A good big man will always beat an equally good small man

[waggy]

while usually a bigger guy has a advantage its not always true. I have seen some of the old UFC and pride fights where the bigger guy did not always win. sap was taken down by a smaller guy. he kept out of range and kept kicking sap in the legs.

but sap is scarry. i wouldnt want to fight him heh

 

[Poulsonator]

Originally posted by: DingDingDao

Originally posted by: junkerman123

Originally posted by: LordMorpheus

Originally posted by: habib89
well if they're equal except for size, of course the big guy is going to beat the little guy.. unless you're andre the giant, and you're fighting the dread pirate roberts

This was clearly a case of unequal skill levels. Besides, Andre the Giant never fought the real dread pirate Roberts.

And the reason the fake dread pirate roberts gave him so much trouble is that he hadn't fought just one person in so long. He'd been battling gangs for charities, that sort of thing, and it makes a difference because you use different moves when you're fighting half a dozen men than when you only have to be worried about one.

The scary thing? I didn't look the movie up and I haven't seen it in a couple years, now.

I think that it is fairly reasonable to assume that the real dread pirate Roberts was more skilled than the fake one, as he taught him everything. Thus, Andre the Giant would most certainly be even more overmatched if facing the real dread pirate Roberts.

I have no idea WTF you two are talking about, but I am interested and would like to subscribe to your newsletter

What movie is this?

The Princess Bride.

Watch it NOW.

 

[ubercaffeinated]

There is a reason why they have weight classes implemented in martial arts/fights.

 

[DingDingDao]

Originally posted by: Poulsonator

Originally posted by: DingDingDao

Originally posted by: junkerman123

Originally posted by: LordMorpheus

Originally posted by: habib89
well if they're equal except for size, of course the big guy is going to beat the little guy.. unless you're andre the giant, and you're fighting the dread pirate roberts

This was clearly a case of unequal skill levels. Besides, Andre the Giant never fought the real dread pirate Roberts.

And the reason the fake dread pirate roberts gave him so much trouble is that he hadn't fought just one person in so long. He'd been battling gangs for charities, that sort of thing, and it makes a difference because you use different moves when you're fighting half a dozen men than when you only have to be worried about one.

The scary thing? I didn't look the movie up and I haven't seen it in a couple years, now.

I think that it is fairly reasonable to assume that the real dread pirate Roberts was more skilled than the fake one, as he taught him everything. Thus, Andre the Giant would most certainly be even more overmatched if facing the real dread pirate Roberts.

I have no idea WTF you two are talking about, but I am interested and would like to subscribe to your newsletter

What movie is this?

The Princess Bride.

Watch it NOW.

I saw the movie years ago (must've been at least a decade) and only after you mentioned the name of the movie did I realize what they're on about. *slaps forehead*

 

[ArchCenturion]

there is no way, that I would want to go up against someone, that was my same exact build and skill, but 6" taller than me, and 50lbs heavier than me. I would get pwnd

 

[archiloco]

i have been sparing with a very experienced martial arts dude, and because i was 6" taller and 100lbs. heavier he had a hard time, but the match ended when he got some weird submission move with my wrist/elbow it felt like if he would add just a tad more pressure and my wrist would of snapped off.

 

[Mrvile]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: Mrvile
Ok let's assume that each person is VERY skilled. The bigger guy is like 350lbs, the smaller guy is 180lbs. If the smaller guy knew what he was doing, wouldn't he be just fast enough to get around the bigger guy to get in a good hit?

Possibly, but he has a long distance to travel to "get around"

Also, a bigger guy is generally going to be to sustain a lot more hits. These "bone breaking" special moves that are taught to little martial artist guys don't really work on big guys...

What about pressure points? I'm pretty sure a well-placed pressure point attack would work on almost anyone.

 

[kage69]

Also, a bigger guy is generally going to be to sustain a lot more hits. These "bone breaking" special moves that are taught to little martial artist guys don't really work on big guys...

Ok, please stop. You don't know what you're talking about. Your desire to speak in absolutes doesn't mesh well with the topic. Koppo techniques are not taught by all martial systems, and they certainly don't use body size as a requirement for who gets it. I hate to break it to you, but large people still have sensitive areas like the rest of the populace. A serious strike to the windpipe is going produce the same result if the recipeint is 150lbs or 350 lbs. If you want to speak in terms of boxers standing in front of eachother trading blows with gloves on, fine, but don't apply that to the stuff out there that was developed on a medievel battlefield where the losers were beheaded.

There is a reason why they have weight classes implemented in martial arts/fights

And it has to do with giving the crowd watching a sense of fair competition. But not all venues do this I might add, go watch some sumo and marvel at the 250lb guy squaring off against a 450lb behemoth (and winning sometimes!)

I know I'm waxing obvious here, but there aren't any weight restrictions in mall parking lots or back alleys.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: kage69

Also, a bigger guy is generally going to be to sustain a lot more hits. These "bone breaking" special moves that are taught to little martial artist guys don't really work on big guys...

