A Liberal Changes her ways

[ElFenix]

grade inflation sucks

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: ProfessorFate
Was it Mark Twain who said:
You don't have a heart if you're not a Democrat when you're young, and you don't have a brain if you're not a Republican when you're older.

The quote is attributed to Winston Churchill though there seems to be some doubt if he said it.

0roo0roo

Are all Republicans the Christian fundie type that you describe, No? Then stop with the generalizations.

LeeTJ

Does fate have total control over our futures? Do we have any effect on it?

Does someone that works hard deserve the same reward as someone that doesn't?

 

[0roo0roo]

getting into a college because your pappa has money and connections is also unfair

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
getting into a college because your pappa has money and connections is also unfair

you're right. One of the biggest ironies I've heard in a long time was when george bush said that he was against affirmative action (in the michigan case). What is utterly ironic is that Bush got into Yale because his father and grandfather were alumnis and big contributors to the school. Furthermore, after coasting for four hard years, bush ended up with a C- GPA and got into Harvard Business School (after he was rejected by the University of Texas at Austin). For someone who has benefited so much from affirmative action, Bush has no right to argue against it.

 

[0roo0roo]

not to mention how spineless he really is on affirmative action(which i'm against) first he annouces that he's against it. then a day after he says quotas are ok. talk about double talk. integrity my ass.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: etech

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider A nineteen year old was about to finish her first year of college. She considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat and her father was a rather staunch Republican. One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs and his skepticism of programs like welfare. He stopped her and asked her how she was doing in school. She answered that she had a 4.0 GPA but it was really tough. She had to study all the time, never had time to go out and party and often went sleepless because all of the studying. She didn't have time for a boyfriend and didn't really have many college friends because of all her studying. He then asked about her friend Mary attending the same college. She replied that Mary was barely getting by. She had a 2.0 GPA, never studied, was very popular on campus and was at parties all the time. She often wouldn't show up for classes because she was hung over. He then asked his daughter why she didn't go to the dean's office and ask him to take 1 point off her 4.0 GPA and give it to her friend who only had a 2.0. That way they would both have a 3.0 GPA. She fired back and said "that wouldn't be fair, I worked really hard for mine and my friend has done nothing". After a moment of silence, she replied, "I'll never vote Democrat again" Years later she saw Mary again. Mary was living in a cardboard box. Seems she had gotten married and had a few children. All was well until a drunk driver coming back from a Republican fund raiser swerved into the oncoming lane and killed Mary's family. Mary went to pieces and in spite of therapy became an alcoholic and lost her job. Her husband, who had been unemployed after the Enron debacle had no insurance and had left her without a dime. Mary lost her home, had nothing to eat in days, and her clothes were in tatters. Mary saw our girl and was about to say something, but got cut off. "Loser! You are so disgusting. How could you live like this? Damn you. You probably take handouts from the state. My tax dollars wasted on the likes of you." She turned away without looking back, determined to complain to some agency about letting people like Mary clutter the streets at taxpayer expense. She had learned her lesson well. Post Script. Mary was so disheartened by this that she took her own life later that night One fake story is as good as the next.

I'm not sure I understand the point of your story. Are you saying that all of life is only controlled by fate and our actions have nothing to do with how well a person suceeds in life? Then if that is true there is no reason to work or strive for anything because it is all out of your hands anyway. Is that what you are trying to say?

No, but I am responding to something that I consider overly simplistic. Truthfully, I do not like the current welfare system for many reasons, however the notion that some seem to have that everything is within our control is simply not true. There ARE those who cannot overcome their circumstances. There ARE those who, through no fault of their own find themselves and their loved ones at a point where nothing they can do on their own will make things all better. Sometimes these programs ARE needed, but I would agree that they are often times taken advantage of. Still, saying a "can do" attitude is all that is needed is nonsense. If that is what it takes, "can do" yourself into immortality and eternal youth.

Edit- Churchill never would have said that, as he was British. Subsitiute Conservative and Liberal, although today that pretty amounts to the same thing.

 

[Jugernot]

Originally posted by: dahunan
A nineteen year old was about to finish her first year of college. She considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat and her father was a rather staunch Republican.

One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs and his skepticism of programs like welfare. He stopped her and asked her how she was doing in school. She answered that she had a 4.0 GPA but it was really tough. She had to study all the time, never had time to go out and party and often went sleepless because all of the studying. She didn't have time for a boyfriend and didn't really have many college friends because of all her studying.

He then asked about her friend Mary attending the same college. She replied that Mary was barely getting by. She had a 2.0 GPA, never studied, was very popular on campus and was at parties all the time. She often wouldn't show up for classes because she was hung over.

