A good piece on why everyone was wrong, from Real Clear Politics

[Zaap]

People STILL falling for the agentdoof troll.

How bored are some folks?

 

[agent00f]

So you are without substance, and holding no argument of merit.

Michigan is one article, Pennsylvania the other. The last two states that decided the election.
And what is wrong with demonstrating the economic conditions of rural Michigan two years ago?
At this point you are reaching so hard to discount the economic argument. You are going to extremes to finger these voters as racists.
Their condition has not magically changed in two years! That you could discount those articles reeks of trolling.

The gallop study came out in august. It contains actual data about people voting for him instead of some random article from over two years ago you liked, which btw is called motivated thinking, ie reaching in this case. I suggest you read it for info directly pertinent to the election, instead of being swayed by whatever PR makes you emotionally satisfied.

Speaking of which, as you might've read in my other reply to you, I've reconsidered my own idealism in these matters, and be taking a more pragmatic approach to politics instead of attributing virtues to people I want to be true.

 

[agent00f]

Hehe. I haven't posted much for some time now. What would be the point. I'm not educated. In fact I'm kind of the reverse. Not much of what I was taught as truth ever stuck. I actually suspect it's this inner blankness, this lack of knowing the kinds of things you know, not being stuffed full of inculcated opinion, that enables me to spot the kind of post you just made as the kind that are full of shit. I saw Trump coming the day he announced because I know all about self hate. So I don't post much, not because I'm apparently way more of a genius than you are, but because I'm a liberal who doesn't have the liberal brain defect and like conservative brain defectives they can't be reached. So again, I don't post much pre and post election right now because I would hate myself for it. I knew what would happen and my dear liberals paid no attention. All they could do was rant and rave about how stupid conservatives are as per their brain defects. What would be the point in trying to punish them for it, to smugly say I told you so? They can't help themselves anymore than you can. So watch as you try to shame and belittle them how little it will do for your soul.

Remember, you ridicule the notion of self hate because it is true of you and the rest of the human race. But remember too that while you feel it is true it is in fact a lie.

Practically speaking, the democrats' carrot approach of doing kindness for people has obviously failed. So not only is it rhetorically time for the stick, but repeating kindness to people set on revenge only emboldens the kind of behavior seen in this election. The clear solution going forward is allowing republicans to cause ruin in the areas that vote for them, eg withholding development funds much as possible, and teaching a lasting lesson that leaves some scars. It would be better if democrats assisted in this endeavor for their own sake, but watching the progress of the last few days leaves the impression that their mental defects prevents this.

Therefore I would suggest to folks previously blinded by the idealism of greater good to instead do what's effective, and strategically vote republican until such times call for different. I would for example consider trump looting social security for the current retirees to be a "win" in the scheme of things. Whatever fed tax cuts in the blue locales no doubt be cycled by local democrats to take care of their own. Maybe a few frozen bodies in the streets, particularly in red areas, would do the country some good.

People STILL falling for the agentdoof troll.

How bored are some folks?

If your mind were capable of creating anything worth saying, it would have replaced the words in the quoted post.

 

[sportage]

There is really nothing that complicated to explain Trump's win.
Trump was a celebrity, and that was that.
A showman. Outrageous. Funny. Entertaining. Rough. Abusive.
Trump thumbed his nose at the establishment regardless of party, and that made him quite popular with the electorate.
And with the media, frankly.

We forget that back during the primaries everyone in the media was rooting for Trump.
The media loved watching Trump tear apart the establishment, and so wickedly too.
Remember?
Every single time, regardless of Fox or MSNBC or CNN or their political slant, but every time Trump started a rally the TV news would stop everything and "join Donald Trump's rally in progress".
They wanted to see what Trump would say next.
And so did we...
If Trump would yell at someone in the crowd.
If trump would get mad and say "toss em out. get em out of here. throw the bum out".
And as the circus became larger than life, Trump beat all the odds and won.

Then, at some point the media realized this guy could actually win the grand prize, the presidency, and the press, the media, the establishment, and a few people began to panic.
But it was too late.
The only reason the people voted Trump was because they could not imagine life without him.
The people wanted to see this guy who thumbs his nose at everything he dislikes, up there giving em hell for the next 4 years.

