A Microsoft Tablet???

[Deeko]

You are welcome to that opinion. I would say the way apple has emphasized iWork shows they don't necessarily agree with you either, but we'll see what happens. In my opinion it is shortsighted to say a tablet can't be productive. Perhaps current tablets aren't productive - that doesn't mean they can't be going forward.

 

[pcslookout]

I never feel productive on my iPad and always love coming back to my PC. Though that is just me. Though I find my tablet perfect for consuming content like watching video and surfing the web.

I wonder if it is normal to feel restrained on a tablet ? It doesn't help going from a 20 inch monitor either from my main PC. I wonder how people deal with it who have even larger monitors.

 

[Eug]

I don't use my iPad much either. Quite limiting.

But its support of productivity apps will improve with time I'm sure.

 

[HeXen]

Tablets by their nature don't make sense as productive machines. How can you be productive on a 10" screen?

exactly. its an entertainment device people, not a productive one. Why anyone would think otherwise is like thinking the Nintendo Wii should be a productive device too.

Could it be a productive device? for some sure. Eventually more tablets could be. but its really marketed and of course by limit of technology, simply an entertainment device.

 

[Eug]

For specific markets, tablets are most definitely productivity devices. However what makes them productivity devices is the software, and by software I mean specific apps.

Tablets in current form are not really fast enough and broadly supported enough to be generalized productivity devices, since the OS and general software isn't really built like that yet.

The whole point of MS's foray into tablets (this time around), however, is to bridge that gap. They've designed their next main general OS distribution with built-in and full-fledged tablet support, something no other major OS company has done. Not OS X, not Linux-on-the-desktop. Nobody.

They hope to be a leader here because these markets will eventually converge. It's inevitable.

However, the problem with MS here is like always, it seems their forced hybridization of these technology classes is just that, forced and a somewhat kludgy. They still have their same limitation with ARM based machines, having to keep the OS for ARM totally separate from the OS for x86. That said, there are signs of hope there with common hardware drivers, etc. However, even for their x86 OS version it's reportedly kludgy with people claiming Metro feels completely bolted on, and sometimes can negatively affect regular usage when you don't want to use Metro.

 

[wirednuts]

Talk about a huge amount of hype for an iPad clone, jeez. They're acting like they invented the tablet.

which is good marketing. they need to distinguish themselves and it doesnt really matter if its truth or lies.

 

[Dominato3r]

For specific markets, tablets are most definitely productivity devices. However what makes them productivity devices is the software, and by software I mean specific apps.

Tablets in current form are not really fast enough and broadly supported enough to be generalized productivity devices, since the OS and general software isn't really built like that yet.

The whole point of MS's foray into tablets (this time around), however, is to bridge that gap. They've designed their next main general OS distribution with built-in and full-fledged tablet support, something no other major OS company has done. Not OS X, not Linux-on-the-desktop. Nobody.

They hope to be a leader here because these markets will eventually converge. It's inevitable.

However, the problem with MS here is like always, it seems their forced hybridization of these technology classes is just that, forced and a somewhat kludgy. They still have their same limitation with ARM based machines, having to keep the OS for ARM totally separate from the OS for x86. That said, there are signs of hope there with common hardware drivers, etc. However, even for their x86 OS version it's reportedly kludgy with people claiming Metro feels completely bolted on, and sometimes can negatively affect regular usage when you don't want to use Metro.

They have to keep them separate. ARM just isn't there yet with power for them to offer some emulation/virtualization model for legacy applications

 

[HeXen]

For specific markets, tablets are most definitely productivity devices. However what makes them productivity devices is the software, and by software I mean specific apps.

Tablets in current form are not really fast enough and broadly supported enough to be generalized productivity devices, since the OS and general software isn't really built like that yet.

contradiction = entertainment device

 

[runawayprisoner]

You are welcome to that opinion. I would say the way apple has emphasized iWork shows they don't necessarily agree with you either, but we'll see what happens. In my opinion it is shortsighted to say a tablet can't be productive. Perhaps current tablets aren't productive - that doesn't mean they can't be going forward.

iWork on the iPad is not the same as iWork on Mac... by any long shot. The emphasis that Apple placed on iWork on iPad is totally different, and it's very clear that the iWork suite on the iPad can't be used as a serious productive tool.

