A flip-flop example of Rick Perry's lack of principles

Craig234

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May 1, 2006
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Here's an idea what to expect of Rick Perry's principles as a politician - when it comes to saving innocent lives versus his political interests. What will he do for just money issues?

There's an issue of vaccinating girls in the sixth grade against the HPV virus - which protects against the most common STD later causing cervical cancer.

Rick Perry showed himself in 2007 to be a more thoughtful, principled politician. He endorsed a policy of mandatory vaccination, with an 'opt-out' option for parents.

He felt it was important to handle the issue way to get as many girls vaccinated as possible, with protection for the rights of parents - however irrational - not to do it.

Sounds like a position a conservative politician should not have a problem with, nor a liberal. But this is Texas, and the legislature's radical anti-government ideology screamed.

They said that was big government, and it should be 'opt-in'. Perry said his policy would save thousands of these girls' lives and he stood by it as the right thing to do.

Hell, this guy isn't sounding too bad at this point in the story. The legislature voted his policy down; he didn't have the votes to prevent them from overriding a veto, so he let it become law without his signature, and issued a statement attacking the legislature on the issue. Here's what he said at the time:

In the next year, more than a thousand women will likely be diagnosed with this insidious yet mostly preventable disease," Perry said at a May 9, 2007, news conference, surrounded by women who had been affected by HPV, including one who he said had been infected by a rapist. "I challenge legislators to look these women in the eyes and tell them, 'We could have prevented this disease for your daughters and granddaughters, but we just didn't have the gumption to address all the misguided and misleading political rhetoric.'

Over years since, he's been attacked repeatedly by the far right - and by his 2010 opponent for governor disgracefully trying to use the issue for votes.

He's always responded to the attacks saying he did not make a mistake. Here's his years later response to one attack with the 'took a hit for the right thing to do':

“Let me tell you why it wasn’t a bad idea: Even though that was the result I was looking for, and that becoming the standard procedure for protecting young women against this very heinous deadly dreadful disease, it caused a national debate,” Perry said. “I knew I was going to take a political hit … at the end of the day, I did what was right from my perspective, and I did something that saved people’s lives and, you know, that’s a big deal.”

So, coming to 2012, the guy has this issue showing principles, at least on something so clear an issue of life and death for people. Then he threw it away.

Hours after announcing his presidential candidacy, wanting the 'nutty right' vote, Perry flip flopped four years of his policy and said he made a mistake. Two quotes:

That particular issue is one that I readily stand up and say I made a mistake on. I listened to the legislature, they said that was not going to occur, and I agreed with their decision. I don’t always get it right, but I darn sure listen.

I obviously made an error in not having a conversation with the people of the state of Texas rather than just kind out of the blue an executive order. There was a better way to do that, I realize that now. One of the things I do pride myself on, I listen. When the electorate says hey that’s not what we want to do. We backed up, took a look at what we did. I understand I work for the people, it’s not the other way around.

This shows very bad things about his unwillingness to stand up for principle when it's more than politically inconvenient, but is a presidential election issue.

If he won't stand up for what's right for he lives of 'thousands of daughters and granddaughters', what will he do for corporate corruption?

When he'll take his "challenge to look these women in the eyes and tell them, 'We could have prevented this disease for your daughters and granddaughters, but we just didn't have the gumption to address all the misguided and misleading political rhetoric."

This radical anti-government ideology is stirred up in these voters for the selfish interests of wealthy interests like polluters who don't want public interest rules.

Issues like this are a price they'll pay, and they want servants who will do as they want on pushing it. They have their man in Rick Perry - and he's better than most of the short list for having done the right thing even for a period of time, which I think most would not.

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Craig234

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His original stance was also suspect because of his ties with the company that makes gaurdisil


Perrys ties with Merck run deep
http://www.kbtx.com/home/headlines/5546651.html

You're right, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt, as at least doing the right thing whether for the wrong reason or not.

It reminds me of the other Republican governor who pushed to greatly expand drug testing for all state employees - then found to be suspected of profiting from it.

Since Perry's previous motives are hard to prove between the 'moral issue' he claimed and the 'corruption issue', I'm pointing out the clear corrupt flip flop he made.

Thanks for pointing that out though, which both adds useful info, and reminds us of a larger problem with the corrupt influences so mixed into politics.

When half of former Congressmen move into lobbying, if I heard correctly...

It's not about THAT being the problem, even, the buying of them after they leave office; it's how it corrupts them IN office to build favors for after they leave.
 

Brigandier

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Feb 12, 2008
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If you take pArry seriously, others will too, do everyone a favor and ignore him.
 

the DRIZZLE

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Sep 6, 2007
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I don't think you lefties are following your orders from Commander Obama. You guys are supposed to be bashing Romney, he's gonna be the nominee. Don't worry about the freaks like Perry, Bachman, and Palin.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
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Every single repub pres. candidate has to be blessed by the wacko's on their fringe. It's the kiss of death.