He then asked his daughter why she didn't go to the dean's office and ask him to take 1 point off her 4.0 GPA and give it to her friend who only had a 2.0. That way they would both have a 3.0 GPA.

She fired back and said "that wouldn't be fair, I worked really hard for mine and my friend has done nothing".

After a moment of silence, she replied, "I'll never vote Democrat again".



(this was borrowed from another website..)

Can't beleive I just wasted 30 seconds of my life reading that crap...

 

[rockyct]

Originally posted by: LeeTJ
anyone can make a parable fit his worldview. it doesn't mean anything.

it doesn't clarify anything. no one in their right mind would compare a partying student who is barely passing, to that guy that worked hard but got laid off.

oversimplification like that does the situation no justice because it nowhere near approximates truth. it only preaches to the choir and infuriates opponents because it purports to show and eternal truth when all it does is simplifies the problem.

having studied economics for 5 years, i can say on an idealistic level, i'm a laissez faire, free market, let the markets dictate kinda guy BUT on a political level, those answers don't always work. Most of you are too young to remember the depression (actually i am too BUT) in situations like that you can preach free market, minimalize government, but that wouldn't have been the right answer.

Federal government projects and work programs helped the economy recover 10 to 15 years sooner than if they had just let the market go. can you honestly say that it wasn't worth it? how many starving people would you have to see before you decided that it was enough??

theoretically, market friction should be very minimal, in reality this isn't true. there is always market friction, as the economy changes and evolves, as our economy moves to different industries, people get hurt economically.

you could say taxes are like insurance, it's a pot we all contribute too so that if we are the ones hit with the friction we can take from that pot and it will help us to recover.

sometimes people need a helping hand.

Finally, a person that makes a decent, well thought out arguement.

 

[halik]

yeah, oversimplified false analogy ....

you can come up with anti - republican happy ending. Mary's new GPA (3.0) allowed her to continue her education in the grad school and eventually she received her PHD in Poli Sci. This in turn allowed her to solve the Israeli/Palestinian confilict via peacefull and diplomatic ways, saving milluions of lives.

And to think all that happened only because of socialist GPA. She never voted republican again...


If we're doing Sci-Fi, it migth as well be amusing

 

[flavio]

Mary can blow me.

 

[Ferocious]

lol.

One my key gripes about most Republicans........the unwillingness to be accountable for oneself's actions.

They always want to blame others.

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: rockyct

Originally posted by: LeeTJ
anyone can make a parable fit his worldview. it doesn't mean anything.

it doesn't clarify anything. no one in their right mind would compare a partying student who is barely passing, to that guy that worked hard but got laid off.

oversimplification like that does the situation no justice because it nowhere near approximates truth. it only preaches to the choir and infuriates opponents because it purports to show and eternal truth when all it does is simplifies the problem.

having studied economics for 5 years, i can say on an idealistic level, i'm a laissez faire, free market, let the markets dictate kinda guy BUT on a political level, those answers don't always work. Most of you are too young to remember the depression (actually i am too BUT) in situations like that you can preach free market, minimalize government, but that wouldn't have been the right answer.

Federal government projects and work programs helped the economy recover 10 to 15 years sooner than if they had just let the market go. can you honestly say that it wasn't worth it? how many starving people would you have to see before you decided that it was enough??

theoretically, market friction should be very minimal, in reality this isn't true. there is always market friction, as the economy changes and evolves, as our economy moves to different industries, people get hurt economically.

you could say taxes are like insurance, it's a pot we all contribute too so that if we are the ones hit with the friction we can take from that pot and it will help us to recover.

sometimes people need a helping hand.

Finally, a person that makes a decent, well thought out arguement.

and yet it has some flaws.

having studied economics for 5 years, i can say on an idealistic level, i'm a laissez faire, free market, let the markets dictate kinda guy BUT on a political level, those answers don't always work. Most of you are too young to remember the depression (actually i am too BUT) in situations like that you can preach free market, minimalize government, but that wouldn't have been the right answer.

Federal government projects and work programs helped the economy recover 10 to 15 years sooner than if they had just let the market go. can you honestly say that it wasn't worth it? how many starving people would you have to see before you decided that it was enough??

There has been much written about the "new deal" and how much it helped the economy. Many economists beleive that it actually slowed the return to that came only with the war machine kicking to to full gear for WW2. While it may have kept food on the table of some it also hurt them because companies were not hiring to increase productivity do to the fact there was very little insentive to take the risk, due to an increased tax burden. The problem with the governement trying to dictate the flow of the economy is that for every dollar the governement spends it costs someone somewhere that dollar and that dollar is spent in a very non-effceint way. Keynesian economics do not work. The government can not spurn the economy by spending.

