so reconstruct the system to prevent those who DO do that kind of thing for ruining it for everyone else. Place limits on the time to collect so that the people who do just live on welfare and never work won't be abusing the system, while those who work won't suffer at all.
so reconstruct the system to prevent those who DO do that kind of thing for ruining it for everyone else. Place limits on the time to collect so that the people who do just live on welfare and never work won't be abusing the system, while those who work won't suffer at all.
busmaster11
It sounds as if we may be closer in agreement on this issue than it first appeared.
I assume by 'bushy' you mean Pres. Bush, the President of the United States?
I believe that many of the tax cuts are for small businesses. Private schooling will be competition for the state run schools. Now put the two together.
An institution with no competition will not be as effective as one that is competing. Children should get a better education in that case. The tax cuts will help the start up private schools and will give jobs to the people in the area.
Will it work out that well, I don't know. Is it better to try something than the status quo, I think most everyone could agree with that.
It sounds as if we may be closer in agreement on this issue than it first appeared.
I assume by 'bushy' you mean Pres. Bush, the President of the United States?
I believe that many of the tax cuts are for small businesses. Private schooling will be competition for the state run schools. Now put the two together.
An institution with no competition will not be as effective as one that is competing. Children should get a better education in that case. The tax cuts will help the start up private schools and will give jobs to the people in the area.
Will it work out that well, I don't know. Is it better to try something than the status quo, I think most everyone could agree with that.
I have a problem. May its just me, then again, maybe its just me, and the growing majority of americans who trust the single level-headed individual in the cabinet - Colin Powell more than the prez. The problem is I can't seem to trust Bush. just about everything he does seems to fit the category I have about how certain Republicans try to justify or disguie their lack of humanity.
I have great admiration for Republicans who believe in liberal causes, but who genuinely believe in the philosophy of "tough love" even more. In fact, though I will admit to voting almost down party lines due to my mistrust of Republicans, (As the party did grow out of racist origins, and many of them still support such causes; of course without being explicitly so) I will be the first to come out and say I was wrong and I apologize for taking the soft hearted approach if and when I'm wrong.
The parables in the Bible talk about giving up your grade, the shirt off your back, to walk the extra mile in the other person's shoes, all kinds of crap no self respecting business man would dream of doing. The Bible pushes a morally forced communism. Jesus was a flaming liberal and would have raged against the notion of some donkeys in robes grading people like cattle. He would have pointed out that politics of of Cesar and the kingdom of heaven is within you, that you have and are wasting your life in a wrong world just concerned with crap that's useless. Pay no attention to parables. They are the brainwashing tools of subversives.
- Positively spinning the turning down of Kyoto as America taking a leadership role and doing things the "right way" with our own plan, including pollution credits, which completely undermine the spirit of Kyoto in the first place. Tony Blair, who's nation's solidarity with the US is priceless, for those of us who actually acknowledge there are in fact human beings that aren't Americans, has even come right out and said what scientists have largely believed but been unheard: Kyoto isn't even enough...
- His willingness to act unilaterally, which according to CNN has been the top reason why America is hated in more and more places around the world. Not so much the actions as is the arrogance and lack of respect for the rights of other nations.
- The tax cuts themselves. Don't you think we could have used it during 9/11?
- The budget. Greenspan has come out publically wondering where the money comes from. Draining social security then minimizing its importance... Digging ourselves a sizable deficit.
To me, it shows what's at the top of his agenda - perpetuating the destructive and greedy habits of big industry and rich americans... Not too much humanity IMO...
-The irony in the Kyoto treaty is Japan itself would not have been able to comply based on the amounts of trash they burn.
-Tax cuts cause people to spend more, helping the economy.
-We have been using the social security fund to cover the budget for years and years, most people just weren't aware of it.
-LOL... Don't forget the other conspiracy theories - like the one about how Kyoto is actually a plan by the Japanese and the EU to weaken the US economy... It's a shame that some people can't even acknowledge the fact, even if they do stick their heads in the sand regarding possibilities of the greenhouse effect, that the planet is being irresponsibly polluted and deforrested in every way.
