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"A Few Good Men" quote really hits home for me

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yowolabi

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2001
4,183
2
81
"Indeed, conceit, arrogance, and egotism are the essentials of patriotism... Patriotism assumes that our globe is divided into little spots... Those who have had the fortune of being born on some particular spot, consider themselves better, nobler, grander, more intelligent than the living beings inhabiting any other spot. It is, therefore, the duty of everyone living on that chosen spot to fight, kill, and die in the attempt to impose his superiority upon all the others."
-Emma Goldman


One is left with the horrible feeling now that war settles nothing; that to win a war is as disastrous as to lose one.
-Agatha Christie


"Those who, while they disapprove of the character and measures of a government, yield to it their allegiance and support, are undoubtedly its most conscientious supporters, and so frequently the most serious obstacles to reform."
-Henry David Thoreau


"Patriotism... means to stand by the country. It doesn't mean to stand by the president or any other public official (servant) save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the extent that by inefficiency he fails in his duty to stand by the country. In either event, it is unpatriotic not to tell the truth -- whether about the president or anyone else -- save in rare cases where this would make known to the enemy information of military value which would otherwise be unknown to him."
-Theodore Roosevelt


You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war
-Albert Einstein


Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such a purpose -- and you allow him to make war at pleasure. If today, he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada, to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him, 'I see no probability of the British invading us' but he will say to you, 'Be silent; I see it, if you don't.'"
-Abraham Lincoln


Even a cursory glance at history should convince one that individual crimes committed for selfish motives play a quite insignificant part in the human tragedy, compared to the numbers massacred in unselfish loyalty to one's tribe, nation, dynasty, church, or political ideology, ad majorem gloriam dei. The emphasis is on unselfish. Excepting a small minority of mercenary or sadistic disposition, wars are not fought for personal gain, but out of loyalty and devotion to king, country or cause. Homicide committed for personal reasons is a statistical rarity in all cultures, including our own. Homicide for unselfish reasons, at the risk of one's own life, is the dominant phenomenon of history.
- Arthur Koestler


The belief in the possibility of a short decisive war appears to be one of the most ancient and dangerous of human illusions.
- Robert Lynd


To wage a war for a purely moral reason is as absurd as to ravish a woman for a purely moral reason.
- H.L. Mencken


One of the most fashionable notions of our times is that social problems like poverty and oppression breed wars. Most wars, however, are started by well-fed people with time on their hands to dream up half-baked ideologies or grandiose ambitions, and to nurse real or imagined grievances.
- Thomas Sowell


In all history there is no war which was not hatched by the governments, the governments alone, independent of the interests of the people, to whom war is always pernicious even when successful.
- Leo Tolstoy


Political history is largely an account of mass violence and of the expenditure of vast resources to cope with mythical fears and hopes.
- Murray Edelman
 

Marshallj

Platinum Member
Mar 26, 2003
2,326
0
0
The more I read posts by certain bleeding heart liberals in here, the more I realize that this nation is doomed. People are biting off the hand that feeds them, and trying to take away the guns that protect them.

I hope that someday I get the satisfaction of seeing them forced to sleep in the bed they made.
 

ManSnake

Diamond Member
Oct 26, 2000
4,749
0
0
Originally posted by: Marshallj
The more I read posts by certain bleeding heart liberals in here, the more I realize that this nation is doomed. People are biting off the hand that feeds them, and trying to take away the guns that protect them.

I hope that someday I get the satisfaction of seeing them forced to sleep in the bed they made.
Then it's good to know that I have enough Benjamins to always have others make my bed for me :p
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Originally posted by: ManSnake
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: ManSnake
That quote is retarded. If he said that back in the draft days, then maybe I would've agreed. Now people join the military because they want to. It's their choice, I didn't force them too. Plus I am doing my part by paying my taxes.

