"A day without illegals" should they be fired when they return to work on Tuesday

[zanieladie]

Yes to all 3!

 

[tommywishbone]

Yes x 3

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: judasmachine

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: judasmachine
some businesses would be unable to open without them. the swift plant in dumas texas is a prime example. probably 20% of their employees are illegal, another 30% are questionable, and something like 70% of them are hispanic. so if they all took a hike on monday and were fired, swift would have to close the plant, that is until the latest batch of illegal immigrant showed up. i have first hand knowledge of the place and their practices.

Jobs in the meat packing plants used to be some of the highest paying jobs around. Since you have first hand knowledge I'd like to ask you a question. Did Americans just walk away from high paying jobs in the meat packing industry or did ILLEGALS ruin the jobs by coming in and doing them for less?

This is in a town (Dumas, TX) with a population of roughly 14,000. There are two refinerys, and a meat packing plant. Valero runs the refinerys, and pays even better than Swift's $9 to $12 (IIRC)/hour. But in Dumas most of the kids are leaving for school, or just to escape small town life. To answer your question as honestly as I can, I'd say the Americans are walking away, mainly to get educations, and as I mentioned to escape the dull small town life. I'd also like to add that Valero has much stricter hiring practices than Swift does. The reason I know all this is my father was a personal manager for Swift (Monfort, Excel, or whoever owns that plant this week), and later Valero for many many years.

Thanks.

So American kids are leaving to get an education or to escape small town life and that gave Swift the opening to hire ILLEGALS to fill those jobs. Did Swift's drop their pay rate when they started hiring ILLEGALS? What about working conditions, benefits, etc.? Did they improve, remain stagnant, or decline? Also, what effect has the influx of ILLEGALS had on small town life in Dumas? Do people there mind that the jobs that were once done by Americans are now being done by people who are here ILLEGALLY?

I can see how ILLEGALS can get jobs in a border state like Texas. But here in the Northeast we're pretty far from the border. Yet there are ILLEGALS in just about every town standing on street corners looking for day labor jobs. The construction industry here is just about ruined because contractors would rather pay some ILLEGAL $40 a day than pay a union carpenter's salary and benefits. There are ILLEGALS at the ports here. Not longshoremen, truck drivers, owner operators. They'll move containers for next to nothing. Legitimate businesses have to compete with them and they're finding it very difficult. Restaurants, building maintenance, you name it. There are ILLEGALS here willing to do any job they can get their hands on for less.

If immigration laws were enforced none of this would be happening. The marketplace would work out the details. If Swift, the construction industry, transportation, or any other industry needed to attract workers they'd just have to do what it took to attract American workers. As it is now, these ILLEGALS -- here because of lack of enforcement -- are making it easy for companies large and small to ignore market forces and take the easy road.

Americans don't realize what they are giving up when they allow someone who doesn't even belong here to walk in and take their jobs. They won't realize what they've lost until it's gone. And, of course, by then it'll be too late.

Thank God I'm retired.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Is it just the illegals that will "boycott" or will a large amount if immigrants and sympathizers do it?

How will one tell if it is an illegal or legal person protesting.

Why does it matter? Anyone who supports this is an enemy of the USA in my opinion.

Heh, I guess people expressing their view that goes against yours is not allowed eh?

Before you go and call people the enemy of the USA, maybe it'll help if you go try to understand what are some of the fundamental rights of the USA.

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: judasmachine

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: judasmachine
some businesses would be unable to open without them. the swift plant in dumas texas is a prime example. probably 20% of their employees are illegal, another 30% are questionable, and something like 70% of them are hispanic. so if they all took a hike on monday and were fired, swift would have to close the plant, that is until the latest batch of illegal immigrant showed up. i have first hand knowledge of the place and their practices.

Jobs in the meat packing plants used to be some of the highest paying jobs around. Since you have first hand knowledge I'd like to ask you a question. Did Americans just walk away from high paying jobs in the meat packing industry or did ILLEGALS ruin the jobs by coming in and doing them for less?

This is in a town (Dumas, TX) with a population of roughly 14,000. There are two refinerys, and a meat packing plant. Valero runs the refinerys, and pays even better than Swift's $9 to $12 (IIRC)/hour. But in Dumas most of the kids are leaving for school, or just to escape small town life. To answer your question as honestly as I can, I'd say the Americans are walking away, mainly to get educations, and as I mentioned to escape the dull small town life. I'd also like to add that Valero has much stricter hiring practices than Swift does. The reason I know all this is my father was a personal manager for Swift (Monfort, Excel, or whoever owns that plant this week), and later Valero for many many years.