And face it...
A majority of the public long long ago had lost all respect for the establishment and for the institutions of government.
So for most people, turning to Donald Trump was not that big of a deal.
That for them involved little effort.
And remember.... he is a celebrity.
People of all ages, all colors, all political affiliations, all race, all creeds, and all religion simply "LOVE" a celebrity.
Trump had it in the bag.

As far as Hillary goes, a lot of people might have liked her and what she stood for and would have stood for as president, but even more people did not like her.
Including a huge chunk of that democratic base which typically vote democratic.
Hispanics, Blacks, and women.
Hillary lost them over the blinding glare of celebritism.
Then... toss into the mix old Bill Clinton, and that Clinton team hit the people as too old school.

Botton line.....
Everyone should have seen this coming.
Trump's celebrity status got him thru the primaries, so it really wasn't that surprising the same would also carry him through the election, plopping him right into the oval office.
Religion, morals, words, attitude, that did not matter, not this time.
People from all walks of life put everything aside, or better put... sold out, and were blinded by the celebrity of Donald Trump.

I suppose democrats "may have" had a chance if they only had ran Oprah or Ben Affleck or even Brad Pitt.
And if democrats hope to win come 2020, one of those listed three should do it.
When going up against celebrity, you need a celebrity. Not a politician.

Electing Trump and allowing the republicans to take over will one day be known as the first disaster.
What happens after January 20th 2017 will be known as the final blow.
And while most people, the press, and the media will enjoy watching president Donald Trump entertain from the oval office, the republican establishment will be busy behind the scenes hell bent wth turning back the clock.
Turning back the clock for marriage equality, women rights, minority rights, all aspects of the social safety net, and shredding away our healthcare.
And I doubt one single person bothers to take note, other than those directly affected by what is about to happen to their lives.

So we will march, protest, scream and shout, but none of that will matter.
The people are no longer in control, the republicans are.

And it would be nice if yet another big hearted patriotic American sitting out there (i.e. another Barack Obama) might jump in come 2020 to save us poor schmucks from our own ignorance.
Yes, that would be very nice indeed.
But sadly, I doubt we will ever again be so lucky.
Nowhere in the future will a second shining knight come along and save us from ourselves, as Obama saved us from the ravages of GW.
No, lightening never strikes twice. Especially in a good way.
Face it... we're all royally screwed this time, BIG TIME.

By end of 2020, republicans will have rigged the system so completely and thoroughly that should some shining knight dare show his or her face, he or she would essentially be DOA.
Republicans will ensure that nothing like a Barack Obama ever happen again.
No more shining knights.
The Koch Brothers and the Sheldon Adelson's will make damn sure of that.

 

[Moonbeam]

agent00f: Practically speaking, the democrats' carrot approach of doing kindness for people has obviously failed.

M: Assuming of course that you have some real notion of what is actually practical and what failure really is. I don't think you do so the points that follow will be erroneous in my opinion.

a: So not only is it rhetorically time for the stick, but repeating kindness to people set on revenge only emboldens the kind of behavior seen in this election.

M: Where did you see such kindness? What I see is a bitter lamentation that others aren't as angry as you are and may have less of a thirst for vengeance. This is typical of people who hate themselves. The greater the self hate the greater the desire for pay back. Naturally, a mind exposed to some sort of civility in as part of ones upbringing and training is going to find reasons, as you do wo well, to rationalize that. The facts are, if I man so imply, is that conservatives were treated with utter contempt by liberals. So what conclusions you draw are not only wrong but completely upside down.

a: The clear solution going forward is allowing republicans to cause ruin in the areas that vote for them, eg withholding development funds much as possible, and teaching a lasting lesson that leaves some scars. It would be better if democrats assisted in this endeavor for their own sake, but watching the progress of the last few days leaves the impression that their mental defects prevents this.

M: Oh ye of little faith. Your clear solution, your plan of action, is an inevitability and needs no help with no requirement that anybody stoop to that level.

a: Therefore I would suggest to folks previously blinded by the idealism of greater good to instead do what's effective, and strategically vote republican until such times call for different. I would for example consider trump looting social security for the current retirees to be a "win" in the scheme of things. Whatever fed tax cuts in the blue locales no doubt be cycled by local democrats to take care of their own. Maybe a few frozen bodies in the streets, particularly in red areas, would do the country some good.

M: How well I understand this feeling and I can tell you it is totally useless. It is a rebound from one extreme to another, a dilemma that is only resolved at a higher level of understanding. You made the mistake of believing that virtue should have a reward when the only reward for virtue is virtue itself. There is no reward for kindness but self respect. But fortunately for those of us who wash ashore striped of all we possess, thankless an unrewarded, a door will open to a light within that can never be extinguished.



