidestep to excuse heinous acts against them.

For example, viewing all Vietnamese civilians as Viet Cong, free for the raping, with a nice little name to go with them; beloved patriot, and Zipperhead.

Someone who isn't racist, who views human beings as equals, regardless of how varied their skin pigment is, I'd wager to not be remotely willing to engage in the above. People who are racists, however? American history is full of that. See the genocide of Native Americans for a blatant example.

Have you ever watched "The Brain by David Eagleman"? He goes into a good amount of detail on how genocides happen.

Basically yes it's pretty simple propaganda that starts it. Completely dehumanizing a group. So when people kill they just see the other person as a cockroach. Because most people would not kill even animals.

But he went into detail on how via EEG, no matter what, volunteers reacted differently when their own race was being harmed in a video to any other race. Whether or not someone is racist or not racist or says they aren't or whatever they claim the subconscious reaction is different between their race and any other race. No amount of mind conditioning changes this.

When push comes to shove the right propaganda can bring out the violence in anyone.

I'd like to look more into the Rwandan genocide to understand how it happened even though the skin colors were similar. There is some claim that one group was darker and shorter and the other taller and lighter. But when I read someone's argument with pictures that there wasn't always any distinguishing factors involved I wasn't sure it was about race at all. In fact I believe people were mistakenly killed by their own. It seemed to be about labels. Very simplistic level thinking. Sort of like the labels they apply to trump.

But right now when you consider that the post election violence (I mean physical violence not stupid swatikas spray painted) has come from anti trump people and the way everyone just repeats the same objections to trump (bigot, racist, nazi etc.) like they are reading from a piece of propaganda you must consider if only for a moment which side uses propaganda better. They certainly started first even years before trump showed up on the political scene.

Which side screams and cries and gets people fired for their words? Is that right in a free country? I can't help but think this election result is a backlash against the kind of propaganda and unithought coming from the left for quite a long time. For the first time Trump used some of those tactics for the "right" or whatever side he's really on.

I guess it's only good if it comes from the good altruistic left. The kind that likes to beat up white people for voting. After all this there is still no verifiable physical harm to any minority in the name of trump. Mentioning stupid swastikas is clutching at straws. I'm in no way for it but this is a free country after all.

 

[agent00f]

This may be the intent, but you are earnestly losing me in this conversation.

Are people who don't care about the truth of what they say not dishonest? And a habit of this not a pathology?

Either you believe folks who parrot breitbart talking points or whatever it takes are stupid, or not, but I don't think they're as stupid as they might appear to those who value honesty.

 

[agent00f]

Have you ever watched "The Brain by David Eagleman"? He goes into a good amount of detail on how genocides happen.

Basically yes it's pretty simple propaganda that starts it.

But he went into detail on how via EEG no matter what volunteers reacted differently when their own race was being harmed in a video to any other race. Whether or not someone is racist or not racist or says they aren't or whatever the subconscious reaction is different between their races and any other race. No amount of mind conditioning changes this.

When push comes to shove the right propaganda can bring out the animal in anyone.

I'd like to look more into the Rwandan genocide to understand how it happened even though the skin colors were similar. There is some claim that one group was darker and shorter and the other taller and lighter. But when I read someone's argument with pictures that there wasn't always any distinguishing factors involved.

But right now when you consider that the post election violence (I mean physical violence not stupid swatikas spray painted) has come from anti trump people and the way everyone just repeats the same objections to trump (bigot, racist, nazi etc.) like they are reading from a piece of propaganda you must consider if only for a moment which side uses propaganda better. They certainly started first even years before trump showed up on the political scene.

Which side screams and cries and gets people fired for their words? Is that right in a free country? I can't help but think this election result is a backlash against the kind of propaganda and unithought coming from the left for quite a long time. For the first time Trump used some of those tactics for the "right" or whatever side he's really on.

I guess it's only good if it comes from the good left. The kind that likes to beat up white people for voting. After all this there is still no verifiable physical harm to any minority in the name of trump. Mentioning stupid swastikas is clutching at straws. I'm in no way for it but this is a free country after all.

Funny you say both sides then focus on the one not talking about registering muslims, which really goes to show what you're willing to accept per Eagleman.

 

[interchange]

Are people who don't care about the truth of what they say not dishonest? And a habit of this not a pathology?

Either you believe folks who parrot breitbart talking points or whatever it takes are stupid, or not, but I don't think they're as stupid as they might appear to those who value honesty.

I don't think intelligence has much to do about it. Nor do I think honesty does either. There are people whose statements are more consistent and less contradictory with each other, and generally these are generated by people who put some effort into considering the realities of others prior to making them. There are people who are consciously pathologically dishonest (psychopathy to be as precise as I can, although this word has a rather hazy definition). And, for the most part, everyone is being perfectly honest all the time. In that very large bucket, when considering the inconsistencies of being human, where you draw the line between normal and pathological is more difficult.