Thanks.

So American kids are leaving to get an education or to escape small town life and that gave Swift the opening to hire ILLEGALS to fill those jobs. Did Swift's drop their pay rate when they started hiring ILLEGALS? What about working conditions, benefits, etc.? Did they improve, remain stagnant, or decline? Also, what effect has the influx of ILLEGALS had on small town life in Dumas? Do people there mind that the jobs that were once done by Americans are now being done by people who are here ILLEGALLY?

I can see how ILLEGALS can get jobs in a border state like Texas. But here in the Northeast we're pretty far from the border. Yet there are ILLEGALS in just about every town standing on street corners looking for day labor jobs. The construction industry here is just about ruined because contractors would rather pay some ILLEGAL $40 a day than pay a union carpenter's salary and benefits. There are ILLEGALS at the ports here. Not longshoremen, truck drivers, owner operators. They'll move containers for next to nothing. Legitimate businesses have to compete with them and they're finding it very difficult. Restaurants, building maintenance, you name it. There are ILLEGALS here willing to do any job they can get their hands on for less.

If immigration laws were enforced none of this would be happening. The marketplace would work out the details. If Swift, the construction industry, transportation, or any other industry needed to attract workers they'd just have to do what it took to attract American workers. As it is now, these ILLEGALS -- here because of lack of enforcement -- are making it easy for companies large and small to ignore market forces and take the easy road.

Americans don't realize what they are giving up when they allow someone who doesn't even belong here to walk in and take their jobs. They won't realize what they've lost until it's gone. And, of course, by then it'll be too late.

Thank God I'm retired.

Most of the undocumented/migrant/illegal alien/people/whatever workers live outside of town in a small town that sprouted up right outside the plant called Cactus, TX but it's all right outside of Dumas (7miles.) The union has kept the pay and the benefits (the real blessing of working there) up there on par with most in the field. Working conditions have improved, it's still like walking into a prison, but it's clean, and the workers are well educated on the hazards they face. I know it's easy to blame the migrant worker, but it also has something to do with whiteflight (I hate that term but I'm at a loss), as the American kids take going to college for granted and forget that their fathers were happy to work for Swift. But the kids are scared to death of manual labor to begin with. Only the "loser" crowd of American kids work at the plant, aka those that can't work for Valero.

Oh and Cactus is a cesspool of crime, and drugs, and rape. There are some community members that are fighting to take their community back, but it's a helluvan uphill battle.

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Is it just the illegals that will "boycott" or will a large amount if immigrants and sympathizers do it?

How will one tell if it is an illegal or legal person protesting.

Why does it matter? Anyone who supports this is an enemy of the USA in my opinion.

Heh, I guess people expressing their view that goes against yours is not allowed eh?

Before you go and call people the enemy of the USA, maybe it'll help if you go try to understand what are some of the fundamental rights of the USA.

You took my words too literally and where, you can't point it out because I DIDN'T say it, did I ever say or IMPLY that expressing views contrary to mine are not allowed? I am well aware of the fundamental rights this country was founded on. I am sure you are in the USA because China wasn't founded on anything even remotely similar. What would they do to an influx of illegals in China? The answer would definitely not be pretty.

The fundamental rights this country was founded on were also predicated and protected by the rule of law established along with the country. Illegal, and I say ILLEGAL, immigrants do not respect the rule of law and thus should not enjoy the fundamental rights and freedoms the law USED to protect in this country. I stress the illegal part because most people think this issue is about immigration and it is not, itis about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.

 

[Zebo]

Yeah right! They are going to fire people making $9 an hour in a very dangerous job like meat packing when American asked $19 an hour back in the day before they were told take it or leave it.. with inflation I would'nt be surprised if it's $25 an hour now. Money talks $9 vs $25 it's an easy choice for employers to give them a day off.

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Yeah right! They are going to fire people making $9 an hour in a very dangerous job like meat packing when American asked $19 an hour back in the day before they were told take it or leave it.. with inflation I would'nt be surprised if it's $25 an hour now. Money talks $9 vs $25 it's an easy choice for employers to give them a day off.

Yep. many meat packing plants are planning on just closing for the day to accommodate the would (may) be protestors.

after giving my insight, i would like to say that i'm for a program that would require these folks to register, and work towards some form of guest visa, or citizenship. perhaps a form of probation, and education that would teach them to better integrate into american society. one or two strikes and you're out, but only one if you refuse to register. i support this mainly because i've witnessed first hand the arrogance of the local citizenry towards working such a dirty dangerous job. they feel that college is their right, and that only losers would want to work said job.