If your mind were capable of creating anything worth saying, it would have replaced the words in the quoted post.[/QUOTE]

 

[Kazukian]

Moonbeam is right, with control of the 3 branches of government, there's no wiggle room, Republicans have to own everything. The potential for everything to turn to shit is very real.

The difference will determine a one term versus a 2 term president. I don't think Trump will run for a 2nd term, he's nearing the end of his lifespan, and the job's going to accelerate his aging, he'd be near 80 by the end of a 2nd term, then factor in the added stress. So the Republicans will be looking for another candidate. Pence won't play as well as Trump.

Just reading the tea leaves, and I'm often wrong.

 

[agent00f]

The polls didn't underestimate Trump's numbers, they overestimated Hillary's ability to get the vote out. Everyone assumed that it was the Republicans who would stay home.. oops!

IMO quite revealing observation that they told everyone else both sides are equally bad when clearly they didn't exactly believe it. Yet liberals seem rather ready to reward this sort of behavior again.

agent00f: Practically speaking, the democrats' carrot approach of doing kindness for people has obviously failed.

M: Assuming of course that you have some real notion of what is actually practical and what failure really is. I don't think you do so the points that follow will be erroneous in my opinion.

a: So not only is it rhetorically time for the stick, but repeating kindness to people set on revenge only emboldens the kind of behavior seen in this election.

M: Where did you see such kindness? What I see is a bitter lamentation that others aren't as angry as you are and may have less of a thirst for vengeance. This is typical of people who hate themselves. The greater the self hate the greater the desire for pay back. Naturally, a mind exposed to some sort of civility in as part of ones upbringing and training is going to find reasons, as you do wo well, to rationalize that. The facts are, if I man so imply, is that conservatives were treated with utter contempt by liberals. So what conclusions you draw are not only wrong but completely upside down.

Eg. the auto bailout implemented by democrats at great political expense is the only reason half the good jobs in the rust belt still exist, and this is their payback.

As a practical matter when someone stabs you in the back, turning the other cheek is an astonishing stupid response, especially when the "christians" suggesting this have zero compunction stabbing their lord and savior in the back, too. Game theory is the quantitative study of practice, and informs us of the objective best course of action.

a: The clear solution going forward is allowing republicans to cause ruin in the areas that vote for them, eg withholding development funds much as possible, and teaching a lasting lesson that leaves some scars. It would be better if democrats assisted in this endeavor for their own sake, but watching the progress of the last few days leaves the impression that their mental defects prevents this.

M: Oh ye of little faith. Your clear solution, your plan of action, is an inevitability and needs no help with no requirement that anybody stoop to that level.

a: Therefore I would suggest to folks previously blinded by the idealism of greater good to instead do what's effective, and strategically vote republican until such times call for different. I would for example consider trump looting social security for the current retirees to be a "win" in the scheme of things. Whatever fed tax cuts in the blue locales no doubt be cycled by local democrats to take care of their own. Maybe a few frozen bodies in the streets, particularly in red areas, would do the country some good.

M: How well I understand this feeling and I can tell you it is totally useless. It is a rebound from one extreme to another, a dilemma that is only resolved at a higher level of understanding. You made the mistake of believing that virtue should have a reward when the only reward for virtue is virtue itself. There is no reward for kindness but self respect. But fortunately for those of us who wash ashore striped of all we possess, thankless an unrewarded, a door will open to a light within that can never be extinguished.

I've mentioned to you before that I was born with the kind of defect you sometimes speak of, and this naivety has led me to quite some disadvantage in the past. While I've rectified this in consequential personal life, and if anything only learned greater self-respect in the process, it's plain to see that it still persists in back of the mind.

So I think it's interesting that you claim to be without these defects, yet subscribe to the popular liberal narrative as of late that these are good people who are only another bailout away from loving their fellow americans, instead of fucking them over just to hate on mexicans a thousand miles away, or muslims halfway around the world.

 

[sxr7171]

Moonbeam is right, with control of the 3 branches of government, there's no wiggle room, Republicans have to own everything. The potential for everything to turn to shit is very real.