 

[agent00f]

I don't think intelligence has much to do about it. Nor do I think honesty does either. There are people whose statements are more consistent and less contradictory with each other, and generally these are generated by people who put some effort into considering the realities of others prior to making them. There are people who are consciously pathologically dishonest (psychopathy to be as precise as I can, although this word has a rather hazy definition). And, for the most part, everyone is being perfectly honest all the time. In that very large bucket, where you draw the line between normal and pathological is more difficult.

As you may have noticed, many here have their proclamations shot down over and over again by facts yet seem compelled to keep up the same show. The typical explanation by people who value honesty and correctness (and thus see others that way) is they lack the faculties/skills to play the game of figuring things out, ie stupid.

The other more convincing explanation is that they're not playing the same game, but rather something else where they might have some evolutionary advantage. I believe once smart people start pondering this, it doesn't take them long to figure out what's going on.

 

[MrSquished]

I guess it's only good if it comes from the good altruistic left. The kind that likes to beat up white people for voting. After all this there is still no verifiable physical harm to any minority in the name of trump. Mentioning stupid swastikas is clutching at straws. I'm in no way for it but this is a free country after all.

I have a lot of liberal friends, family and colleagues. In fact the whole city I live in is far more left than right. I read a ton of daily news sources, some middle of the road and some left of center, and some here or there that are right-wing biased. Haven't heard or seen a damn thing that promotes violence from the lefties. Not even close. I can tell you I saw a lot of alt-right memes this election that screamed of hatred and animosity and sometimes bordering on violence.

I must be insulated. Somehow my internet does not allow these mad crazy violent calls to arms to get through. Perhaps I need to click better, faster, stronger.

And there have been plenty of racist attacks. Not all verifiable but plenty enough. They are out there and they are documentable. I don't expect much murder from them anyways, most white nationalists are pussies deep down.

 

[sxr7171]

Funny you say both sides then focus on the one not talking about registering muslims, which really goes to show what you're willing to accept per Eagleman.

Come on you know it would never happen. It's just ridiculous. Who knows what religion anyone really is? There are Arab names where the person could be Christian or Muslim. What criteria would they use? Ancestry from Middle East? As it stands people lie all the time on their ethnicity on college applications. You can't question anything because that would be racist the liberal says. You must believe me when I say I pray to whoever I say and when I say I have x,y,z ethnicity in me for affirmative action purposes. Who checks any of that? Who would have the balls anymore? They'd get fired.

No doubt they say really stupid impractical things like about this registry and that stupid wall. I think most intelligent people see right through it.

It's just fearmongering and people love to spread it.

 

[sxr7171]

I have a lot of liberal friends, family and colleagues. In fact the whole city I live in is far more left than right. I read a ton of daily news sources, some middle of the road and some left of center, and some here or there that are right-wing biased. Haven't heard or seen a damn thing that promotes violence from the lefties. Not even close. I can tell you I saw a lot of alt-right memes this election that screamed of hatred and animosity and sometimes bordering on violence.

I must be insulated. Somehow my internet does not allow these mad crazy violent calls to arms to get through. Perhaps I need to click better, faster, stronger.

And there have been plenty of racist attacks. Not all verifiable but plenty enough. They are out there and they are documentable. I don't expect much murder from them anyways, most white nationalists are pussies deep down.

What about the guy beaten up in Chicago? The property destroyed in Portland? Attacks on white people for voting trump? The videos are out there.

Yet you know if one minority got hurt at all the media would have been all over it. We'd see it a million times on the news. All they could find was spray paint.


https://www.google.com/amp/amp.usatoday.com/story/93633154/?client=safari

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/people-have-to-die-anti-trump-protester-calls-for-violence-on-cnn/

http://ktla.com/2016/11/10/disturbi...an-beaten-as-bystanders-yell-dont-vote-trump/


I'm not happy that white nationalists got some exposure here but I'm very confident their crap will die down pretty quickly with no one harmed.

These white nationalists have almost no support from anyone who voted for either candidate. They are just basking in whatever little "glory" they think they have. They think this president is on their side. They are just out of their minds. Maybe 100k people of 323 millions. Nobody would waste a drop of political capital on this fringe group.

 

[agent00f]

Come on you know it would never happen. It's just ridiculous. Who knows what religion anyone really is? There are Arab names where the person could be Christian or Muslim. What criteria would they use? Ancestry from Middle East? As it stands people lie all the time on their ethnicity on college applications. You can't question anything because that would be racist the liberals says. You must believe me when I say I pray to whoever I say and when I say I have x,y,z ethnicity in me for affirmative action purposes. Who checks any of that? Who would have the balls anymore?

No doubt they say really stupid impractical things like about this registry and that stupid wall. I think most intelligent people see right through it.

It's just fearmongering and people love to spread it.

Also funny your side's position is now "he doesn't/can't really mean what he say", then expect everyone to believe his parrots.

But let's not stray from the specifics, which is that those rally cheerleaders are the first in a long line of party faithful willing to round up undesirables for the right price.

 

[raildogg]

Don't let the media tell you that things have changed dramatically. That's what the media wants - you to get riled up.

Be aware that the media is trying to stir things up. Whether Trump is good or not doesn't matter. The reality is that things haven't changed much.

Not everything is politics.