 

[wazzledoozle]

Im not for illegal immigration, the bigger problem seems to be corporations that are willing to pay them under the table and support this underground system. We need to stop both. We should deal with the problem at the source, not try to arrest everyone exploiting the timid politicians.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: judasmachine

Originally posted by: Zebo
Yeah right! They are going to fire people making $9 an hour in a very dangerous job like meat packing when American asked $19 an hour back in the day before they were told take it or leave it.. with inflation I would'nt be surprised if it's $25 an hour now. Money talks $9 vs $25 it's an easy choice for employers to give them a day off.

Yep. many meat packing plants are planning on just closing for the day to accommodate the would (may) be protestors.

after giving my insight, i would like to say that i'm for a program that would require these folks to register, and work towards some form of guest visa, or citizenship. perhaps a form of probation, and education that would teach them to better integrate into american society. one or two strikes and you're out, but only one if you refuse to register. i support this mainly because i've witnessed first hand the arrogance of the local citizenry towards working such a dirty dangerous job. they feel that college is their right, and that only losers would want to work said job.

Do you blame them? I mean what other choice do they have since you can't raise a family anymore working a blue collar type job such as construction, meat packing, truck driving etc. They have no other choice but seek higher education and hope there is a real job with thier name on it upon graduation.

When My parents immigrated, 1961, blue collar jobs paid very well. My dad drove for pepsi cola and somehow managed to by a house in expensive SoCal raise 8 kids sent all but 3 to college and even start a lighting company business later in life. I'm not sure that's possible today as wages have stagnated or even gone down for the working class who are essentially paycheck to paycheck, no savings and sometimes even in debt beyond a house a payment.

 

[OrByte]

no to all 3!

 

[aswedc]

Do you blame them? I mean what other choice do they have since you can't raise a family anymore working a blue collar type job such as construction, meat packing, truck driving etc. They have no other choice but seek higher education and hope there is a real job with thier name on it upon graduation.

Sure you can. Haven't you seen those billboards for truck drivers? Around 50 cents a mile. That can be a good $30.hr A plumber came out to my house for an hour to fix a problem. The charge? $300. Hell, I knew some college aged kids who made around $18/hr doing contruction work.

Nearly as much as those with a college education? Of course not. Enough to raise a family if you cut out luxuries? Yup.

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Do you blame them? I mean what other choice do they have since you can't raise a family anymore working a blue collar type job such as construction, meat packing, truck driving etc. They have no other choice but seek higher education and hope there is a real job with thier name on it upon graduation.

When My parents immigrated, 1961, blue collar jobs paid very well. My dad drove for pepsi cola and somehow managed to by a house in expensive SoCal raise 8 kids sent all but 3 to college and even start a lighting company business later in life. I'm not sure that's possible today as wages have stagnated or even gone down for the working class who are essentially paycheck to paycheck, no savings and sometimes even in debt beyond a house a payment.

Nope. Don't blame them one bit, higher education is nessacery to do anything beyond pay rent and eat. I'm just saying that these kids wouldn't dare go out in a field and pick beans, or stand on a line and cut meat. Hell I'm one of them, although I did some time in the beef mines before I made up my mind.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: aswedc

Do you blame them? I mean what other choice do they have since you can't raise a family anymore working a blue collar type job such as construction, meat packing, truck driving etc. They have no other choice but seek higher education and hope there is a real job with thier name on it upon graduation.

Sure you can. Haven't you seen those billboards for truck drivers? Around 50 cents a mile. That can be a good $30.hr A plumber came out to my house for an hour to fix a problem. The charge? $300. Hell, I knew some college aged kids who made around $18/hr doing contruction work.

Nearly as much as those with a college education? Of course not. Enough to raise a family if you cut out luxuries? Yup.

Those are possibly owner-operator wages.. The cost of fuel, repairs/parts, and insurance and highway taxes take TONS of that pittance called a wage....

My parents owned a trucking company 20 years ago and they paid owner operators far more than that .. back then .. and diesel was still much cheaper than unleaded...

Those trucks get about 6 mile per gallon and the insurance on a semi is astronomical

 

[dahunan]

OK.. I just looked and it is doubtful those are owner operator wages

Anyhow.. IIRC we used to pay 85 cents a mile.. they ain't making much more than that nowadays.. and the cost of fuel has doubled at least..