Ok, please stop. You don't know what you're talking about. Your desire to speak in absolutes doesn't mesh well with the topic. Koppo techniques are not taught by all martial systems, and they certainly don't use body size as a requirement for who gets it. I hate to break it to you, but large people still have sensitive areas like the rest of the populace. A serious strike to the windpipe is going produce the same result if the recipeint is 150lbs or 350 lbs. If you want to speak in terms of boxers standing in front of eachother trading blows with gloves on, fine, but don't apply that to the stuff out there that was developed on a medievel battlefield where the losers were beheaded.

There is a reason why they have weight classes implemented in martial arts/fights

And it has to do with giving the crowd watching a sense of fair competition. But not all venues do this I might add, go watch some sumo and marvel at the 250lb guy squaring off against a 450lb behemoth (and winning sometimes!)

I know I'm waxing obvious here, but there aren't any weight restrictions in mall parking lots or back alleys.

I don't need you to tell me what I'm "talking" about. I've seen it in real life. LIke i mentioned in the OP (and this is just one small example), watch the Bob Sapp videos of him fighting heavily trained martial artists that weigh 140 pounds less than him. Sapp overpowers them by just rushing them and pounding them to the canvas. Does he lose sometimes? yes, but not usually...and this is because the other fighter used better techniques. NOW, imagine Sapp having the same training...

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: SophalotJack
This fact that the OP pointed out is the sole reason why anime does so well...

small dude against giant odds... makes them small japs hard thinking that skill will win in fights.

I still love anime though.

eh well the smarts wins anyways. the brits and stuff in the past didn't work out becoming karate masters or built like arnold. they handed out rifles and punked peoples who used spears and arrows like the africans.

 

[kage69]

I don't need you to tell me what I'm "talking" about. I've seen it in real life. LIke i mentioned in the OP (and this is just one small example), watch the Bob Sapp videos of him fighting heavily trained martial artists that weigh 140 pounds less than him. Sapp overpowers them by just rushing them and pounding them to the canvas. Does he lose sometimes? yes, but not usually...and this is because the other fighter used better techniques. NOW, imagine Sapp having the same training...

Yeah I read your OP, would you like to try addressing what I was talking about instead?
I'm not telling you what you're talking about, I'm telling you that you don't what you're talking about in regards to the quote I provided. Your comments on big guys sustaining more hits and special bone breakings being taught to little guys is almost comical. You're using a specific fighter and specific incidents to form a hypothesis of sorts, then go right on to make incredibly uninformed generalizations.

But yes, I think Sapp would likely improve greatly were he even to learn just the basics of a solid combat system. Again though, "heavily trained" does not equal heavily experienced. I've seen 5th degree taekwondo black belts who talked all kinds of sh!t get thrown around like dolls by aikijujutsu beginners. I guess it's less amazing the more of it you've seen, and with the 'marketing first, effectiveness later' attitude many American dojos have fallen prey to, well I've seen a fair amount of it.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
When it comes to fighting. Is this true? I look at some of Bob Sapp's fights (360lb all muscle man with no real martial arts training) and he completely mauls and destroys much of the competition (which includes lots of trained martial artists). I believe this supports the theory. If Sapp was technically an equally good fighter as the smaller guys, he would win because of his size advantage. He rarely loses as it is now...

Saying speed is more advantagious than power is just something smaller guys say to compensate. If you ever watch the fights in high school, the stronger guy almost always wins, despite a smaller guy being a little faster and neither having any formal training.

In most fights I see Bob Sapp gets his @ss kicked by the little guy. He's too slow and uncoordinated.

Once I saw a small guy just hang back & kick Sapp in the knee until he gave up. I've seen others knock him out cuz they were much quicker.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
When it comes to fighting. Is this true? I look at some of Bob Sapp's fights (360lb all muscle man with no real martial arts training) and he completely mauls and destroys much of the competition (which includes lots of trained martial artists). I believe this supports the theory. If Sapp was technically an equally good fighter as the smaller guys, he would win because of his size advantage. He rarely loses as it is now...

Saying speed is more advantagious than power is just something smaller guys say to compensate. If you ever watch the fights in high school, the stronger guy almost always wins, despite a smaller guy being a little faster and neither having any formal training.

In most fights I see Bob Sapp gets his @ss kicked by the little guy. He's too slow and uncoordinated.

Once I saw a small guy just hang back & kick Sapp in the knee until he gave up. I've seen others knock him out cuz they were much quicker.

He broke Sapp's bone after several well-landed kicks. He has leg problems though.

And no, Sapp has won most of his fights against the little technical speed martial artists...but they like to post the ones where Sapp loses, because the like to see a guy that big go down.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Isn't this why they have weight divisions in all fighting sports? You don't want a 300lb guy going up against a 200lb guy, unless the 200lb guy has considerably more skill than the 300lb guy.

There were NO weight classes in the original Ultimate Fighting Championships.

