A History of Taxes

[Amplifier]

1900's Middle Class> So what you're saying this income tax is only going to punish the rich and we won't have to pay it?
Government> Yup!

1940's Middle Class> So this social security tax is going into a secure account and won't be used for anything else? And the rich will have to pay for most of it?
Government> Yup!

1970's Middle Class> So this Alternative Minimum Tax is only to punish the rich and won't affect us?
Government> Yup!

2000's Middle Class> Could you think up more tax programs to punish the rich?
Government> No problem, we hate rich people too

 

[So]

Hey, ever notice how the government sticking their noses in always makes things worse? Me too!

 

[Quasmo]

2010's Middle Class> So I only have to pay taxes when I purchase something, no income tax?
Government> Yup!

well.... atleast I can dream... go Flat Tax.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Quasmo
2010's Middle Class> So I only have to pay taxes when I purchase something, no income tax?
Government> Yup!

well.... atleast I can dream... go Flat Tax.

Sounds more like a nightmare to me, especially since the tax would be around 25%! :Q

 

[Quasmo]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Quasmo
2010's Middle Class> So I only have to pay taxes when I purchase something, no income tax?
Government> Yup!

well.... atleast I can dream... go Flat Tax.

Sounds more like a nightmare to me.

you get to keep your whole pay check... whats wrong with that?

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Quasmo

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Quasmo
2010's Middle Class> So I only have to pay taxes when I purchase something, no income tax?
Government> Yup!

well.... atleast I can dream... go Flat Tax.

Sounds more like a nightmare to me.

you get to keep your whole pay check... whats wrong with that?

LMAO, what a joke. Yeah you get your whole paycheck, it is just going to be buying 25% less.

Just think about how insane that is. The government taking 25% of every purchase. I want a piece of that racket!

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Quasmo

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Quasmo
2010's Middle Class> So I only have to pay taxes when I purchase something, no income tax?
Government> Yup!

well.... atleast I can dream... go Flat Tax.

Sounds more like a nightmare to me.

you get to keep your whole pay check... whats wrong with that?

LMAO, what a joke. Yeah you get your whole paycheck, it is just going to be buying 25% less.

Just think about how insane that is. The government taking 25% of every purchase. I want a piece of that racket!

I tend to agree. The middle class would find out quicky, IMO, that they spend a larger portion of their income for goods and would find out quickly that their tax rate is indeed higher than before.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Quasmo

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Quasmo
2010's Middle Class> So I only have to pay taxes when I purchase something, no income tax?
Government> Yup!

well.... atleast I can dream... go Flat Tax.

Sounds more like a nightmare to me.

you get to keep your whole pay check... whats wrong with that?

LMAO, what a joke. Yeah you get your whole paycheck, it is just going to be buying 25% less.

Just think about how insane that is. The government taking 25% of every purchase. I want a piece of that racket!

So you're saying that by taking the same money, you're somehow going to be paying more? Seems to me like you need to go back to math class.

The real issue is an economic one. By switching from an income tax -- which penalizes people for saving to a sales tax, which penalizes people for spending, we are lible to spark a reduction in the sales of consumer goods and an increase in the american savings rate. Both saving and spending are good things and must be watched carefully. So we must decide...do we need to increase the national savings rate enough to be willing to sacrifice consumer spending? If not, then the only rational system to go with is a flat (income) tax.

P.S. It won't be 25%

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Quasmo

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Quasmo
2010's Middle Class> So I only have to pay taxes when I purchase something, no income tax?
Government> Yup!

well.... atleast I can dream... go Flat Tax.

Sounds more like a nightmare to me.

you get to keep your whole pay check... whats wrong with that?

LMAO, what a joke. Yeah you get your whole paycheck, it is just going to be buying 25% less.

Just think about how insane that is. The government taking 25% of every purchase. I want a piece of that racket!

So you're saying that by taking the same money, you're somehow going to be paying more? Seems to me like you need to go back to math class.