So my answer is hell no, I don't have to say thanks to you.
From you, I don't thank the troops would want a thank you.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
--John Stewart Mill--

They would want it from someone they could respect.
Sorry, you are not the troops, so don't think for them please!
Not at this time, but I have served, US Navy FTG2. My brother was in the Navy during the Vietnam conflict and another family member is currently serving in the Navy. My father was a Captain in the Army during WWII in the Pacific, Guadalcanal was one of his posts there.

Speaking for myself and the members of my family who have served We served our country so you would have the right to hold your stupid attitude that you do your part for this country by merely paying taxes. We also served so that we may say that it is a stupid attitude and that you have not earned the respect that our service members have.

The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
--John Stewart Mill--

 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,823
0
76
Originally posted by: Marshallj
The more I read posts by certain bleeding heart liberals in here, the more I realize that this nation is doomed. People are biting off the hand that feeds them, and trying to take away the guns that protect them.
Are you actually referring to anything in this thread or did you just forget to take your meds?

 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,823
0
76
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: ManSnake
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: ManSnake
That quote is retarded. If he said that back in the draft days, then maybe I would've agreed. Now people join the military because they want to. It's their choice, I didn't force them too. Plus I am doing my part by paying my taxes.

So my answer is hell no, I don't have to say thanks to you.
From you, I don't thank the troops would want a thank you.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
--John Stewart Mill--

They would want it from someone they could respect.
Sorry, you are not the troops, so don't think for them please!
Not at this time, but I have served, US Navy FTG2. My brother was in the Navy during the Vietnam conflict and another family member is currently serving in the Navy. My father was a Captain in the Army during WWII in the Pacific, Guadalcanal was one of his posts there.

Speaking for myself and the members of my family who have served We served our country so you would have the right to hold your stupid attitude that you do your part for this country by merely paying taxes. We also served so that we may say that it is a stupid attitude and that you have not earned the respect that our service members have.

The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
--John Stewart Mill--
Most are willing to fight for what they believe in, but invading Iraq really has nothing to do with freedom. If you really want to fight for freedom you should be after this Patriot Act that the current administration has given us.

That's a real threat to freedom.

 

ManSnake

Diamond Member
Oct 26, 2000
4,749
0
0
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: ManSnake
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: ManSnake
That quote is retarded. If he said that back in the draft days, then maybe I would've agreed. Now people join the military because they want to. It's their choice, I didn't force them too. Plus I am doing my part by paying my taxes.

So my answer is hell no, I don't have to say thanks to you.
From you, I don't thank the troops would want a thank you.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
--John Stewart Mill--

They would want it from someone they could respect.
Sorry, you are not the troops, so don't think for them please!
Not at this time, but I have served, US Navy FTG2. My brother was in the Navy during the Vietnam conflict and another family member is currently serving in the Navy. My father was a Captain in the Army during WWII in the Pacific, Guadalcanal was one of his posts there.

Speaking for myself and the members of my family who have served We served our country so you would have the right to hold your stupid attitude that you do your part for this country by merely paying taxes. We also served so that we may say that it is a stupid attitude and that you have not earned the respect that our service members have.

The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
--John Stewart Mill--
It's ok that I haven't "earned" your respect, it's your opinion and you are allowed to express it even though I may think it's pretty dumb, it's a free country. I am perfectly fine with that. Just so you know, I am not posting in these threads to make friends.

As for family members served in military, I can tell you plenty of my relatives and friends served or are serving too. As much as you don't like to hear it, without tax payers, we won't have as powerful a military as we have today.

Regarding the original quote, I sure as hell won't thank anyone who possess that kind of attitude. Instead I would tell them to thank me, without people like me, they won't even get paid!
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
flavio
Most are willing to fight for what they believe in, but invading Iraq really has nothing to do with freedom. If you really want to fight for freedom you should be after this Patriot Act that the current administration has given us.

That's a real threat to freedom.
I consider the cynicism of the young towards our government, our country and what it stands for to be the greatest danger that this country faces.
 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,823
0
76
Originally posted by: etech
flavio
Most are willing to fight for what they believe in, but invading Iraq really has nothing to do with freedom. If you really want to fight for freedom you should be after this Patriot Act that the current administration has given us.