The difference will determine a one term versus a 2 term president. I don't think Trump will run for a 2nd term, he's nearing the end of his lifespan, and the job's going to accelerate his aging, he'd be near 80 by the end of a 2nd term, then factor in the added stress. So the Republicans will be looking for another candidate. Pence won't play as well as Trump.

Just reading the tea leaves, and I'm often wrong.

So many parallels to Reagan imho.

 

[dank69]

Moonbeam is right, with control of the 3 branches of government, there's no wiggle room, Republicans have to own everything. The potential for everything to turn to shit is very real.

The difference will determine a one term versus a 2 term president. I don't think Trump will run for a 2nd term, he's nearing the end of his lifespan, and the job's going to accelerate his aging, he'd be near 80 by the end of a 2nd term, then factor in the added stress. So the Republicans will be looking for another candidate. Pence won't play as well as Trump.

Just reading the tea leaves, and I'm often wrong.

Bullshit. It's already Democrats' fault that Trump was elected, so everything bad that happens is Democrats' fault.

America clearly didn't learn a thing from the Bush/Cheney era. It's only been 8 years. I say Democrats get the fuck out of the way and let the GOP do anything and everything they want. Then, in 4 or 8 or 16 years when it all comes crashing down and people are begging for Democrats to take control, the Democrats should all withdraw from their races on election day and let the country stew in GOP shit for another decade.

 

[Kazukian]

Bullshit. It's already Democrats' fault that Trump was elected, so everything bad that happens is Democrats' fault.

America clearly didn't learn a thing from the Bush/Cheney era. It's only been 8 years. I say Democrats get the fuck out of the way and let the GOP do anything and everything they want. Then, in 4 or 8 or 16 years when it all comes crashing down and people are begging for Democrats to take control, the Democrats should all withdraw from their races on election day and let the country stew in GOP shit for another decade.

That's actually what I said, except for the withdraw part.

 

[Moonbeam]

agent00f: Eg. the auto bailout implemented by democrats at great political expense is the only reason half the good jobs in the rust belt still exist, and this is their payback.

M: That's not payback. That's people thrashing in their sleep, unaware they are motivated by a need not to feel their self hate by blaming others for it. How does it make any sense to punish people who are punishing themselves. Think.

a: As a practical matter when someone stabs you in the back, turning the other cheek is an astonishing stupid response, especially when the "christians" suggesting this have zero compunction stabbing their lord and savior in the back, too. Game theory is the quantitative study of practice, and informs us of the objective best course of action.

M: Now now, don't tell me you think Jesus didn't know they would do that? That was his mission. Your job is to be better than Christians, but if you don't have the stomach for it become a Muslim. They strike back and only relent when evil surrenders. After that evil dies if it breaks the peace pact. Just be sure you know what evil is or you could sin.

a: I've mentioned to you before that I was born with the kind of defect you sometimes speak of, and this naivety has led me to quite some disadvantage in the past. While I've rectified this in consequential personal life, and if anything only learned greater self-respect in the process, it's plain to see that it still persists in back of the mind.

M: We were born to trust and to bond with love but self hate destroys all that in our children. But if you think that innocence is a disadvantage, then you don't know the price paid by those who violate it. What was for you seems a disadvantage for them was a disaster, People who harm do so because they can never know the price they pay for it.

a: So I think it's interesting that you claim to be without these defects, yet subscribe to the popular liberal narrative as of late that these are good people who are only another bailout away from loving their fellow americans, instead of fucking them over just to hate on mexicans a thousand miles away, or muslims halfway around the world.

M: No, I know what they are and how they got that way. I suffer that awareness because they cannot. All my rage is completely useless. It is there to keep me from feeling pain and it failed to work. There is nothing to do but let go and fall into darkness. The nothing took all of my dreams but could not take what can never be taken. Find out what that is.

 

[sxr7171]

For someone who is so educated and "smart", you sure are overly clueless.

"Educated" is code for indoctrinated.

 

[Moonbeam]

Bullshit. It's already Democrats' fault that Trump was elected, so everything bad that happens is Democrats' fault.

America clearly didn't learn a thing from the Bush/Cheney era. It's only been 8 years. I say Democrats get the fuck out of the way and let the GOP do anything and everything they want. Then, in 4 or 8 or 16 years when it all comes crashing down and people are begging for Democrats to take control, the Democrats should all withdraw from their races on election day and let the country stew in GOP shit for another decade.

Geez, dank, you can't blame people who are asleep. The kingdom of heaven is all around us and worth waking up tp. Only you can prevent forest fires.