I am just glad we can spend $400,000,000,000 in Iraq

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: aswedc

Do you blame them? I mean what other choice do they have since you can't raise a family anymore working a blue collar type job such as construction, meat packing, truck driving etc. They have no other choice but seek higher education and hope there is a real job with thier name on it upon graduation.

Sure you can. Haven't you seen those billboards for truck drivers? Around 50 cents a mile. That can be a good $30.hr A plumber came out to my house for an hour to fix a problem. The charge? $300. Hell, in high school I knew some kids who made around $18/hr doing contruction work.

Nearly as much as those with a college education? Of course not. Enough to raise a family if you cut out luxuries? Yup.

Thats not at all what guys are getting paid today. Go walk on a non-union or non prevaling wage job site and ask the forman for a job, you'll see $7-$12 an hour is typical from guys I talk to employing them. You've heard people in this thread who have experiance say dangerous meat packing had been reduced to a $9 an hour poverty wage job. Pluming and big rig drivers need specialized skills, english fluency and training - and even so do you think the plumber gets all that $300 and 50 cents a mile is net or he has to pay for gas or buy the truck himself with company credit? Finally even if your freinds made $18 an hour that's not enough to even afford a house in many parts of the county let alone raise a family.

 

[dahunan]

My biological father earned $30hr as a Veteran plasterer...

I once got prevailing wage for low level construction laborer working at an airport in 1987 - $18hr back then.... in Oregon.. Today.. I can only guess how bad it must be

 

[darianandre]

If I am fired, so be it.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: dahunan
OK.. I just looked and it is doubtful those are owner operator wages

Anyhow.. IIRC we used to pay 85 cents a mile.. they ain't making much more than that nowadays.. and the cost of fuel has doubled at least..

I am just glad we can spend $400,000,000,000 in Iraq

My dad said the ssame thing. Back in the 80's drivers where making what they make today.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: dahunan
OK.. I just looked and it is doubtful those are owner operator wages

Anyhow.. IIRC we used to pay 85 cents a mile.. they ain't making much more than that nowadays.. and the cost of fuel has doubled at least..

I am just glad we can spend $400,000,000,000 in Iraq

My dad said the ssame thing. Back in the 80's drivers where making what they make today.

and the insurance requirements went way up and the cost of fuel.. why is diesel fuel so expensive

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: judasmachine

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: judasmachine

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: judasmachine
some businesses would be unable to open without them. the swift plant in dumas texas is a prime example. probably 20% of their employees are illegal, another 30% are questionable, and something like 70% of them are hispanic. so if they all took a hike on monday and were fired, swift would have to close the plant, that is until the latest batch of illegal immigrant showed up. i have first hand knowledge of the place and their practices.

Jobs in the meat packing plants used to be some of the highest paying jobs around. Since you have first hand knowledge I'd like to ask you a question. Did Americans just walk away from high paying jobs in the meat packing industry or did ILLEGALS ruin the jobs by coming in and doing them for less?

This is in a town (Dumas, TX) with a population of roughly 14,000. There are two refinerys, and a meat packing plant. Valero runs the refinerys, and pays even better than Swift's $9 to $12 (IIRC)/hour. But in Dumas most of the kids are leaving for school, or just to escape small town life. To answer your question as honestly as I can, I'd say the Americans are walking away, mainly to get educations, and as I mentioned to escape the dull small town life. I'd also like to add that Valero has much stricter hiring practices than Swift does. The reason I know all this is my father was a personal manager for Swift (Monfort, Excel, or whoever owns that plant this week), and later Valero for many many years.

Thanks.

So American kids are leaving to get an education or to escape small town life and that gave Swift the opening to hire ILLEGALS to fill those jobs. Did Swift's drop their pay rate when they started hiring ILLEGALS? What about working conditions, benefits, etc.? Did they improve, remain stagnant, or decline? Also, what effect has the influx of ILLEGALS had on small town life in Dumas? Do people there mind that the jobs that were once done by Americans are now being done by people who are here ILLEGALLY?

I can see how ILLEGALS can get jobs in a border state like Texas. But here in the Northeast we're pretty far from the border. Yet there are ILLEGALS in just about every town standing on street corners looking for day labor jobs. The construction industry here is just about ruined because contractors would rather pay some ILLEGAL $40 a day than pay a union carpenter's salary and benefits. There are ILLEGALS at the ports here. Not longshoremen, truck drivers, owner operators. They'll move containers for next to nothing. Legitimate businesses have to compete with them and they're finding it very difficult. Restaurants, building maintenance, you name it. There are ILLEGALS here willing to do any job they can get their hands on for less.