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: rockyct

Originally posted by: LeeTJ
anyone can make a parable fit his worldview. it doesn't mean anything.

it doesn't clarify anything. no one in their right mind would compare a partying student who is barely passing, to that guy that worked hard but got laid off.

oversimplification like that does the situation no justice because it nowhere near approximates truth. it only preaches to the choir and infuriates opponents because it purports to show and eternal truth when all it does is simplifies the problem.

having studied economics for 5 years, i can say on an idealistic level, i'm a laissez faire, free market, let the markets dictate kinda guy BUT on a political level, those answers don't always work. Most of you are too young to remember the depression (actually i am too BUT) in situations like that you can preach free market, minimalize government, but that wouldn't have been the right answer.

Federal government projects and work programs helped the economy recover 10 to 15 years sooner than if they had just let the market go. can you honestly say that it wasn't worth it? how many starving people would you have to see before you decided that it was enough??

theoretically, market friction should be very minimal, in reality this isn't true. there is always market friction, as the economy changes and evolves, as our economy moves to different industries, people get hurt economically.

you could say taxes are like insurance, it's a pot we all contribute too so that if we are the ones hit with the friction we can take from that pot and it will help us to recover.

sometimes people need a helping hand.

Finally, a person that makes a decent, well thought out arguement.

you will notice that no one has really tried to argue against it. they just ignore it.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

For a real world situation, she would have a 15.0 gpa, and her friend would work just as hard.

 

[glenn1]

My version of the story....


A nineteen year old was about to finish her first year of college. She considered herself to be a very conservative Republican and her father was a rather staunch Libertarian. One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs and his skepticism of programs like welfare. He stopped her and asked her how she was doing in school. She answered that she had a 4.0 GPA but it was really tough. She had to study all the time, never had time to go out and party and often went sleepless because all of the studying. She didn't have time for a boyfriend and didn't really have many college friends because of all her studying.

He then asked about her friend Mary attending the same college. She replied that Mary was barely getting by. She had a 2.0 GPA, didn't study as much as she did, worked night shift at the local diner, was very popular on campus and was at parties whenever she had the time. She sometimes wouldn't show up for classes because she was hung over or exhausted from work.

He then asked his daughter why she didn't go to the dean's office and ask him to take 1 point off her 4.0 GPA and give it to her friend who only had a 2.0. That way they would both have a 3.0 GPA. She fired back and said "that wouldn't be fair, I worked really hard for mine."

Her father's response? "Except for the fact that she's paying her own way through college, and you're accepting government loans, she's paying for those loans out of her paycheck. You go to school full-time and don't work, so i wind up paying for the rest of your tuition that she and other taxpayers don't. No wonder your GPA is higher than hers, you have every advantage in being able to achieve that. I'd be ashamed if it wasn't higher."

After a moment of silence, she replied, "I'll never vote Democrat *OR* Republican again".

THE END

 

[Dark54555]

the sad thing is it takes extreme examples like this (and the AA bakesale) to prove how useless programs like welfare and affirmative action really are to some people.

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: Dark54555
the sad thing is it takes extreme examples like this (and the AA bakesale) to prove how useless programs like welfare and affirmative action really are to some people.

this proves no such thing. Welfare is necessary.

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: dahunan
A nineteen year old was about to finish her first year of college. She considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat and her father was a rather staunch Republican.

One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs and his skepticism of programs like welfare. He stopped her and asked her how she was doing in school. She answered that she had a 4.0 GPA but it was really tough. She had to study all the time, never had time to go out and party and often went sleepless because all of the studying. She didn't have time for a boyfriend and didn't really have many college friends because of all her studying.

He then asked about her friend Mary attending the same college. She replied that Mary was barely getting by. She had a 2.0 GPA, never studied, was very popular on campus and was at parties all the time. She often wouldn't show up for classes because she was hung over.

He then asked his daughter why she didn't go to the dean's office and ask him to take 1 point off her 4.0 GPA and give it to her friend who only had a 2.0. That way they would both have a 3.0 GPA.

She fired back and said "that wouldn't be fair, I worked really hard for mine and my friend has done nothing".

After a moment of silence, she replied, "I'll never vote Democrat again".



(this was borrowed from another website..)

Republicans = experts at justifying a lack of humanity...

 

[Dark54555]

necessary for what? welfare in its current state is a joke. reform the system, maybe it'd work. For example, time limits on how long you could collect, mandatory birth control for women on welfare, etc. Then maybe it would be a viable system, and it would eliminate many of the leeches on society.