The 179 lb "weakling" won every year. As soon as you got him down and got on top of you, you lost. If you tried to stay away and punch or kick him, he'd latch on and take you down.

Once down, he choked everyone into unconciousness. Royce Gracie is his name.

Fern

 

[fitzov]

your refusal to admit the element of chance makes your analysis garbage.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

I've had to face all types of people. While I never look forward to facing people a foot taller, a hundred pounds heavier, or vastly stronger, they've never managed to take me with these advantages. I attribute this to my dedication, experience, and training. A little luck probably has helped as well.

If somebody a hundred pounds heavier had the dedication, experience, and training that you had, as well as equal luck, he would have an advantage.

Exactly my point. When everything else is equal, any one thing that gives an advantage matters. In reality though, two people are very seldom of equal skill, experience, dedication, etc and so their physical advantages often don't matter.

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Isn't this why they have weight divisions in all fighting sports? You don't want a 300lb guy going up against a 200lb guy, unless the 200lb guy has considerably more skill than the 300lb guy.

There were NO weight classes in the original Ultimate Fighting Championships.

The 179 lb "weakling" won every year. As soon as you got him down and got on top of you, you lost. If you tried to stay away and punch or kick him, he'd latch on and take you down.

Once down, he choked everyone into unconciousness. Royce Gracie is his name.

Fern

And how many Royce Gracies are there?

 

[kage69]

your refusal to admit the element of chance makes your analysis garbage.

But...but...he's seen so many high school fights...

Once down, he choked everyone into unconciousness. Royce Gracie is his name.

That's not entirely correct, he did that a few times but he also tapped a number of opponents out. I don't recall seeing Dan Severn go unconscious, although being far larger and stronger than Royce (and no slouch speedwise for someone his size) he still lost.

Meh, I'm sure small Royce was just compensating for something.

 

[kage69]

And how many Royce Gracies are there?

What an odd question...

 

[dullard]

You forget luck.

If two men were equally skilled and equally experienced, the bigger man would USUALLY win. Usually, but not always. There is always the factor of luck.

 

[KRandor]

Well - as my friend put it soem time ago - (and he's a professional MARTIAL artist - (teaches instructors at Stirling Lines/Fort Bragg) - at the end of the day, a fight all comes down to 1 thing: SPEED - (both in thought and in action) - if you kill them before they kill you - you win... Training is all about cutting down the amount of time needed in both throught and action - (to ensure as much as possible that it's your opponent who dies first).

 

[kage69]

Well the Soke of the Blancojutsu ryu thinks your friend is obviously a small guy just trying to compensate for his lack of power.



/sarcasm



That definetly falls in line with my limited knowledge of current day infantry hand-to-hand instruction. You don't want to get mired in a drawn-out wrestling match when you're packing 80lbs of gear on your person. Hence the adoption of the 'O'Neill Quick Kill,' and LINE fighting before it was replaced by the augmented brand of jujutsu your friend probably teaches.

 

[Marinski]

This is not true. If Sapp was as good as you say he is then he'd fight in Pride which is much better competition than K1. You can name a handful of smaller guys in Pride that would knock sapp out or submit him. Fedor, Nog, Cro Cop, Silva, Barnett. These guys are all about 100 lbs lighter and would probably destroy a guy like Sapp. Thats why he doesnt fight in Pride. Skill is greater than size.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Marinski
This is not true. If Sapp was as good as you say he is then he'd fight in Pride which is much better competition than K1. You can name a handful of smaller guys in Pride that would knock sapp out or submit him. Fedor, Nog, Cro Cop, Silva, Barnett. These guys are all about 100 lbs lighter and would probably destroy a guy like Sapp. Thats why he doesnt fight in Pride. Skill is greater than size.

http://www.mmaringreport.com/index.php?...com_content&task=view&id=857&Itemid=53


read it, it's long but interesting.

Sapp did start in pride and now is currently getting screwed by K1.

edit

also, cro cop did beat sapp early on.

 

[PlatinumGold]

In what marked the beginning of his K-1 decline, Sapp was knocked out by Croatian Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic in 86 seconds at the March 30, 2003, Saitama event. After Filipovic landed several solid kicks to his sides and legs, an overhand left broke Sapp's orbital bone. In June 2004 he tapped out while on the ground due to kicks and strikes from Kazuyuki Fujita.

In June 2005, Sapp won the K-1 Japan Grand Prix in Hiroshima to become one of 16 fighters qualified for the 2005 K-1 World GP. In the Japan GP, Sapp showcased greatly improved stamina, as well as better technique, than in his previous fights after intensive training under Sam Greco. In the K-1 2005 World GP Eliminations he lost by decision to "The Techno Goliath" Choi Hong-man.

interestingly enough, he fought cro cop in K1 and not pride.

this Techno giant, 7'2" korean is interesting and also goes along with the hypothesis of the OP that the bigger man will win, altho the korean guy does have training in Korean Wrestling (Sshilum)