-Thats for the clarrification on the tax cut matter, because we've never heard that reasoning before.
-Were we spending social security during the Clinton years, when we had a sizable surplus most of the time?
not a conspiracy theory, it's a fact that Japan produces TONS of pollution burning trash (because they have no where to dump it.)
I responded directly to your post made in direct response to my post. I have to narrow it down some how, I can't respond to every post in the thread.
I don't think the 'allegory' intended to be a condemnation of all social welfare programs and all their recipients.
Indeed, the implicit 'target' of the allegory wasn't 'Mary' who was only managing a 2.0 GPA because she had to work 40 hours a week to put herself through college, or 'Mary' who was only managing a 2.0 GPA because she was stricken with bacterial meningitis mid-term, or 'Mary' who was only managing a 2.0 GPA because she spent the better part of one semester in a full-body cast after a head-on collision with a drunk driver. No.
The allegory EXPLICITLY targets 'Mary the party girl who CHOOSES to put partying and social life before her academics and thus manages only a 2.0 GPA.'
The "key" to understanding the point of the allegory is perfectly contained within it, and as I've already said, you utterly and completely missed it. But don't feel bad, you're not alone.
Thats because notfred, while not a bad guy, is most certainly an asshat in about 80% of the threads he posts in. Granted, the other 20% are good reading kinda posts. But sometimes I wonder why the hell he bothers posting (Case in point, this thread)
Ok, maybe its more 50 50. Either way......
When you factor that with the number of people in the world that hate us (China 1 billion plus, Middle East 1 billion plus, Cuba couple of tens of millions, and so on) you realize that the military budget compared to the budget of welfare is actually not so proportionally out of wack. Wonder if you even though of this, but guess you didnt.
I wouldnt mind giving a welfare system for 6 months after you get fired, but you can live off welfare for a couple of years thats BS. If it was a couple of months, I'd have no problem with that. I'm sure you'd agree with me on that one.
I agree with that but there's an old saying:
My point is don't let these people live on welfare for years, even a bird realizes to kick its young out of the nest and let the babys live on their own.
Thats the only thing i totally agree with you on, but i can never find someone smart enough to talk too
.It's wonderful that you brough that up. My father was in foster car and adobted into a family in superior, wisconsin. His adobted father was a lazy bum, and my father realized he would rather kill himself than live like that--they were poor. So he worked hard to earn money and get in to UW Madison: had a paper rout since he was 8, played both sides of the line in football, and was the second seat of his high school class. At madison he worked at the brathouse, not State Street Brats, full time while taking an average of 16 credits. He took off one year of school so he could earn enough to graduate. Then graduated in four years of school while having a full time job. Then on he worked at a major accounting firm then after a couple of years opened up his own firm (small him and two other accountants). And that is pretty much his life story--work-- and why would he do that? So his kids wouldn't have to grow up like him--the same thing should drive the fatherless children--but it doesnt.
Are you more deserving of the standard of living that you have than they are?[/quote]
No and i never said that, as you can see, i added thanks to my dad to honor him and his accomplishments.
As you can see you don't need someone help you get a good work ethic--but it sure helps.
PS. Just though it was funny that you didn't attack me when i said unlike most people I have a work ethic, guess you knew i was right on that one
.Democrats = experts at name calling and insulting.
But J.C. Watts understood this: "If liberals can't beat you, if they're losing on the issues, they do one of two things. They either call you a bigot or a racist. Or they sue you."
Mainly the way I'll be called a facist or be compared to the Nazis and Hitler; just because i don't agree with liberals 100% of the time. I'm getting sick of it and that's why Dennis Miller did a 180--he got sick of good people being called Nazis.
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
- 12,505
- 3
- 81
I bet she went to a public school and goes to a State funded university. I do not have children but I do not resent paying for their education and doing anything I can do to the help them grow up to be as well educated and healthy as possible.
I am still trying to figure out why people insist that goverment only benefit themselves and people like them.