No fair-minded independent is going to want to put a candidate that's held hostage by their extremists in office. What we'll get is a repub president being forced to push an extremist agenda. There will be no room for horse-trading like the days of old. I mean, just look at how getting rid of earmarking played right into the hands of the far right?

You think it's bad enough now with the repubs in the house being threatened into promoting an extremist position by a small minority of its members, just wait til' this small bunch of American style fundie-christian jihadists gets ahold of a president from their own party.

It's bad enough that a president from their opposition party was forced to give in to their demands, let alone a majority of their own party and its leadership begging for their blessings.

Majority rules? Not anymore.
 

Craig234

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May 1, 2006
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I don't think you lefties are following your orders from Commander Obama. You guys are supposed to be bashing Romney, he's gonna be the nominee. Don't worry about the freaks like Perry, Bachman, and Palin.

Romney is terrible in his own right - and it's hard to see how the Republican ticket won't include at LEAST a VP candidate from the tea party nuts (a la Palin), who would be first in line to become president - a serious danger to our country. The 'freaks' happen to be a powerful enough political force - with their low-profile billionare backers - they need to be addressed.
 

Brigandier

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Feb 12, 2008
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Romney is terrible in his own right - and it's hard to see how the Republican ticket won't include at LEAST a VP candidate from the tea party nuts (a la Palin), who would be first in line to become president - a serious danger to our country. The 'freaks' happen to be a powerful enough political force - with their low-profile billionare backers - they need to be addressed.

I would think America fully understands what it gets when they elect a former Texas governor, that loves Jesus quite a bit...
 

ichy

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Oct 5, 2006
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I don't think you lefties are following your orders from Commander Obama. You guys are supposed to be bashing Romney, he's gonna be the nominee. Don't worry about the freaks like Perry, Bachman, and Palin.

I'm far from an ObamaBot, but I have to agree to agree with Craig that Perry is a nauseating weasel.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
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This thread is more an example of Craig's lack of brain cells than it is Perry's lack of principles.

He didn't say the vaccination was bad, he said the way he went about it was bad. That seems like the hallmark of a good politician. He's also right in that if the people of Texas want him to do x, since he works for them he should do x or try to convince them that y is the better route.

I know it's amazing and hard to believe, but there are some that don't think government always knows best. Shocking, I know.
 

the DRIZZLE

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Sep 6, 2007
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Romney is terrible in his own right - and it's hard to see how the Republican ticket won't include at LEAST a VP candidate from the tea party nuts (a la Palin), who would be first in line to become president - a serious danger to our country. The 'freaks' happen to be a powerful enough political force - with their low-profile billionare backers - they need to be addressed.

Though I'm sure we have very different definitions of what constitutes a nut, I guarantee you we won't see a Palin or Bachman on the ticket for the reason you stated. Virtually no one wants these people close to the presidency. Their base within the party is very small, but they get a lot of play in the media so it looks bigger than it is.
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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From everything I have read about him, he is a Bush clone but with even less brain cells.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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I don't think you lefties are following your orders from Commander Obama. You guys are supposed to be bashing Romney, he's gonna be the nominee. Don't worry about the freaks like Perry, Bachman, and Palin.

They have to worry about people who aren't Obama carbon copies.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
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Craig: government knows best!

:rolleyes:

Oh give me a break. Perry advocated a freaking vaccination program - on a state level - with an opt out. "Small governement" ideology isn't even really a "states rights" platform, nor is it "libertarian" in this country. Liberals are basically correct to characterize it as at or very close to anarchy. No reason to parody Craig as "government knows best" here. Look in the mirror and discover who respresents the crazy.
 

Wreckem

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Sep 23, 2006
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This thread is more an example of Craig's lack of brain cells than it is Perry's lack of principles.

He didn't say the vaccination was bad, he said the way he went about it was bad. That seems like the hallmark of a good politician. He's also right in that if the people of Texas want him to do x, since he works for them he should do x or try to convince them that y is the better route.

I know it's amazing and hard to believe, but there are some that don't think government always knows best. Shocking, I know.

Is that why he tried to unilaterally force a foreign owned toll road called the TCC on to the state? Thank god the state GOP, the democratic party, and the citizens of Texas were against it.

Perry has tried to ram through stuff without consulting the Lege or the Citizens. Texas has always had a weak executive, but Perry has tried and at times has been successful at expanding his power. And its always fishy because the stuff that he tries to ram through always happens to have former staffs working for the company involved and/or the company was a large contributor to his campaign.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
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Is that why he tried to unilaterally force a foreign owned toll road called the TCC on to the state? Thank god the state GOP, the democratic party, and the citizens of Texas were against it.

Sounds like you're providing yet another example where Perry listened (or had to listen) to the people. Problem not found.

Perry in 2012!
 

