A Question for Conservatives

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: mjrcaliber
Why would the Worlds only Superpower want to emulate a weak little country like Canada?

What a great first post.

I hope you don't think America's strength reflects upon you in anyway. :laugh:

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Vic
(Because you asked), such large reductions in your government debt and deficit indicate that Canadian taxpayers are being overtaxed and underserved by their government.
It was not fair of you to only count federal income tax levels between the 2 countries without noting that Canada also has a national sales tax (GST) and VAT, both of which are regressive taxes and can be considerable.
Comparing the healthcare statistics was not fair either as Canada does not have certain social and ethnic problems that the US does, nor does Canada allow the type of nearly unchecked immigration that the US does (which means we get a lot more adults who immigrate from poorer countries with inadequate healthcare). The dietary habits of large numbers of Americans, combined with the rampant hypochondria and pill-abusing, don't help either.

Sorry, but I can just walk down a single street in downtown Vancouver and feel the higher tax burden. If only because everywhere you look are instructions from merchants as to how one can evade those taxes.

Lowering taxes minimally is not a solution for tax evasion.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: mjrcaliber
Why would the Worlds only Superpower want to emulate a weak little country like Canada?

Why did microsoft take ideas from other companies?
It's a superpower...it knows best

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: alchemize
I'm likely moving into the healthcare insurance industry very soon I'll be an expert in 6 months and get back to you...

The wife made up her mind, huh?

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: alchemize
I'm likely moving into the healthcare insurance industry very soon I'll be an expert in 6 months and get back to you...

The wife made up her mind, huh?

Jeebus can you people keep your private conversations to PM please? Or at least off-topic.

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: ntdz
Canada doesn't have a space program, a military, etc...

Edit: Oh, and you're wrong about Canada having less debt per GDP than the USA.
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publica...ankorder/2186rank.html

Canada: #23 with 77%
USA: #39 with 62.4%
Oh, and France and Germany top the United States as well. Japan is #3.

You should find better facts than "est." i.e. estimates (read guesses).

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Stunt
Lowering taxes minimally is not a solution for tax evasion.

Nor did I say it was. What I did say is that rampant and publicly visible tax evasion indicates a heavily overtaxed populace.

You asked, I answered. Do have any rebuttal to what I posted?

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Stunt
Lowering taxes minimally is not a solution for tax evasion.

Nor did I say it was. What I did say is that rampant and publicly visible tax evasion indicates a heavily overtaxed populace.

You asked, I answered. Do have any rebuttal to what I posted?

You have information showing that a lower US tax rate creates less tax evasion?

You haven't shown any information on this topic. Except some posters you saw on a walk.

Give me some facts and this will help your case. Until then i have no reason to respond as the case is ill-supported.

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: Vic
(Because you asked), such large reductions in your government debt and deficit indicate that Canadian taxpayers are being overtaxed and underserved by their government.

This is an abstraction not a proven fact. Poll? Governement data? Where are the facts to back this up?

It was not fair of you to only count federal income tax levels between the 2 countries without noting that Canada also has a national sales tax (GST) and VAT, both of which are regressive taxes and can be considerable.
Comparing the healthcare statistics was not fair either as Canada does not have certain social and ethnic problems that the US does,

Can you be more specific on this?

nor does Canada allow the type of nearly unchecked immigration that the US does

I have found it is easier to emmigrate to canada than to the US, of course if you live in mexico you can just walk across the rio grande...

(which means we get a lot more adults who immigrate from poorer countries with inadequate healthcare).

Yeah after all they come to the US because these economically POOR adults will be able to get beter healthcare they cannot afford in the first place.

The dietary habits of large numbers of Americans, combined with the rampant hypochondria and pill-abusing, don't help either.

I think this is more of a problem with our government and it's being bed buddies with the drugmakers. I would also like to note that I watch the CBC, and oddly enough Canada's government is more watchful and faster to react to drug issues than the US is. I will see a report on a problem with drug X in Canada and sometimes it is weeks or months before you hear something from our government warning us about it. If they even notify us at all!

Sorry, but I can just walk down a single street in downtown Vancouver and feel the higher tax burden. If only because everywhere you look are instructions from merchants as to how one can evade those taxes.

no comment on the last part as i have no basis for comment. Stunt perhaps you can glean some insight into this?

