A good big man will always beat an equally good small man

[BlancoNino]

When it comes to fighting. Is this true? I look at some of Bob Sapp's fights (360lb all muscle man with no real martial arts training) and he completely mauls and destroys much of the competition (which includes lots of trained martial artists). I believe this supports the theory. If Sapp was technically an equally good fighter as the smaller guys, he would win because of his size advantage. He rarely loses as it is now...

Saying speed is more advantagious than power is just something smaller guys say to compensate. If you ever watch the fights in high school, the stronger guy almost always wins, despite a smaller guy being a little faster and neither having any formal training.

 

[mryellow2]

Yeah, pretty much true.

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
When it comes to fighting. Is this true? I look at some of Bob Sapp's fights (360lb all muscle man with no real martial arts training) and he completely mauls and destroys much of the competition (which includes lots of trained martial artists). I believe this supports the theory. If Sapp was technically an equally good fighter as the smaller guys, he would win because of his size advantage. He rarely loses as it is now...

Of course. If they have identical skills than the big man should win almost all the time.

 

[habib89]

well if they're equal except for size, of course the big guy is going to beat the little guy.. unless you're andre the giant, and you're fighting the dread pirate roberts

 

[BudAshes2]

Not if the little guy kicks the big guy in the junk first.

 

[mk52]

how much bigger are we talking about?

 

[LordMorpheus]

Originally posted by: habib89
well if they're equal except for size, of course the big guy is going to beat the little guy.. unless you're andre the giant, and you're fighting the dread pirate roberts

This was clearly a case of unequal skill levels. Besides, Andre the Giant never fought the real dread pirate Roberts.

And the reason the fake dread pirate roberts gave him so much trouble is that he hadn't fought just one person in so long. He'd been battling gangs for charities, that sort of thing, and it makes a difference because you use different moves when you're fighting half a dozen men than when you only have to be worried about one.


The scary thing? I didn't look the movie up and I haven't seen it in a couple years, now.

 

[junkerman123]

Originally posted by: LordMorpheus

Originally posted by: habib89
well if they're equal except for size, of course the big guy is going to beat the little guy.. unless you're andre the giant, and you're fighting the dread pirate roberts

This was clearly a case of unequal skill levels. Besides, Andre the Giant never fought the real dread pirate Roberts.

And the reason the fake dread pirate roberts gave him so much trouble is that he hadn't fought just one person in so long. He'd been battling gangs for charities, that sort of thing, and it makes a difference because you use different moves when you're fighting half a dozen men than when you only have to be worried about one.

The scary thing? I didn't look the movie up and I haven't seen it in a couple years, now.

I think that it is fairly reasonable to assume that the real dread pirate Roberts was more skilled than the fake one, as he taught him everything. Thus, Andre the Giant would most certainly be even more overmatched if facing the real dread pirate Roberts.

 

[z0mb13]

unless its bruce lee or jet li or chuck norris

 

[SophalotJack]

This fact that the OP pointed out is the sole reason why anime does so well...

small dude against giant odds... makes them small japs hard thinking that skill will win in fights.

I still love anime though.

 

[Kelvrick]

Originally posted by: SophalotJack
This fact that the OP pointed out is the sole reason why anime does so well...

small dude against giant odds... makes them small japs hard thinking that skill will win in fights.

I still love anime though.

Erm, he's saying equally skilled. He didn't say more skill less size = lose.

 

[Alienwho]

Two guys. Both same body type, same training, same muscle build, etc. One is 5'5" the other is 6'5". The big guy will always win. Not only will he be stronger, but he is probably fasters as well.

 

[kage69]

In my experience you can't make that call over simple body types. What it comes down to is will, be it to win or simply to survive.

A good illustration of what I'm talking about is the duel in the end of the movie Rob Roy.

Keep in mind as well that the UFC and the like attract the best fighters willing to perform for money. This group in no way constitutes or represents the entire community of practicing martial artists, so draw your conclusions carefully.

 

[tfinch2]

Originally posted by: Alienwho
Two guys. Both same body type, same training, same muscle build, etc. One is 5'5" the other is 6'5". The big guy will always win. Not only will he be stronger, but he is probably fasters as well.

HTF do you conclude that he will be faster?

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: z0mb13
unless its bruce lee or jet li or chuck norris

Vs an equally skilled version of themselves at a higher level? They were middle-weight karate blackbelts. I'm sure heavy-weight karate blackbelts will generally beat middle-weights.

 

[DingDingDao]

Originally posted by: junkerman123

Originally posted by: LordMorpheus

Originally posted by: habib89
well if they're equal except for size, of course the big guy is going to beat the little guy.. unless you're andre the giant, and you're fighting the dread pirate roberts

This was clearly a case of unequal skill levels. Besides, Andre the Giant never fought the real dread pirate Roberts.

And the reason the fake dread pirate roberts gave him so much trouble is that he hadn't fought just one person in so long. He'd been battling gangs for charities, that sort of thing, and it makes a difference because you use different moves when you're fighting half a dozen men than when you only have to be worried about one.