That's a real threat to freedom.
I consider the cynicism of the young towards our government, our country and what it stands for to be the greatest danger that this country faces.
I consider the unthinking masses that go along with whatever the government tells them to believe a much greater danger.

 

DanJ

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
3,509
0
0
Originally posted by: flavio
Most are willing to fight for what they believe in, but invading Iraq really has nothing to do with freedom. If you really want to fight for freedom you should be after this Patriot Act that the current administration has given us.

That's a real threat to freedom.
Yep.
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: etech
flavio
Most are willing to fight for what they believe in, but invading Iraq really has nothing to do with freedom. If you really want to fight for freedom you should be after this Patriot Act that the current administration has given us.

That's a real threat to freedom.
I consider the cynicism of the young towards our government, our country and what it stands for to be the greatest danger that this country faces.
I consider the unthinking masses that go along with whatever the government tells them to believe a much greater danger.

When you actually find one of them, let me know. I have found my example.
 

yowolabi

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2001
4,183
2
81
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: etech
flavio
Most are willing to fight for what they believe in, but invading Iraq really has nothing to do with freedom. If you really want to fight for freedom you should be after this Patriot Act that the current administration has given us.

That's a real threat to freedom.
I consider the cynicism of the young towards our government, our country and what it stands for to be the greatest danger that this country faces.
I consider the unthinking masses that go along with whatever the government tells them to believe a much greater danger.

When you actually find one of them, let me know. I have found my example.
Ditto
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: DanJ
Originally posted by: flavio
Most are willing to fight for what they believe in, but invading Iraq really has nothing to do with freedom. If you really want to fight for freedom you should be after this Patriot Act that the current administration has given us.

That's a real threat to freedom.
Yep.
Fortunatly,the patriotic act will expire in the next year or so...
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Originally posted by: yowolabi
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: etech
flavio
Most are willing to fight for what they believe in, but invading Iraq really has nothing to do with freedom. If you really want to fight for freedom you should be after this Patriot Act that the current administration has given us.

That's a real threat to freedom.
I consider the cynicism of the young towards our government, our country and what it stands for to be the greatest danger that this country faces.
I consider the unthinking masses that go along with whatever the government tells them to believe a much greater danger.

When you actually find one of them, let me know. I have found my example.
Ditto
"Ditto", that's the best you can come up with.

I should know by now not to get into a battle of wits with an unarmed man. It's a waste of my time. flavio, if you have followed my posts than you know that I have researched this situation as well as I am able to. I have made up my own mind. You have not found your example buy are proving mine for me.


 

DanJ

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
3,509
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: DanJ
Originally posted by: flavio
Most are willing to fight for what they believe in, but invading Iraq really has nothing to do with freedom. If you really want to fight for freedom you should be after this Patriot Act that the current administration has given us.

That's a real threat to freedom.
Yep.
Fortunatly,the patriotic act will expire in the next year or so...
Unless its renewed; but in 2005 we shouldn't have Bush so yea, it should expire. Of course we have Patriot Act II (Ashcroft's Revenge) in the queue....
 

Marshallj

Platinum Member
Mar 26, 2003
2,326
0
0
Originally posted by: flavio<br
Are you actually referring to anything in this thread or did you just forget to take your meds?
I'm referring to more than just this thread, I'm referring to an unfortunate trend I see in this country, with people acting illogically. We live in a nice rich country (that we gained by conquering the native people) and you get these wackos who are against the very thing that got them everything they had. I think the only people in America that have room to talk like that are the Native Americans.

It's so easy for people to claim they want peace after they already have what they want and they're living on someone else's land.

At least I'm consistent.... I say that war is unfortunate, but a necessary evil. Sometimes you have to fight for what you want. Freedom and wealth are things that are fought for, not given to you. If these liberals' ancestors were as sensitive as they are, these people wouldn't have the right to talk.
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
DanJ


I'm curious, how long will it take for you to post the exact freedoms you are losing under the Patroit Act?