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: mjrcaliber
Why would the Worlds only Superpower want to emulate a weak little country like Canada?

Uhm yeah, after all being the worlds only superpower has put the biggest bullseye on us that has ever existed in mankinds history. Yeah that is beneficial.

</end sarcasm>

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: alchemize
I'm likely moving into the healthcare insurance industry very soon I'll be an expert in 6 months and get back to you...

The wife made up her mind, huh?

Jeebus can you people keep your private conversations to PM please? Or at least off-topic.

Here, your mommy told me you left your hall monitor badge at home:

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: alchemize
I'm likely moving into the healthcare insurance industry very soon I'll be an expert in 6 months and get back to you...

The wife made up her mind, huh?

Jeebus can you people keep your private conversations to PM please? Or at least off-topic.

Here, your mommy told me you left your hall monitor badge at home:

Go back &amp; look at his posts in this thread, he gets really irritated if you ignore him, he keeps insulting folks till they respond.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: Vic
(Because you asked), such large reductions in your government debt and deficit indicate that Canadian taxpayers are being overtaxed and underserved by their government.

This is an abstraction not a proven fact. Poll? Governement data? Where are the facts to back this up?

It was not fair of you to only count federal income tax levels between the 2 countries without noting that Canada also has a national sales tax (GST) and VAT, both of which are regressive taxes and can be considerable.
Comparing the healthcare statistics was not fair either as Canada does not have certain social and ethnic problems that the US does,

Can you be more specific on this?

nor does Canada allow the type of nearly unchecked immigration that the US does

I have found it is easier to emmigrate to canada than to the US, of course if you live in mexico you can just walk across the rio grande...

(which means we get a lot more adults who immigrate from poorer countries with inadequate healthcare).

Yeah after all they come to the US because these economically POOR adults will be able to get beter healthcare they cannot afford in the first place.

The dietary habits of large numbers of Americans, combined with the rampant hypochondria and pill-abusing, don't help either.

I think this is more of a problem with our government and it's being bed buddies with the drugmakers. I would also like to note that I watch the CBC, and oddly enough Canada's government is more watchful and faster to react to drug issues than the US is. I will see a report on a problem with drug X in Canada and sometimes it is weeks or months before you hear something from our government warning us about it. If they even notify us at all!

Sorry, but I can just walk down a single street in downtown Vancouver and feel the higher tax burden. If only because everywhere you look are instructions from merchants as to how one can evade those taxes.

no comment on the last part as i have no basis for comment. Stunt perhaps you can glean some insight into this?

Ugh, must you nest all those quotes?

Answering:
If a government collects enough taxes to repays its debts at such a scale so rapidly, then obviously the people are paying more in taxes than they receive in services. Is this hard to understand? I agree that paying down the debts do serve the people, but not immediately or directly.

I will not be more specific on that issue. The PC'ers might call me a bigot, which I am NOT (just not blind).

I was referring to the Mexican reconquista, which is allowed to such a massive extent that they may as well call it legal. Many politicians openly encourage it.

But when they come to America after years in a poor healthcare system, it is only logical to assume that they will have (on average) more ailments and/or a shorter average lifespan, correct? Don't ask for statistics, asking to disprove this one would be the same as saying that adequate healthcare does not improve health and lifespan (on average), would it not?

Prescription drug abuse is a major problem in America. The US government is nothing if not corrupt. Don't overlook the hypochondria either. People go to the doctor for a sniffle nowadays, and the US healthcare system allows them to do that, same day.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: mjrcaliber
Why would the Worlds only Superpower want to emulate a weak little country like Canada?

Uhm yeah, after all being the worlds only superpower has put the biggest bullseye on us that has ever existed in mankinds history. Yeah that is beneficial.

</end sarcasm>

I'd rather be a citizen of America than any other country... =/

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Vic
If a government collects enough taxes to repays its debts at such a scale so rapidly, then obviously the people are paying more in taxes than they receive in services. Is this hard to understand? I agree that paying down the debts do serve the people, but not immediately or directly.

I will not be more specific on that issue. The PC'ers might call me a bigot, which I am NOT (just not blind).

I was referring to the Mexican reconquista, which is allowed to such a massive extent that they may as well call it legal. Many politicians openly encourage it.