 

[dank69]

Geez, dank, you can't blame people who are asleep. The kingdom of heaven is all around us and worth waking up tp. Only you can prevent forest fires.

Not blaming them at all. Clearly 2008 wasn't enough to wake them up. Guess we need bread lines this time.

 

[agent00f]

agent00f: Eg. the auto bailout implemented by democrats at great political expense is the only reason half the good jobs in the rust belt still exist, and this is their payback.

M: That's not payback. That's people thrashing in their sleep, unaware they are motivated by a need not to feel their self hate by blaming others for it. How does it make any sense to punish people who are punishing themselves. Think.

They do as they like because they can get away it, like spoiled children. Assuming my plan works, they're going to need to grow up to survive. If they don't, what's it to someone without brain defects?

a: As a practical matter when someone stabs you in the back, turning the other cheek is an astonishing stupid response, especially when the "christians" suggesting this have zero compunction stabbing their lord and savior in the back, too. Game theory is the quantitative study of practice, and informs us of the objective best course of action.

M: Now now, don't tell me you think Jesus didn't know they would do that? That was his mission. Your job is to be better than Christians, but if you don't have the stomach for it become a Muslim. They strike back and only relent when evil surrenders. After that evil dies if it breaks the peace pact. Just be sure you know what evil is or you could sin.

I'm a practical person and not really religious. If I suffer injury from another and acquiescing offering only emboldens them, staying the course doesn't seem the right choice.

a: I've mentioned to you before that I was born with the kind of defect you sometimes speak of, and this naivety has led me to quite some disadvantage in the past. While I've rectified this in consequential personal life, and if anything only learned greater self-respect in the process, it's plain to see that it still persists in back of the mind.

M: We were born to trust and to bond with love but self hate destroys all that in our children. But if you think that innocence is a disadvantage, then you don't know the price paid by those who violate it. What was for you seems a disadvantage for them was a disaster, People who harm do so because they can never know the price they pay for it.

In practice people who take advantage of innocence only seem to collect the benefits. I'm often told there's some karmic justice waiting for them, and reward for virtue, but appears to me that's just what people who get taken advantage of tell themselves for emotional relief.

a: So I think it's interesting that you claim to be without these defects, yet subscribe to the popular liberal narrative as of late that these are good people who are only another bailout away from loving their fellow americans, instead of fucking them over just to hate on mexicans a thousand miles away, or muslims halfway around the world.

M: No, I know what they are and how they got that way. I suffer that awareness because they cannot. All my rage is completely useless. It is there to keep me from feeling pain and it failed to work. There is nothing to do but let go and fall into darkness. The nothing took all of my dreams but could not take what can never be taken. Find out what that is.

If you haven't read Nietzsche's take on this (Beyond Good and Evil, Genealogy of Morals, et al) I can only recommend it, but be warned he is a destroyer of all that we thought we knew.

 

[Moonbeam]

agent00f: They do as they like because they can get away it, like spoiled children. Assuming my plan works, they're going to need to grow up to survive. If they don't, what's it to someone without brain defects?

M: I defeated the Nothing. Nothing is anything to me. I got mine. I don't have a plan or assumptions. The situation is hopeless but not serious. There is only love.

a: I'm a practical person and not really religious. If I suffer injury from another and acquiescing offering only emboldens them, staying the course doesn't seem the right choice.

M: I have no problem with this truth. My problem is with the assumptions you make as to a logical alternative. You go to the opposite extreme instead of dissolving the duality dilemma at a higher level of understanding.

a: In practice people who take advantage of innocence only seem to collect the benefits. I'm often told there's some karmic justice waiting for them, and reward for virtue, but appears to me that's just what people who get taken advantage of tell themselves for emotional relief.

M: What does the fact that people tell themselves for relief have to do with whether something that people experience as true is true? You have not experienced the truth of what I tell you so how could you possibly say whether it is a true state of awareness or not? You want to turn everything into an intellectual debate. I want to inform you of a treasure that is hidden behind a door you don't see.

a: If you haven't read Nietzsche's take on this (Beyond Good and Evil, Genealogy of Morals, et al) I can only recommend it, but be warned he is a destroyer of all that we thought we knew.

M: Been there and done that long long ago. All that I remember is feeling of comradery of a similarly tormented soul. I had already personally destroyed everything that I assumed was of value for a meaningful live, back when the Nothing was wining. What you warn about I would recommend. To defeat the Nothing, you have to surrender to it, to give up and die, to collapse in defeat.