The clock is ticking.

 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,823
0
76
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: etech
flavio
Most are willing to fight for what they believe in, but invading Iraq really has nothing to do with freedom. If you really want to fight for freedom you should be after this Patriot Act that the current administration has given us.

That's a real threat to freedom.
I consider the cynicism of the young towards our government, our country and what it stands for to be the greatest danger that this country faces.
I consider the unthinking masses that go along with whatever the government tells them to believe a much greater danger.

When you actually find one of them, let me know. I have found my example.
They're all over AT, in fact it's hard not to run into them anywhere else either.

 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,823
0
76
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: yowolabi
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: etech
flavio
Most are willing to fight for what they believe in, but invading Iraq really has nothing to do with freedom. If you really want to fight for freedom you should be after this Patriot Act that the current administration has given us.

That's a real threat to freedom.
I consider the cynicism of the young towards our government, our country and what it stands for to be the greatest danger that this country faces.
I consider the unthinking masses that go along with whatever the government tells them to believe a much greater danger.

When you actually find one of them, let me know. I have found my example.
Ditto
"Ditto", that's the best you can come up with.

I should know by now not to get into a battle of wits with an unarmed man. It's a waste of my time. flavio, if you have followed my posts than you know that I have researched this situation as well as I am able to. I have made up my own mind. You have not found your example buy are proving mine for me.
Did you get me confuesed with yowolabi for a second there? Is this the "wits" you're talking about?

 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,823
0
76
Originally posted by: Marshallj
Originally posted by: flavio<br
Are you actually referring to anything in this thread or did you just forget to take your meds?
I'm referring to more than just this thread, I'm referring to an unfortunate trend I see in this country, with people acting illogically. We live in a nice rich country (that we gained by conquering the native people) and you get these wackos who are against the very thing that got them everything they had. I think the only people in America that have room to talk like that are the Native Americans.

It's so easy for people to claim they want peace after they already have what they want and they're living on someone else's land.

At least I'm consistent.... I say that war is unfortunate, but a necessary evil. Sometimes you have to fight for what you want. Freedom and wealth are things that are fought for, not given to you. If these liberals' ancestors were as sensitive as they are, these people wouldn't have the right to talk.
So you'll pretty much support any war any time? We should probably be fighting just about all the time and it doesn't even matter with who by your logic.

 

Marshallj

Platinum Member
Mar 26, 2003
2,326
0
0
Hearing a healthy, wealthy, well fed person speaking out against war just doesn't seem right to me. They already have everything they need, they are already enjoying the fruits of someone else's labor.

I want to hear a sickly, malnourished, impoverished person from a needy country speak out against war. Let's see if they think "the good life" is not worth fighting for.
 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,823
0
76
Originally posted by: Marshallj
Hearing a healthy, wealthy, well fed person speaking out against war just doesn't seem right to me. They already have everything they need, they are already enjoying the fruits of someone else's labor.

I want to hear a sickly, malnourished, impoverished person from a needy country speak out against war. Let's see if they think "the good life" is not worth fighting for.
Again with that "All wars are good" thing?

Our "good life" was not baing threatened by Iraq. In fact we just lost a big tax cut because of it. We would have had more "good life" without it.

 

DanJ

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
3,509
0
0
Originally posted by: etech
DanJ
I'm curious, how long will it take for you to post the exact freedoms you are losing under the Patroit Act?

The clock is ticking.
Search and seizure with a warrant not needed until afterwards ("sneak-and-peak" warrants).
Legal survaliance of anyone without the need for probable cause
Secret "Military Tribunals" for people considered to be "terrorists".
Random arrests because the President and his Administration feel you could be a terrorist.
Internet privacy is gone.

The list goes on. Basically it allows for tremendous power to the Government, something that could easily and probably is being abused.

I suppose you think its wonderful?

"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. " - Benjamin Franklin
 

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