But when they come to America after years in a poor healthcare system, it is only logical to assume that they will have (on average) more ailments and/or a shorter average lifespan, correct? Don't ask for statistics, asking to disprove this one would be the same as saying that adequate healthcare does not improve health and lifespan (on average), would it not?

Prescription drug abuse is a major problem in America. The US government is nothing if not corrupt. Don't overlook the hypochondria either. People go to the doctor for a sniffle nowadays, and the US healthcare system allows them to do that, same day.

How is it fair for US citizens to reap the benifits and pass it on to the children.
Also if you reduce the debt the interest you pay is far less. Look up how much of the US deficit is interest payments...it's astounding. That money is seen instantly, and is not passed down to your offspring. We are basically paying for debts that our relatives ran up during the war. I find no problem paying this off as they created my freedom and the world we have today.

Have data yet on the tax evasoin issue?? I'd like to see all the US companies that are happy to pay taxes compared to the Canadian ones that hate it.

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: Vic
Ugh, must you nest all those quotes?

Answering:
If a government collects enough taxes to repays its debts at such a scale so rapidly, then obviously the people are paying more in taxes than they receive in services. Is this hard to understand? I agree that paying down the debts do serve the people, but not immediately or directly.

I will not be more specific on that issue. The PC'ers might call me a bigot, which I am NOT (just not blind).

I was referring to the Mexican reconquista, which is allowed to such a massive extent that they may as well call it legal. Many politicians openly encourage it.

But when they come to America after years in a poor healthcare system, it is only logical to assume that they will have (on average) more ailments and/or a shorter average lifespan, correct? Don't ask for statistics, asking to disprove this one would be the same as saying that adequate healthcare does not improve health and lifespan (on average), would it not?

Prescription drug abuse is a major problem in America. The US government is nothing if not corrupt. Don't overlook the hypochondria either. People go to the doctor for a sniffle nowadays, and the US healthcare system allows them to do that, same day.

My apologies on the nesting, old habits die hard.

So since you know all this ^^^ I am confused as to whether you are actually saying the US is a better system than canada's and the larger worlds Liberal example or vice versa?

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: mjrcaliber
Why would the Worlds only Superpower want to emulate a weak little country like Canada?

Uhm yeah, after all being the worlds only superpower has put the biggest bullseye on us that has ever existed in mankinds history. Yeah that is beneficial.

</end sarcasm>

I'd rather be a citizen of America than any other country... =/

Blind patriotism will get you no where. Unless you ever are a citizen of another country, and are able to see the ups and downs to it you hav no ability to make a factual comparison. Thus since you have no basis to make a factual comparison such a statement is nothing more than blind patriotism.

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Vic
If a government collects enough taxes to repays its debts at such a scale so rapidly, then obviously the people are paying more in taxes than they receive in services. Is this hard to understand? I agree that paying down the debts do serve the people, but not immediately or directly.

I will not be more specific on that issue. The PC'ers might call me a bigot, which I am NOT (just not blind).

I was referring to the Mexican reconquista, which is allowed to such a massive extent that they may as well call it legal. Many politicians openly encourage it.

But when they come to America after years in a poor healthcare system, it is only logical to assume that they will have (on average) more ailments and/or a shorter average lifespan, correct? Don't ask for statistics, asking to disprove this one would be the same as saying that adequate healthcare does not improve health and lifespan (on average), would it not?

Prescription drug abuse is a major problem in America. The US government is nothing if not corrupt. Don't overlook the hypochondria either. People go to the doctor for a sniffle nowadays, and the US healthcare system allows them to do that, same day.

How is it fair for US citizens to reap the benifits and pass it on to the children.
Also if you reduce the debt the interest you pay is far less. Look up how much of the US deficit is interest payments...it's astounding. That money is seen instantly, and is not passed down to your offspring. We are basically paying for debts that our relatives ran up during the war. I find no problem paying this off as they created my freedom and the world we have today.

Have data yet on the tax evasoin issue?? I'd like to see all the US companies that are happy to pay taxes compared to the Canadian ones that hate it.

One word on the corporate tax evasion issue: Bahamas.

 

[Stunt]

Interest on US debt

In FY04 the U. S. Government spent $322 Billion of your money on interest payments* to the holders of the National Debt.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: gutharius
So since you know all this ^^^ I am confused as to whether you are actually saying the US is a better system than canada's and the larger worlds Liberal example or vice versa?