And as mentioned, I also have serious doubts that anyone can get any serious Excel work done on a 10" screen... especially one where their fingers would most likely obscure a huge part of the screen while they try to interact with the spreadsheet.

 

[Dominato3r]

iWork on the iPad is not the same as iWork on Mac... by any long shot. The emphasis that Apple placed on iWork on iPad is totally different, and it's very clear that the iWork suite on the iPad can't be used as a serious productive tool.

And as mentioned, I also have serious doubts that anyone can get any serious Excel work done on a 10" screen... especially one where their fingers would most likely obscure a huge part of the screen while they try to interact with the spreadsheet.

Its .4inches smaller than a base mba. And I'm sure the mba sells well and people do some amount of words processing/slide presentations. Its the most popular apple computer on campus from what I've seen.

 

[runawayprisoner]

Its .4inches smaller than a base mba. And I'm sure the mba sells well and people do some amount of words processing/slide presentations. Its the most popular apple computer on campus from what I've seen.

The difference is that you don't touch the screen of the MBA, you can use a precise mouse to select cells that are smaller than your finger, and the MBA includes a keyboard with arrow keys and other things to make selections easier. Plus you can plug the MBA into a bigger screen for serious work.

It's the touchscreen that's the issue. Spreadsheet manipulating doesn't work as well. I know this because I have tried it on the Samsung Slate 7. Mouse and keyboard work far better.

But if you need to plug a mouse and keyboard into a computer to make it work, then I think you might as well buy an Ultrabook instead of the Surface. At least the keyboard is built in.

Plus I have serious doubts about typing on the flat cover of Surface. Whether it's glass or not, it's still... flat.

 

[destrekor]

The difference is that you don't touch the screen of the MBA, you can use a precise mouse to select cells that are smaller than your finger, and the MBA includes a keyboard with arrow keys and other things to make selections easier. Plus you can plug the MBA into a bigger screen for serious work.

It's the touchscreen that's the issue. Spreadsheet manipulating doesn't work as well. I know this because I have tried it on the Samsung Slate 7. Mouse and keyboard work far better.

But if you need to plug a mouse and keyboard into a computer to make it work, then I think you might as well buy an Ultrabook instead of the Surface. At least the keyboard is built in.

Plus I have serious doubts about typing on the flat cover of Surface. Whether it's glass or not, it's still... flat.

Well, there is the Type Cover - which has true keycaps and trackpad buttons.
How good it feels in use, remains to be seen. I want to demo it in a store if possible. Only 2mm thicker than the Touch Cover (5mm vs 3mm).


And there's the versatility aspect.... with the MBA - that keyboard is attached whether you want it or not - and you are without touch.
There is far more to compare, this is for sure. For starters, I suspect the MBA will still have the processing power edge in the long-run.
But with the Surface, you can attach a true keyboard with keycaps, tug the whole setup around with the keyboard "permanently" attached if so desired, or attach only when you want to sit down... on that note, I wonder how it holds up with the cover dock-like connector if you don't use the kickstand on the tablet... I suspect it won't remain upright, I'd like to be surprised - maybe the kickstand is good enough for lap-based usage, of course that would depend on how you are sitting. That is one thing to be concerned with if it's an important factor.
Moving on, I'd say it's still "useful" even if you want to add a true USB mouse; you have a keyboard and mouse for when you want to use them, and you can detach them and use it like a standard tablet when you don't need them.
Since the cover acts like a folding book cover (like Apple's), it doesn't really add any inconvenience for portability. If you don't want it, detach it and put it back in the bag until time to pack it all up again. And the trackpad is there if you want that type of usage (likely more important for the Windows 8 Pro model).