That's where I experienced a completely different conscious state. And it would be pointless to try to convince a person who just surrendered to death that he or she was seeking emotional relief. Really, it's just too funny to contemplate.

There is a form of knowing about which there is no doubt and it can be had only by not knowing anything.

 

[First]

*Ahem

Your lashing out fits to a T.

It always amazes me that people like this are essentially saying that a large swath of people voted for their candidate based not on issues or economics, but on spite? Spite? That feeling a 5 year old boy has when his toy is taken by another boy so he trips him next time around? The emotion Jerry Seinfeld had when returning his jacket? That's the emotion that drives you?

The unintentional revelation of the emotional state of these voters is pretty amazing. You're not automatically racist, bigoted, misogynistic if you voted Trump; of course, you're a lot more fucking likely to be if you did. Just fact.

 

[flexy]

Not blaming them at all. Clearly 2008 wasn't enough to wake them up. Guess we need bread lines this time.

I am afraid that we reached a level of ignorance (or whatever it is) that there is a possibility these people would NEVER wake up. They had chance to do so, plenty.

Let it all come crashing down. Bread lines, whatever. "Analyzing" the past and these elections, they will blame Pedro and Jose for the breadlines. Or whoever is featured in the latest nutter stories they find on IW or Breitbart.

You STILL having faith that people are rational? How so? There is no indication whatsoever they will come to their senses.
Let them work for $2/hr. Let them lose their health insurance. Let the CEOs have even more free reign and give them more tax breaks. Let their homes be foreclosed. Let them eat garbage that they are scraping off the street while the elites fly above their heads in gold plated 757. This is what they want, this is what they voted for.

Also..while I don't even see an indication that those people would ever "wake up", the pros at BB/IW etc. will do their best they WON'T.EVER. wake up. There is a strategy behind all this, it's all being put in place right now.

 

[Kazukian]

I am afraid that we reached a level of ignorance (or whatever it is) that there is a possibility these people would NEVER wake up. They had chance to do so, plenty.

Let it all come crashing down. Bread lines, whatever. "Analyzing" the past and these elections, they will blame Pedro and Jose for the breadlines. Or whoever is featured in the latest nutter stories they find on IW or Breitbart.

You STILL having faith that people are rational? How so? There is no indication whatsoever they will come to their senses.
Let them work for $2/hr. Let them lose their health insurance. Let the CEOs have even more free reign and give them more tax breaks. Let their homes be foreclosed. Let them eat garbage that they are scraping off the street while the elites fly above their heads in gold plated 757. This is what they want, this is what they voted for.

Also..while I don't even see an indication that those people would ever "wake up", the pros at BB/IW etc. will do their best they WON'T.EVER. wake up. There is a strategy behind all this, it's all being put in place right now.

On my commute to work in LA, I saw about 1,000 homeless people every day under a heavily liberal state and federal administration. But yeah, bread lines.....

 

[zinfamous]

On my commute to work in LA, I saw about 1,000 homeless people every day under a heavily liberal state and federal administration. But yeah, bread lines.....

The reality is that the concentration of homeless people living in X state or X region has little to do with the politics. It has to do with the fact that it's LA: It's warm all year round and rarely rains. This is true in most areas like this. Chronically homeless people will naturally congregate where conditions are simply more amenable to living on the street. Obviously, having more services for them does attract them, but programs like this are also more of a response to deal with an issue that will never go away, unless a city manages to physically move itself several latitude degrees north.

 

[Kazukian]

The reality is that the concentration of homeless people living in X state or X region has little to do with the politics. It has to do with the fact that it's LA: It's warm all year round and rarely rains. This is true in most areas like this. Chronically homeless people will naturally congregate where conditions are simply more amenable to living on the street. Obviously, having more services for them does attract them, but programs like this are also more of a response to deal with an issue that will never go away, unless a city manages to physically move itself several latitude degrees north.

Were I homeless, I'd move there as many of them did and are. I understand Hawaii has a significant problem with homeless relocating there.

Many are even provided transportation to warmer places, it's called Greyhound therapy.

 

[Moonbeam]

I am afraid that we reached a level of ignorance (or whatever it is) that there is a possibility these people would NEVER wake up. They had chance to do so, plenty.