The real issue is an economic one. By switching from an income tax -- which penalizes people for saving to a sales tax, which penalizes people for spending, we are lible to spark a reduction in the sales of consumer goods and an increase in the american savings rate. Both saving and spending are good things and must be watched carefully. So we must decide...do we need to increase the national savings rate enough to be willing to sacrifice consumer spending? If not, then the only rational system to go with is a flat (income) tax.

P.S. It won't be 25%

Considering that 2/3's of the US economy = consumer spending, you take a guess what the government wants.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Quasmo
2010's Middle Class> So I only have to pay taxes when I purchase something, no income tax?
Government> Yup!

well.... atleast I can dream... go Flat Tax.

Actually, you mean Fair Tax.

 

[huberm]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Quasmo

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Quasmo
2010's Middle Class> So I only have to pay taxes when I purchase something, no income tax?
Government> Yup!

well.... atleast I can dream... go Flat Tax.

Sounds more like a nightmare to me.

you get to keep your whole pay check... whats wrong with that?

LMAO, what a joke. Yeah you get your whole paycheck, it is just going to be buying 25% less.

Just think about how insane that is. The government taking 25% of every purchase. I want a piece of that racket!

they are really taking about that much already, if not more.

Count up all of the stupid taxes you have to pay for a year, I betcha it will come close to 50% of your income (as did mine).

 

[Apex]

Originally posted by: Quasmo
2010's Middle Class> So I only have to pay taxes when I purchase something, no income tax?
Government> Yup!

well.... atleast I can dream... go Flat Tax.

That would rock, but the great unwashed would never let something like that happen.

You ALWAYS want to punish (tax) what you want to discourage, and subsidize what you want to encourage.

Taxing consumption is a great idea as it encourages savings & investment, something America needs badly.

Instead, we tax higher earnings, and subsidize not working. Yay, brilliant.

 

[iwantanewcomputer]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Quasmo
2010's Middle Class> So I only have to pay taxes when I purchase something, no income tax?
Government> Yup!

well.... atleast I can dream... go Flat Tax.

Actually, you mean Fair Tax.

the problem with a fair tax or 100% sales tax is that it would greatly encourage the black market selling of goods and services. There is not much of an incentive to look on the black market for things with 5-10% sasles tax, but 25% would make people and buisnesses always looking for a way around it. It is wasier for the government to keep track of income than sales tax.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: Quasmo
2010's Middle Class> So I only have to pay taxes when I purchase something, no income tax?
Government> Yup!

well.... atleast I can dream... go Flat Tax.

A flat tax would be quite different from what you described. Ideally it would apply to all income no matter what the source with no favors or social engineering attempts written into it so that everyone pays the same percentage period. No change in rates for marriage, kids, mortgages etc, just x% of whatever you made. Furthermore I don't want it taken from me interest free throughout the year, just send me a bill. If the government is really concerned that people in 2006 can't manage to do what people in 1940 did routinely then phase it in by having my withholding go to a special account that pays interest that I transfer the taxes owed out of when they are due. Then people would actually know what they are paying in total tax each year instead of looking at tax day as the time when they get their overpayment back and brag to everyone how they got back x thousand dollars this year. I would much prefer that to a national sales tax.

 

[Siddhartha]

First reduce the size of the military by 50 to 75%, to a size that is large enough to protect the US borders. Then talk about paying less taxes.

 

[SampSon]

I'll pass on the fair tax and "flat tax".

I'd much rather prefer very high tariffs for products that are imported from other countries. Extra taxes for countries that export more to us than they import from us.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Quasmo

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Quasmo
2010's Middle Class> So I only have to pay taxes when I purchase something, no income tax?
Government> Yup!

well.... atleast I can dream... go Flat Tax.

Sounds more like a nightmare to me.

you get to keep your whole pay check... whats wrong with that?

LMAO, what a joke. Yeah you get your whole paycheck, it is just going to be buying 25% less.

Just think about how insane that is. The government taking 25% of every purchase. I want a piece of that racket!

When you pay more than 25% in taxes this seems like a very good idea to me.

I'm all for it.

 

[xSauronx]

Originally posted by: huberm

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Quasmo

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Quasmo
2010's Middle Class> So I only have to pay taxes when I purchase something, no income tax?
Government> Yup!

well.... atleast I can dream... go Flat Tax.