 

[dagamer34]

The difference is that you don't touch the screen of the MBA, you can use a precise mouse to select cells that are smaller than your finger, and the MBA includes a keyboard with arrow keys and other things to make selections easier. Plus you can plug the MBA into a bigger screen for serious work.

It's the touchscreen that's the issue. Spreadsheet manipulating doesn't work as well. I know this because I have tried it on the Samsung Slate 7. Mouse and keyboard work far better.

But if you need to plug a mouse and keyboard into a computer to make it work, then I think you might as well buy an Ultrabook instead of the Surface. At least the keyboard is built in.

Plus I have serious doubts about typing on the flat cover of Surface. Whether it's glass or not, it's still... flat.

People had doubts about typing on a touch keyboard. At least this one resembles a full size keyboard.

 

[BladeVenom]

The latest rumors are that the price for Intel based Surface tablets will be $999. http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/201...-for-windows-rt-999-for-windows-8-pro-models/

 

[Eug]

contradiction = entertainment device

Selective bolding on your part. Without the bolding the statement makes perfect sense.

With the appropriate applications, they are productivity devices for very specific usage. However, for generalized usage they aren't fast enough yet. You need more speed for that.

The Intel Surface Pro would easily be fast enough, but unfortunately, at $999 it's more expensive than it needs to be.

 

[kaerflog]

$599 and $999 are not realistic at this point.
Even when Apple released the first tablet when there was no other tablet to compete with, it was still reasonable at $499.
With all the competitions now, $599 is just not realistic.

 

[destrekor]

Selective bolding on your part. Without the bolding the statement makes perfect sense.

With the appropriate applications, they are productivity devices for very specific usage. However, for generalized usage they aren't fast enough yet. You need more speed for that.

The Intel Surface Pro would easily be fast enough, but unfortunately, at $999 it's more expensive than it needs to be.

I'll have to wait and see the full true spec list - but I imagine $1000 for a good i5 full Windows tablet that can function like a bastard step child of the MB Air and Ultrabooks when needed, and be turned into a wholly different style of usage in a true slate form... I'd be cool with that.
Granted, I'd like to spend less than $1000 for such - $800 or $900 - but with the internals and full Win8 x86 OS that that device brings, I'm not holding my breath.
Plus, full 1080p touchscreen plus Wacom digitizer?

I'm already imaging just how much use this thing would get from me.

Anything over $1000 - no way. Under 900 before tax? If finances line up, day one purchase. That $1000 price point will make be scrutinize it ever so slightly, wait for technical reviews and whatnot... but I'm thinking yes, do want.
As long as the full hardware package isn't severely lacking. It won't be a workhorse playing games (I have my desktop rig spec'd for that), but a decent GPU (likely Intel - perhaps one of their better ones?) for tablet-style entertainment/consumption would be nice. Using it vertically to read things, perhaps watch youtube and browse around, use it for any MS Office tasks if I want to be a little more comfortable or am away from home (could replace old Pentium Duo [or whatever it was] laptop I had for note taking in school.

Such a tablet will not be iPad-competitive pricing, and really... isn't even designed to compete with the iPad or other ARM-based tablets. This is something a little more special - their old x86 tablet approach, done right (with an OS designed for it). I always wanted that but they always sucked, quite a bit before their time for consumers.

Their ARM-based WinRT model, definitely needs to be, entry-level, less than $600. If they only have one model, it needs to be 500. If they offer a 16gb version or whatever, or two models one way or the other, one needs to be $500 or less if they expect sales. But a decently-speced machine will be good at $600 imho.
But unless Nvidia has something insane up their sleeves, I won't pay that much for a quadcore Tegra 3 tablet - hell no. The GPU is lacking, massively.
Too many awesome SOCs are due within the next 12-18 months to sink that kind of pretty penny into a device with that particular SOC... but, I'm not the average-minded consumer.
IMHO, any tablet priced around the iPad, needs to, at the very minimum, go toe-to-toe with the hardware inside the iPad.