Let it all come crashing down. Bread lines, whatever. "Analyzing" the past and these elections, they will blame Pedro and Jose for the breadlines. Or whoever is featured in the latest nutter stories they find on IW or Breitbart.

You STILL having faith that people are rational? How so? There is no indication whatsoever they will come to their senses.
Let them work for $2/hr. Let them lose their health insurance. Let the CEOs have even more free reign and give them more tax breaks. Let their homes be foreclosed. Let them eat garbage that they are scraping off the street while the elites fly above their heads in gold plated 757. This is what they want, this is what they voted for.

Also..while I don't even see an indication that those people would ever "wake up", the pros at BB/IW etc. will do their best they WON'T.EVER. wake up. There is a strategy behind all this, it's all being put in place right now.

You are talking to very smart people here, present company excepted, and I doubt they will see it either. But in my opinion there is no plan to any of it. Humanity is asleep and what they call awake is a dream. It's all a machine.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I understand Hawaii has a significant problem with homeless relocating there.

Well it is a path to Hollywood stardom.

http://www.ew.com/article/2014/08/17/chris-pratt-van-photo

 

[agent00f]

agent00f: They do as they like because they can get away it, like spoiled children. Assuming my plan works, they're going to need to grow up to survive. If they don't, what's it to someone without brain defects?

M: I defeated the Nothing. Nothing is anything to me. I got mine. I don't have a plan or assumptions. The situation is hopeless but not serious. There is only love.

The reality out there is the stuff of plans and will. I'm glad you're pleased, but that's a different realm.

a: I'm a practical person and not really religious. If I suffer injury from another and acquiescing offering only emboldens them, staying the course doesn't seem the right choice.

M: I have no problem with this truth. My problem is with the assumptions you make as to a logical alternative. You go to the opposite extreme instead of dissolving the duality dilemma at a higher level of understanding.

The solution to cartesian duality isn't god as he proposed. It's an worthwhile concept to teach due to its importance in western thought but the rest of the work is pretty substandard.

a: In practice people who take advantage of innocence only seem to collect the benefits. I'm often told there's some karmic justice waiting for them, and reward for virtue, but appears to me that's just what people who get taken advantage of tell themselves for emotional relief.

M: What does the fact that people tell themselves for relief have to do with whether something that people experience as true is true? You have not experienced the truth of what I tell you so how could you possibly say whether it is a true state of awareness or not? You want to turn everything into an intellectual debate. I want to inform you of a treasure that is hidden behind a door you don't see.

Aren't you assuming I've not experienced it same as I assumed you haven't read Nietzsche's take?

a: If you haven't read Nietzsche's take on this (Beyond Good and Evil, Genealogy of Morals, et al) I can only recommend it, but be warned he is a destroyer of all that we thought we knew.

M: Been there and done that long long ago. All that I remember is feeling of comradery of a similarly tormented soul. I had already personally destroyed everything that I assumed was of value for a meaningful live, back when the Nothing was wining. What you warn about I would recommend. To defeat the Nothing, you have to surrender to it, to give up and die, to collapse in defeat.

That's where I experienced a completely different conscious state. And it would be pointless to try to convince a person who just surrendered to death that he or she was seeking emotional relief. Really, it's just too funny to contemplate.

There is a form of knowing about which there is no doubt and it can be had only by not knowing anything.

One of his main themes was what comes after nihilism, what is worth living for. If you don't remember that it's very much worth reading again.

 

[Moonbeam]

The reality out there is the stuff of plans and will. I'm glad you're pleased, but that's a different realm.

The solution to cartesian duality isn't god as he proposed. It's an worthwhile concept to teach due to its importance in western thought but the rest of the work is pretty substandard.

Aren't you assuming I've not experienced it same as I assumed you haven't read Nietzsche's take?

One of his main themes was what comes after nihilism, what is worth living for. If you don't remember that it's very much worth reading again.[/QUOT

When I read Nietzsche I was burning alive with a thirst for knowledge. Today my focus is on cleaning my garage. From time to time I read P and N to see if there is anything I can help people with. Know then that I don't care a whit what Nietzsche had to say, only what you think he said to you. I won. I'm not seeking for anything but to share words with you.

For example, I don't know where you got the idea that god is the solution to duality. My point was that the solution to every human conundrum is always some third way, a synthesis of opposites that takes place intuitively causing cascade of new connections that produce a different level of awareness.

I want to hear what you have to say in your own words.