Sounds more like a nightmare to me.

you get to keep your whole pay check... whats wrong with that?

LMAO, what a joke. Yeah you get your whole paycheck, it is just going to be buying 25% less.

Just think about how insane that is. The government taking 25% of every purchase. I want a piece of that racket!

they are really taking about that much already, if not more.

Count up all of the stupid taxes you have to pay for a year, I betcha it will come close to 50% of your income (as did mine).

i recall reading last year somewhere that someone studied it and the average was just over 40% of all your money ended up in the hands of local/state/federal govt

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: SampSon
I'll pass on the fair tax and "flat tax".

I'd much rather prefer very high tariffs for products that are imported from other countries. Extra taxes for countries that export more to us than they import from us.

I don't see how that could work in todays economy given how much we import. We've gone too far down the road away from a manufacturing based economy and I suspect that trying to go back in the other direction would be very painful for decades since it took us decades to move away from it.

 

[fallensight]

Replacing the tax system we have with a 'flat tax' or with a national sales tax are really just a move to offload more taxes from the rich to the poor. Every dollar the poor people make, they spend, and hence, get whatever the national sales tax would be, on everything. Wealthy people do not spend the lions share of thier income, it its in banks, stocks, bonds, realestate, or precious metals.

the giant whole in the 'encouraging savings and investment' theory, is that a very large(and growing) segment of the population, lives paycheck to paycheck. There simply is no money there to save or invest, it goes all to cover living. Adding a national sales tax on to the sate and local sales taxes, would create a situation where people simply could not make it at thier current standard of living. That would very likl;y lead to a very serious economic collapse. The hardest peple pushing the change to the tax system are those who benifit the most from it. Yeah, the current system is a bit of a mess, but the flat tax, or sales tax ideas would lead to much worse situations.

 

[puffff]

Originally posted by: SampSon
I'll pass on the fair tax and "flat tax".

I'd much rather prefer very high tariffs for products that are imported from other countries. Extra taxes for countries that export more to us than they import from us.

I'd also suggesting taxing the sh!t out of goods like cigarettes. Less people smoking, fewer health problems in the future, less burden on our healthcare system in the future. Tax the sh!t out of fast food too. Cut back on obesity. Higher taxes on heavier low mpg cars, better for the environment.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Siddhartha
First reduce the size of the military by 50 to 75%, to a size that is large enough to protect the US borders. Then talk about paying less taxes.

not too bright are you?

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: puffff

Originally posted by: SampSon
I'll pass on the fair tax and "flat tax".

I'd much rather prefer very high tariffs for products that are imported from other countries. Extra taxes for countries that export more to us than they import from us.

I'd also suggesting taxing the sh!t out of goods like cigarettes. Less people smoking, fewer health problems in the future, less burden on our healthcare system in the future. Tax the sh!t out of fast food too. Cut back on obesity. Higher taxes on heavier low mpg cars, better for the environment.

This is the whole problem with our tax system today and why it is so ridiculously complicated. The tax system is supposed to provide for the costs of government, not to serve as a nanny system to modify behavior.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: SampSon
I'll pass on the fair tax and "flat tax".

I'd much rather prefer very high tariffs for products that are imported from other countries. Extra taxes for countries that export more to us than they import from us.

that's against WTO rules. which means they'll just tariff us back and we'd all lose. take economics.

 

[Amplifier]

Originally posted by: fallensight
Replacing the tax system we have with a 'flat tax' or with a national sales tax are really just a move to offload more taxes from the rich to the poor.

Middle Class'1> Hey, I just noticed we pay a lot higher percentage of our income in taxes and compliance than the upper class. Maybe I'll check this flat tax thing out.
Middle Class'2> No way, that's what they want you to think. A flat tax favors the wealthy.
Middle Class'1> How so? It seems like when we account for the econom....
Middle Class'2> BOOO!
Middle Class'1> ahhh! What the hell man?
Middle Class'2> Flat tax, it's um bad and stuff.
Middle Class'1> But it's shown to be responsible for substancial growth in other countries...
Middle Class'2> We must punish the rich!