The point is that we HAVE become a welfare state. Doing nothing is rewarded with the equivalent of up to $12.00/hr. Not to "Mary" who lost her family to a drunk driver, but to Joe Blow who has 5 kids by 4 women and we support them all because he will not work. Specifically for $8.50/hr even though he has very few job skills. Trust Joe worked for me. Part time. He never could get quite motivated enough to make 40 or heaven forbid 40+ hours. He lives off one of his "girls" assistence checks and shares their food from WIC and food stamps. And of course they live in Gov't. housing. They get high and enjoy life. Oh, and the state picked up the tab on all 5 childbirths.
Now explain to me clearly and concisely why we should pay for people who WILL NOT WORK!
Now explain to me clearly and concisely why we should pay for people who WILL NOT WORK!
The democrats would lose votes. That's the only logical reason for supporting a welfare system that we have.
You can recieve benifits for years, if it was 6 months I'd have no problem with that. But years of free money just promotes lazyness and hurts our society.
The people now vote to have us support them. A lot of people on this forum don't realize that their are people in this country that WOULD rather live in a box than work. We need to learn to allow them to do so.
Originally posted by: tcsenter
I responded directly to your post made in direct response to my post. I have to narrow it down some how, I can't respond to every post in the thread.I don't think the 'allegory' intended to be a condemnation of all social welfare programs and all their recipients.
Indeed, the implicit 'target' of the allegory wasn't 'Mary' who was only managing a 2.0 GPA because she had to work 40 hours a week to put herself through college, or 'Mary' who was only managing a 2.0 GPA because she was stricken with bacterial meningitis mid-term, or 'Mary' who was only managing a 2.0 GPA because she spent the better part of one semester in a full-body cast after a head-on collision with a drunk driver. No.
The allegory EXPLICITLY targets 'Mary the party girl who CHOOSES to put partying and social life before her academics and thus manages only a 2.0 GPA.'
The "key" to understanding the point of the allegory is perfectly contained within it, and as I've already said, you utterly and completely missed it. But don't feel bad, you're not alone.
again, it still simplifies real life. the free rider problem has ALWAYS existed and will always exist. The stockbroker that cheats, is he any less a free rider than the welfare bum?? the CPA that fudges books for large corporations, is he costing us any less money than the welfare bum?? Who costed our society more money, the welfare mothers or Arther Anderson??
so don't talk to me about the free rider problem it exists. It must be dealt with BUT you can't eliminate programs because the free rider problem exists. "you can't throw out the baby with the bath water".
btw, welfare isn't designed to help the mary's of the world (if you notice she is still passing). welfare is designed to help the frank's (who was working hard in college but because of his lack of intelligence was maintaining a 2.0 gpa, then his father died, and his apartment burned down and then his car was stolen and he missed some key classes.) would our 4.0 gpa student be willing to take time out of her day (even if it cost her some grades) and help this guy out??
yes, the mary's of the world exist, but not just on the welfare level. don't even tell me that white collar crimes don't happen and that they don't cost our society money. but the franks of the world also exist. we have chosen as a society to help the franks of the world. just because the mary's exist doesn't mean that you should eliminate the problems but work to weed out the franks.
explain to me how you think that welfare programs cost our society more money than say the arther andersons and all their mishaps over the past 10 years have cost us?? which is more of a burden on society??
these CPAs, Doctors, Lawyers, stockbrokers, business managers, all have bad fruits. those that try to take advantage of society, to cheat, to steal. guess what, all of these cost society. and i guarantee you without looking at the numbers that these have cost ME personally a lot more money than all the welfare bums in america put together. GUARANTEED.
you want to get rid of all free riders in society?? start at the top. start with those that are actually costing us the most money. start with the bad lawyers. talk to me about tort reform. talk to me about all those cpa's that lie, cheat and steal so their corporations can pay 2% less in taxes that year. talk to me about doctors that perform surguries that are NOT necessary because they had mortgages due that month.
i'm not saying all professionals are bad, BUT in every profession there are those that try to milk the system. guess what it is no different with welfare.
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
- 12,505
- 3
- 81
I have wondered about that too. Reagan knew he had struck a gold mine when he came up with that welfare queen hook of his.
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