 

[Chaotic42]

There's violence everywhere, but that doesn't mean that either "side" is calling for it or that liberals or conservatives are inherently violent. There are nutjobs of every stripe and they've been provoked by the election. The vast majority of people of every political affiliation aren't committing violent acts.

 

[agent00f]

What about the guy beaten up in Chicago? The property destroyed in Portland? Attacks on white people for voting trump? The videos are out there.

Yet you know if one minority got hurt at all the media would have been all over it. We'd see it a million times on the news. All they could find was spray paint.


https://www.google.com/amp/amp.usatoday.com/story/93633154/?client=safari

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/people-have-to-die-anti-trump-protester-calls-for-violence-on-cnn/

http://ktla.com/2016/11/10/disturbi...an-beaten-as-bystanders-yell-dont-vote-trump/


I'm not happy that white nationalists got some exposure here but I'm very confident their crap will die down pretty quickly with no one harmed.

Don't let the media tell you that things have changed dramatically. That's what the media wants - you to get riled up.

Be aware that the media is trying to stir things up. Whether Trump is good or not doesn't matter. The reality is that things haven't changed much.

Not everything is politics.

Yeah nothing bad can really happen with fascist ethnocentric nationalists in the executive and people of the same party controlling the other two branches.

 

[sxr7171]

Yeah nothing bad can really happen with fascist ethnocentric nationalists in the executive and people of the same party controlling the other two branches.

In all honesty that just sounds like a regurgitation of liberal propaganda. There's no evidence that any of those people are facsists or ethnocentric. Conservative sure, fascist I don't see it.

 

[agent00f]

In all honesty that just sounds like a regurgitation of liberal propaganda. There's no evidence that any of those people are facsists or ethnocentric. Conservative sure, fascist I don't see it.

It's in your interest to believe bannon's alt-right mindset is just being race-"realistic".

 

[interchange]

As you may have noticed, many here have their proclamations shot down over and over again by facts yet seem compelled to keep up the same show. The typical explanation by people who value honesty and correctness (and thus see others that way) is they lack the faculties/skills to play the game of figuring things out, ie stupid.

The other more convincing explanation is that they're not playing the same game, but rather something else where they might have some evolutionary advantage. I believe once smart people start pondering this, it doesn't take them long to figure out what's going on.

Evolutionary advantage suggests that the behavior is heritable.

And to your observation in general, this is clearly not a place to sway people with data. If that is your interest, it makes me wonder why you post here.

 

[sxr7171]

There's violence everywhere, but that doesn't mean that either "side" is calling for it or that liberals or conservatives are inherently violent. There are nutjobs of every stripe and they've been provoked by the election. The vast majority of people of every political affiliation aren't committing violent acts.

When it comes to actual physical harm have we seen even one report that anyone did it in Trump's name? Or that any minority was hurt by whites at all? I mean even one hair harmed. When it comes to burning things and attacking people something in the programming of some liberals has them on the streets beating people up.

No doubt the numbers are small on either side and most people are not violent on either side but my gosh the passion I see in how the liberal side will go onto the streets and burn things and beat people just has to come from some irrational belief that their fight or flight response needs activating. When asked why it's always like they are reading from a manual. He's a bigot, fascist, rascist. Ad hominem stuff on repeat.

 

[jackstar7]

Don't let the media tell you that things have changed dramatically. That's what the media wants - you to get riled up.

Be aware that the media is trying to stir things up. Whether Trump is good or not doesn't matter. The reality is that things haven't changed much.

Not everything is politics.

You seem too comfortable calling things status quo despite evidence to the contrary.

 

[sxr7171]

It's in your interest to believe bannon's alt-right mindset is just being race-"realistic".

It's in my interest to wait and watch for now. Let's see if any of the imagined (at this point) atrocities will actually take place. I'm not going to imagine my conclusion before anything happens in reality.

I have enough faith in the people of this nation that the vast majority of people are not racist. Would any particular group love to get some advantage as a result of this election? Sure. Maybe it's their turn after being ignored for almost a decade.

I honestly don't know how hard I would have to look to find an openly racist guy in this country. I can say that maybe I run into one every few years at best.

 

[agent00f]

Evolutionary advantage suggests that the behavior is heritable.

Evolutionary advantage is also a generalized explanation of why certain behaviors persist, eg religion, etc.

And to your observation in general, this is clearly not a place to sway people with data. If that is your interest, it makes me wonder why you post here.

Why would you think that's my interest given what I typically write?

 

[raildogg]

Evidence to the contrary? Yeah, if you follow the media that covers politics or people who follow politics. If you did so, you'd think the world was going to end after Trump won.

I would never vote for Trump but I'm not believing that things have changed so much since he won. Yeah, the media would love for you to believe that but that doesn't make it true.

 

[agent00f]

It's in my interest to wait and watch for now. Let's see if any of the imagined (at this point) atrocities will actually take place. I'm not going to imagine my conclusion before anything happens in reality.

No, it's in your interest to say whatever it takes to excuse the Bannon types. Let's not pretend you don't be making more excuses for them further down the line no matter what.