The scary thing? I didn't look the movie up and I haven't seen it in a couple years, now.

I think that it is fairly reasonable to assume that the real dread pirate Roberts was more skilled than the fake one, as he taught him everything. Thus, Andre the Giant would most certainly be even more overmatched if facing the real dread pirate Roberts.

I have no idea WTF you two are talking about, but I am interested and would like to subscribe to your newsletter

What movie is this?

 

[PrinceofWands]

The issue is 'equal'. If both men truly have equal skill, and equal desire, then obviously any advantage one has over the other will give him the win. It's the same as saying 'if two men have the same skill and size and strength, the faster man will win.' Well, duh.

I see combat as a three part equation:

Spirit -51%
Mind -34%
Body - 15%

The most important element is who wants it more, who's willing to do more. If one man is fighting for the life of his family and is willing to kill, he has the advantage over someone who doesn't really want to fight or won't strike to cripple/kill. This also grants actual physiological advantage as adrenaline is released and so on.

Next most important is who has the training, and who is in control of the moment. Experience, training, out-thinking your opponent, etc. Mental preparedness and so on.

Finally is the body. Size, strength, speed. While these things are very very useful, they just don't make up for the others.



I've had to face all types of people. While I never look forward to facing people a foot taller, a hundred pounds heavier, or vastly stronger, they've never managed to take me with these advantages. I attribute this to my dedication, experience, and training. A little luck probably has helped as well.

 

[Eeezee]

Isn't this why they have weight divisions in all fighting sports? You don't want a 300lb guy going up against a 200lb guy, unless the 200lb guy has considerably more skill than the 300lb guy.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

I've had to face all types of people. While I never look forward to facing people a foot taller, a hundred pounds heavier, or vastly stronger, they've never managed to take me with these advantages. I attribute this to my dedication, experience, and training. A little luck probably has helped as well.

If somebody a hundred pounds heavier had the dedication, experience, and training that you had, as well as equal luck, he would have an advantage.

 

[Alienwho]

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: Alienwho
Two guys. Both same body type, same training, same muscle build, etc. One is 5'5" the other is 6'5". The big guy will always win. Not only will he be stronger, but he is probably fasters as well.

HTF do you conclude that he will be faster?

I did say "probably." And besides, why wouldn't he be? He isn't freakishly large, and has the exact same body type as the shorter guy, he's just 1 foot taller.

It doesn't matter anyway, he'll cream the 5'5" shrimp.

 

[MrPickins]

I suppose It would depend on the martial arts dicipline being practiced. I can see size as being less of a factor in judo or even sumo, because there balance would be king.

Of course, too much of a weight difference, and it does become a factor.

 

[Mrvile]

Ok let's assume that each person is VERY skilled. The bigger guy is like 350lbs, the smaller guy is 180lbs. If the smaller guy knew what he was doing, wouldn't he be just fast enough to get around the bigger guy to get in a good hit?

 

[letdown427]

So you're saying that if two guys were to fight, man a and man b, both were identical in every way, except man a had a slight advantage, man a would win? Well yes, yes he would, I agree with you.

 

[kage69]

Two guys. Both same body type, same training, same muscle build, etc. One is 5'5" the other is 6'5". The big guy will always win. Not only will he be stronger, but he is probably fasters as well.

When you're talking about such a noteable difference in height the main attribute for the taller fighter is reach. Remember Tyson taking on Lewis? If he's a full foot taller, yet the same muscle build (I assume you're refering to weight here), then that means most likely he will be faster, although not necessarily stronger. We're getting into the makeup of red and white muscle cells here, but as a general rule lean and mean is almost always faster than big and broad. Also, the body conditioning many styles employ (gong fu and traditional karate-do in particular) tend to undermine common perceptions on body type abilities. There are more than a few old school Okinawan karatekas out there with absolutely unreal body-strength and speed comparitive to their sizes and ages. "Steel wrapped in cotton" is an analogy I've heard more than once.


Also remember that "training" does not automatically correlate to "experience." A black belt in shotokan who got there by doing lots of kata and attending these now popular 'showmanship' oriented meets, but has never been in a real fight, is probably not much better off in a dark alley than someone who has never trained and never been in a fight.

Not if the little guy kicks the big guy in the junk first.

Heh, quite so. In real fights it's less a question of how hard you hit, and more a question of where you hit. I'm a fan of facial nerves and the ears myself.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: Mrvile
Ok let's assume that each person is VERY skilled. The bigger guy is like 350lbs, the smaller guy is 180lbs. If the smaller guy knew what he was doing, wouldn't he be just fast enough to get around the bigger guy to get in a good hit?

Possibly, but he has a long distance to travel to "get around"

Also, a bigger guy is generally going to be to sustain a lot more hits. These "bone breaking" special moves that are taught to little martial artist guys don't really work on big guys...