(I'm talking about welfare, not social security; social security is a much more useful system.)

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: bsobel

Hey...I think the stick up your ass has a stick in it's sticks ass.

I love the fact that every thread I see you in has you resorting to name calling against those who don't agree with you (watching you try to argue the 'under god' in the pledge was hillarious). One note tho, if your going to insult people do it with some style. Your certainly no Red Dawn.

Bill

What was so funny about my arguments in the thread about the Pledge of Allegiance? Was it funny because you didn't understand the subject? Or was it funny because it disagreed with your views? I based my argument on research and reading of Constitutional scholars, judges, and historians. What do you base yours on?

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: dahunan
A nineteen year old was about to finish her first year of college. She considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat and her father was a rather staunch Republican.

One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs and his skepticism of programs like welfare. He stopped her and asked her how she was doing in school. She answered that she had a 4.0 GPA but it was really tough. She had to study all the time, never had time to go out and party and often went sleepless because all of the studying. She didn't have time for a boyfriend and didn't really have many college friends because of all her studying.

He then asked about her friend Mary attending the same college. She replied that Mary was barely getting by. She had a 2.0 GPA, never studied, was very popular on campus and was at parties all the time. She often wouldn't show up for classes because she was hung over.

He then asked his daughter why she didn't go to the dean's office and ask him to take 1 point off her 4.0 GPA and give it to her friend who only had a 2.0. That way they would both have a 3.0 GPA.

She fired back and said "that wouldn't be fair, I worked really hard for mine and my friend has done nothing".

After a moment of silence, she replied, "I'll never vote Democrat again".



(this was borrowed from another website..)

Republicans = experts at justifying a lack of humanity...

busmaster11,

Go into the large housing projects that were set up in the name of humanity. Tell me again how well they have worked and have helped the people living there out of poverty.

Republicans are for actually helping people, not putting them on the dole to create a voter base.

 

[stormbv]

That story is so touching it makes me want to make false blanket statements about people on welfare.

 

[Dark54555]

Originally posted by: stormbv
That story is so touching it makes me want to make false blanket statements about people on welfare.

all stereotypes have some element of truth in them. remember that.

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: etech

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: dahunan
A nineteen year old was about to finish her first year of college. She considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat and her father was a rather staunch Republican.

One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs and his skepticism of programs like welfare. He stopped her and asked her how she was doing in school. She answered that she had a 4.0 GPA but it was really tough. She had to study all the time, never had time to go out and party and often went sleepless because all of the studying. She didn't have time for a boyfriend and didn't really have many college friends because of all her studying.

He then asked about her friend Mary attending the same college. She replied that Mary was barely getting by. She had a 2.0 GPA, never studied, was very popular on campus and was at parties all the time. She often wouldn't show up for classes because she was hung over.

He then asked his daughter why she didn't go to the dean's office and ask him to take 1 point off her 4.0 GPA and give it to her friend who only had a 2.0. That way they would both have a 3.0 GPA.

She fired back and said "that wouldn't be fair, I worked really hard for mine and my friend has done nothing".

After a moment of silence, she replied, "I'll never vote Democrat again".



(this was borrowed from another website..)

Republicans = experts at justifying a lack of humanity...

busmaster11,

Go into the large housing projects that were set up in the name of humanity. Tell me again how well they have worked and have helped the people living there out of poverty.

Republicans are for actually helping people, not putting them on the dole to create a voter base.

I don't doubt that thats true for many Republicans, as it was an unfair blanket statement, much like everything else thats said around here. But I do believe that it is also a guise for those of us who do lack humanity.

I am not for all liberal causes, in fact, I don't know that I am for 60% of them. I am certainly not in the corner of those f@#ing morons who fly to IRAQ to try to defend the damn place. And I am certainly not for projects which pour money into liberal causes with no hope of accountability of a return for the investments. I do support programs that school or train individuals and provide them with incentives such as a JOB for becoming a functioning part of society. To that end, however, won't you please tell me how bushy's tax cuts and spending on private schooling as opposed to public will help? (Try to find a private school within 10 blocks of the Chicago projects...)

 

[stormbv]

Originally posted by: Dark54555

Originally posted by: stormbv
That story is so touching it makes me want to make false blanket statements about people on welfare.

all stereotypes have some element of truth in them. remember that.

Yes, taking the actions of a few people and applying those characteristics to the whole group is very representative. Before you know it, almost all mothers that are on welfare are going at it like rabbits so they can get a bigger welfare check and support their addiction to crack.