I'm saying the US has expensive problems that Canada does not have. Neither fault nor praise belong to governments or "systems". Canada just has a (much) smaller, less diverse, and more peaceful population.

 

[glenn1]

Sorry, but I can just walk down a single street in downtown Vancouver and feel the higher tax burden.

Funny, what I felt walking in downtown Vancouver was hardly taxation, but rather the overwhelming and omnipresent references to gay pride. I don't think there's a single utility pole in the entire city that doesn't have a rainbow flag hanging from it.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: glenn1

Sorry, but I can just walk down a single street in downtown Vancouver and feel the higher tax burden.

Funny, what I felt walking in downtown Vancouver was hardly taxation, but rather the overwhelming and omnipresent references to gay pride. I don't think there's a single utility pole in the entire city that doesn't have a rainbow flag hanging from it.

I dunno about you but i like the idea of public acceptance of gays and lesbians.
The more people are exposed to it the sooner they can realize that these are people who deserve the same respect as any other person. Integration and acceptance is a long slow process...exposure has really helped here.

You can see this in the US too. The people who are really worried about gay marriage and rights are the rural communities who are not exposed to the lifestyle or the issue itself.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: glenn1

Sorry, but I can just walk down a single street in downtown Vancouver and feel the higher tax burden.

Funny, what I felt walking in downtown Vancouver was hardly taxation, but rather the overwhelming and omnipresent references to gay pride. I don't think there's a single utility pole in the entire city that doesn't have a rainbow flag hanging from it.

I dunno about you but i like the idea of public acceptance of gays and lesbians.
The more people are exposed to it the sooner they can realize that these are people who deserve the same respect as any other person. Integration and acceptance is a long slow process...exposure has really helped here.

You can see this in the US too. The people who are really worried about gay marriage and rights are the rural communities who are not exposed to the lifestyle or the issue itself.

I don't like the idea of public acceptance of gay marriage at all. I accept that most gays are born that way, that doesn't make me think they should allow to marry each other. It's just perverted, disgusting and against what the institution of marriage is (union between a man and woman). I'm apathetic towards gays, but I respect the fact that marriage is what it is. Give the gays civil unions, the same as marriage in all but name. Just not marriage.

 

[glenn1]

I dunno about you but i like the idea of public acceptance of gays and lesbians.

I don't have a problem with gays or lesbians, or public acceptance of them. I just thought that rainbow flags every 2 meters is a bit over the top. It reminded me of the forest of political signs you see on every square inch of highway median and street intersection during election seasons here. It's beyond tasteful recognition and into the realm of tackiness IMHO.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: glenn1

Sorry, but I can just walk down a single street in downtown Vancouver and feel the higher tax burden.

Funny, what I felt walking in downtown Vancouver was hardly taxation, but rather the overwhelming and omnipresent references to gay pride. I don't think there's a single utility pole in the entire city that doesn't have a rainbow flag hanging from it.

I dunno about you but i like the idea of public acceptance of gays and lesbians.
The more people are exposed to it the sooner they can realize that these are people who deserve the same respect as any other person. Integration and acceptance is a long slow process...exposure has really helped here.

You can see this in the US too. The people who are really worried about gay marriage and rights are the rural communities who are not exposed to the lifestyle or the issue itself.

I don't like the idea of public acceptance of gay marriage at all. I accept that most gays are born that way, that doesn't make me think they should allow to marry each other. It's just perverted, disgusting and against what the institution of marriage is (union between a man and woman). I'm apathetic towards gays, but I respect the fact that marriage is what it is. Give the gays civil unions, the same as marriage in all but name. Just not marriage.

Marriage no longer has anything to do with church.
A judge can wed these days...you can even modify the vows.
all it is is a piece of paper for the government.

I have no idea why straight ppl care...we ruined marriage already...divorce rates continue to climb. Marriage is no longer sacred so why pretend it is. Conservatives pride themselves with being realistic...you should try it. Gays should have the same rights as all others why shouldnt they? Because of some strager's views?...i don't want my opinion in other's lives...if they want to get married go nuts.

Also Gays can wed in canada and netherlands. Under the same church that are refusing it in the states. Dont fight the inevitable

Anyways unions is a good start...it would at least allow the state to recognize the relationship...marriage can start when the church and majority come around.