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A Muslim's perspective

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Orignal Earl said:
I wasn't going for the comparison to the religious versions.
I was going for the West Vs U.S. comparison.
I guess I was still carrying on with his comments to me from the NRA thread
He likes to call everyone outside the US barbaric
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Why would he? He's Canadian, isn't he?

Anyway, i know his blah about the Queen but i have to say that after i declared to him that i don't give a fuck about the Queen he's never brought it up in a discussion with me again, so perhaps that's all that you need to do and seriously, who gives a fuck about the Queen except maybe for US middleaged women?
 
JohnOfSheffield said:
I've lived all of my life in the UK, more than 45 years and used the term liberally amongst everyone i know who was a beloved patriot, seen it daily on humour shows or regular programs but yeah....

What do i know, some American who claims to be Canadian who hates the UK who read a story about it knows better.

It's just fucking short for Pakistani.
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Hi John, I think people get very confused when we see in our media that "beloved patriot" is an offensive term. I remember the furore that surrounded Prince Harry last year.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/prince-harry-says-sorry-again/story-e6frg6to-1111118535564

Not being able to visit England, that is the best information that we can make our judgements on.

Personally I don't see that it should be seen as an insult, I am Australian, and I am far from being offended by being called an "Aussie".
 
zugzoog said:
Hi John, I think people get very confused when we see in our media that "beloved patriot" is an offensive term. I remember the furore that surrounded Prince Harry last year.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/prince-harry-says-sorry-again/story-e6frg6to-1111118535564

Not being able to visit England, that is the best information that we can make our judgements on.

Personally I don't see that it should be seen as an insult, I am Australian, and I am far from being offended by being called an "Aussie".
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I think the biggie was the term "beloved patriot" that is definently a racial slur, beloved patriot might be in some parts, but if it isn't in Brixton then i don't know where it would be.

And i agree, to me and those in England that i've associated with (if you know anything about Brixton you know that it's a pretty heavy mix) it's the same thing as calling an Australian bloke an Aussie.
 
RabidMongoose said:
eg tala ekki islensku!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Ekki? Svo þú ert ekki íslensku?

BTW, the first question was "Really, so where on Iceland do you live?" (you can't put that through a translator, Icelandic grammar doesn't translate well inte English grammar, you have to be able to speak the language)

This question is "No? So you are not Icelandic?"

So what are you? If you'd rather not say, just say that.
 
RabidMongoose said:
I'm a half Mongolian/half Peruvian who lives in Iceland.
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Ah well, I assumed you were from the US. I guess I got that from the way you followed COW around, and the usual other Anti Canadians on this board.
I've got relatives in Iceland, that have been there since day one.
Ingólfur Arnarson is practically my real name.
 
Frankly, I am well past the point of considering Islam a religion. It is much more what we consider to be a cult in the West with the added frisson of being a "whole life" totalitarian system of societal governance, judicial code and economic regulation.

Maybe that is a bit redundant as in most, if not all, cults you have the dominant person or class of "enlightened" that use the claimed aspect of divinity to enslave and then you have the rest as enforcers, serfs and cannon fodder. The rules vary but not the intended enslavement.

Over the years I have come to see that believers in a rote Koran are really only imbuing the old "divine right of kings" into a different, yet familiar, form.

The West, and thus Christianity, was pulled kicking and screaming into an Enlightenment. Much of the East, particularly where Buddhism came to flourish, and other places where thinking such as Taoism and Confucianism also went through their respective equivalents, also gained a high level of civilizing moderation.

One key to modern enlightenment, as opposed to divine revelation to the benefit of a privileged person or class, is that matters of faith and the element of divinity are, to a great degree, separated from government and law. In the totalitarian "faiths" such as Communism and in the totalitarian cults such as strict Islam, meaning mainstream Islam, they are not.

It is hard to imagine any level of tolerance of diversity coming from either Wahhabism or Shia with their strict adherence to the infallibility of Muhammad. Muhammad's word is law and his commands are contained in the Koran and must be followed verbatim, though some, like the Shia of Iran, also like to claim Muhammad's cousin and son-in-law Ali and other members of Muhammad's family and descendants are also infallible. Are you seeing the cultish aspects here yet?

I personally do not trust claims of divinity coming from murderous, misogynist, pedophile warlords just because they have visions and know how to win friends and influence people. How about you?

I am highly amused by the various homosexuals, women, libertines, liberals, alcohol drinkers, druggies and other infidels/unbelievers, etc. that support Islamic "rights" to propagate and enforce their cult through sharia, which just happens to target them for oppression and eventual elimination once they have no further use as slaves. It is by far the largest cult of intolerance in the world, and you want to sing kumbaya while they plan your elimination? Well, they will give you a chance to convert before they cut off your head. Will you take them up on their offer?