DesiPower

Lifer
Nov 22, 2008
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Any politician who has been around that long must have changed his policies at some time or the other, community organizers don't have a documented formal record so you cannot really see their flip-flops. Its no big deal, look at the bigger picture and from where I stand it looks much better than the status quo.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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Any politician who has been around that long must have changed his policies at some time or the other, community organizers don't have a documented formal record so you cannot really see their flip-flops. Its no big deal, look at the bigger picture and from where I stand it looks much better than the status quo.

You need to get a lot of clues.

Here's one: there are very different reasons for 'flip flops'. The better side is when a candidate finds a GOOD reason to switch, and does so because it's the right thing to do even if it's a political hit. Examples might be JFK greatly increasing his support for civil rights or peace after he learned more, or Reagan or Bush supporting reversing some of their tax cuts after realizing they'd gone too far.

This is an example of a politician taking a stand who did not have a good reason to switch. He took a position based on saving thousands of lives of people, and while NOTHING changed to affect why he took that position, he completely reversed it after years of standing by it simply to pander for votes. So his answer BY HIS OWN WORDS is that he's willing to sacrifice thousands of lives of "daughters and granddaughters" for his political good for no other reason.

That says a lot about his character.

But you are such a dishonest and clueless person you respond to that not appropriately, but by insinuating that Obama has probably done the same thing, without any facts to back it up -and with a garbage argument of calling him a 'community organizer' despite all evidence being that he's long, long since given up whatever that was about, to the disappointment of his base, as he's the #1 Wall Street donation recipient.

BTW, if he WERE a 'community organizer', he would not do what Perry did, flip flopping throwing away those thousands of lives for some votes.

Your last sentence says you who are - someone a lot like Perry. All you care about is 'how do you get Obama defeated', and you care nothing about an issue like reversing this position on the vaccine if it helps. You simply ignore the issue, because if it helps beat Obama, you're for it. You should vote for Perry, he represents you.
 

Craig234

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May 1, 2006
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Though I'm sure we have very different definitions of what constitutes a nut, I guarantee you we won't see a Palin or Bachman on the ticket for the reason you stated. Virtually no one wants these people close to the presidency. Their base within the party is very small, but they get a lot of play in the media so it looks bigger than it is.

I think you're right that the media exaggerate them unfortunately, but I think you underestimate their electability.

Here's my summary of how I think the Republican election basically works:

There's an agenda for the wealthy. You either sign up for it or you don't. If you don't, you don't get the backing of the large majority of support. It's hard to find an example who doesn't, but Ron Paul is one. He has SOME overlap with the agenda - for example, he'd support radically low taxes - but he's no sellout, and he does not get much support.

But if a candidate IS 'playing ball', then the instructions are , 'whoever gets the votes gets the support'.

So it doesn't matter - if you get votes by being suave (Romney), or a fundy panderer, or a space alien theorist, or with winks and mama bear posturing, or claiming to be about 'innovative policies' (Gingrich), or gun rights, or you're a celebrity, or a birther or a truther, or whatever, it doesn't matter as long as you can get votes. Do what you like.

That's the basics. It's how George Bush could do it; he was clearly a supporter of the agenda - his top two domestic priorities were the tax cuts weighted for the rich, and Medicare Part D (giveaway to their biggest donor industry); his top second term domestic priority was privatizing Social Security (less for the public, more for Wall Street, destroy the biggest Democratic program).

It didn't matter if he was a cocaine-supplying draft-dodging drunk-driving party boy; if he had not been out of the US except to party at the Mexican border and knew basically nothing about other countries but would bring in the team of 'experts' known as the neocons; he was on board with the wealthy agenda and got votes.

There's a reason most Republicans are fighting for the crazy vote, because there are plenty of votes there for the primary. That's what matters. They're pretty much all on board except Ron Paul with the wealthy agenda. If 'the black guy' gets it, great, he's an extremely pro-wealth CEO. All of them are on board. Remember the 100% of them saying they would oppose a deal with 90% spending cuts, 10% revenue increases. That's both pandering to the crazies and defending the wealthy.

There's really nothing in the way of their getting elected if they can sell voters; Palin was bottom of the barrel and made the VP nominee.

We've had our examples of 'unelectable' bad candidates getting elected by the formula above - Reagan was one, W another. Any of these 'crazies' can be as well.

I've often quoted, 'Politicians have to LOOK good to voters and DO good for donors'. And these 'crazies' are doing that, for the crazy Republican base.

The question is just how many Americans fit it.

People tend to project their views, and 'reasonable' voters often think 'there can't be many crazy voters', and underestimate the issue.

Romney is the front runner - but he's an especially sleazy member of the 'corporatist right'. And he's no more guaranteed the nomination that Hillary was. Right now, all the competitors for the crazy part are splitting the vote - he might not do as well as they drop out. Rick Perry is viewed as someone with appeal to both the corporatist and crazy elements, which is what makes him more of a danger to other candidates. He's #2 in polls before even declaring or getting all that corporate money to spend.

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