Of course, this is a broad generalization. There are more or less tolerant versions of Islam like the Bahá’í, but they are held to be apostates by those who claim to be pure(r) in their adherence to the Koran and thus to Mohammad and are regularly killed to get that point across.

I found this little video gives an introduction to what Islam is about...

Three Things About Islam

There is much more, but do remember, one of the rules of Islam is that lying to unbelievers is completely acceptable and encouraged so long as it furthers the cause of Islam (taquiyya.)
 
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JohnOfSheffield said:
Ekki? Svo þú ert ekki íslensku?

BTW, the first question was "Really, so where on Iceland do you live?" (you can't put that through a translator, Icelandic grammar doesn't translate well inte English grammar, you have to be able to speak the language)

This question is "No? So you are not Icelandic?"

So what are you? If you'd rather not say, just say that.
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I said to you: I don't speak Icelandic, in the way that a non-Icelandic speaker would say.

However, I am half-Mongolian/half-Peruvian and live in Iceland. It's pretty easy to get by speaking English.
 
RabidMongoose said:
What is 'real Sharia law'? Classical Sharia Law is kind of barbaric and disgusting (just like any other 1000 year old ideology would be), but I suppose most governments or people don't practice it to the letter anymore?
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RabidMongoose, Sharia law is simply the law of Islam. It has four sources, the Quran, the teachings and sayings of the Prophet, the consensus of educated scholars (both religious and standard) and common analogy.

The VAST majority of Muslim countries do NOT follow Sharia law. It is a (sick) interpretation of precedences that occurred hundreds of years ago. As stated before, the allowance of consensus of scholars provides interpretation. Where you have illiterate, power hungry a-holes in charge, you will have ridiculous, barbaric laws.

On the opposite spectrum, the allowance of interpretation and using analogy is provided by Islamic Law to make Islamic law compliant with current times where education and just common sensibilities can dictate laws.
 
PJABBER said:
I am highly amused by the various homosexuals, women, libertines, liberals, alcohol drinkers, druggies and other infidels/unbelievers, etc. that support Islamic "rights" to propagate and enforce their cult through sharia, which just happens to target them for oppression and eventual elimination once they have no further use as slaves. It is by far the largest cult of intolerance in the world, and you want to sing kumbaya while they plan your elimination? Well, they will give you a chance to convert before they cut off your head. Will you take them up on their offer?
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This is where many on the Left totally confuse me...they'll reach back hundreds of years to bring up dirt to broadly smear Christianity, but will bend over backwards to lash out against those who broadly smear Islam for all the evil currently being done in it's name.

Strange.
 
routan said:
RabidMongoose, Sharia law is simply the law of Islam. It has four sources, the Quran, the teachings and sayings of the Prophet, the consensus of educated scholars (both religious and standard) and common analogy.

The VAST majority of Muslim countries do NOT follow Sharia law. It is a (sick) interpretation of precedences that occurred hundreds of years ago. As stated before, the allowance of consensus of scholars provides interpretation. Where you have illiterate, power hungry a-holes in charge, you will have ridiculous, barbaric laws.

On the opposite spectrum, the allowance of interpretation and using analogy is provided by Islamic Law to make Islamic law compliant with current times where education and just common sensibilities can dictate laws.
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Thanks. However, what does Sharia Law - as you interpret it - say with regard to apostasy? Does the 'current times where education and just common sensibilities' override classical Sharia Law in this case?

I think that your version of it seems fine, where it is not strictly followed as written 1000+ years ago.
 
PJABBER and Doc Savage Fan... You guys are missing the point. You don't stop sharia law by making moderate Muslims all over the world think we're their enemy and are fighting a crusade against them. You do it by welcoming moderate Muslims when they build an interfaith community center and mosque 2 blocks from Ground Zero.

You guys are basically arguing that in order to stop Southern Baptists from teaching creationism in schools, I have to protest Catholic churches and burn prayer books to the Virgin Mary. It's a complete non sequitur.
 
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Throckmorton said:
PJABBER and Doc Savage Fan... You guys are missing the point. You don't stop sharia law by making moderate Muslims all over the world think we're their enemy and are fighting a crusade against them. You do it by welcoming moderate Muslims when they build an interfaith community center and mosque 2 blocks from Ground Zero.

You guys are basically arguing that in order to stop Southern Baptists who want to teach creationism in schools, I have to protest Catholic churches and burn prayer books to the Virgin Mary.
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I stated on several occasions that I'm OK with the NYC mosque. Also, I never advocated that we make enemies of moderate Muslims or make them think we are their enemies. And you say I'm the one missing the point? Wow.
 
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