If immigration laws were enforced none of this would be happening. The marketplace would work out the details. If Swift, the construction industry, transportation, or any other industry needed to attract workers they'd just have to do what it took to attract American workers. As it is now, these ILLEGALS -- here because of lack of enforcement -- are making it easy for companies large and small to ignore market forces and take the easy road.

Americans don't realize what they are giving up when they allow someone who doesn't even belong here to walk in and take their jobs. They won't realize what they've lost until it's gone. And, of course, by then it'll be too late.

Thank God I'm retired.

Most of the undocumented/migrant/illegal alien/people/whatever workers live outside of town in a small town that sprouted up right outside the plant called Cactus, TX but it's all right outside of Dumas (7miles.) The union has kept the pay and the benefits (the real blessing of working there) up there on par with most in the field. Working conditions have improved, it's still like walking into a prison, but it's clean, and the workers are well educated on the hazards they face. I know it's easy to blame the migrant worker, but it also has something to do with whiteflight (I hate that term but I'm at a loss), as the American kids take going to college for granted and forget that their fathers were happy to work for Swift. But the kids are scared to death of manual labor to begin with. Only the "loser" crowd of American kids work at the plant, aka those that can't work for Valero.

Oh and Cactus is a cesspool of crime, and drugs, and rape. There are some community members that are fighting to take their community back, but it's a helluvan uphill battle.

Thanks again for a first hand look at what ILLEGAL immigration is doing to American jobs and American towns. Even if it is American kids who are afraid of manual labor making it possible for the ILLEGALS to get a foothold, just look at what the ILLEGALS are doing to American towns -- to quote -- "a cesspool of crime, and drugs, and rape".

The ILLEGALS are turning America into Mexico. Now really, how many Americans can honestly say they want that?

To hear OFFascist tell it, Americans are "lazy" "incompetent" "TRASH". Hearing your first hand account of what the ILLEGAL immigrant invasion is doing to American towns, it sounds like there definitely is some "trash" out there, but it isn't American "trash".

That brings me to another point. I've had quite a bit of first hand experience with ILLEGALS myself, and the basic feeling I've gotten is their intense animosity toward American citizens. Their outrageous belief that Americans are somehow overpaid and that we have too many benefits. It's a very weird experience working side by side with people who don't belong here in the first place but who, rather than keeping their mouths shut, criticize our workers, our labor system, our social services, and instead of wanting to join the mainstream would rather tear what we as Americans expect as citizens and create another failed cesspool like the one they ILLEGALLY came here to escape -- as they take advantage of our workers, our labor system, and our social services.

Most of the ILLEGALS I've known, worked with, played sports with, DETEST Americans. They'll tell you to your face that they are the fastest growing minority and that when they gain sufficient numbers and political power they are going to wield that power against the Americans whose country they have invaded. The Americans that they detest.

If you don't believe me, just go back and read some of OFFascist's posts. And he claims to be an American! If he's at all indicative of how an American Hispanic feels, just imagine what the ILLEGALS are thinking!

I could tell a few horror stories but I won't. And before people start screaming "racism" please, I don't differentiate between the dregs of Mexican society coming here to lower our standard of living to theirs any more than I would if it was the dregs of European society, Chinese society, African society, Australian society, the dregs of ANY society.

The fact is, we are being invaded by the dregs of Mexican and Central American society -- currently somewhere around 12 million of them -- and it's got to stop. I'm sure there are many ILLEGALS who are good people, just coming here to find a better life than they can find in their own country. I've worked with ILLEGALS who I've liked and who are very appreciative of what the opportunities they've ILLEGALLY come here to enjoy. But along with them come the troublemakers and the America haters.

I saw a scroll on CNN this morning. IIRC, seventy-three percent of the Hispanic jail population in the U.S. is made up of ILLEGAL immigrants. Now, what does that tell you?

Another thing, when you have a group of foreigners inside your nation ILLEGALLY who can wield enough power to force major corporations to shut down whenver they choose to hold a protest, who can have such a negative effect on the economy, it's only indicative of the seriousness of the situation. It only goes to show that something has to be done NOW, before they gain even more numbers and more power. Allowing them to continue holding that kind of power only invites more of the same, more control of our nation by people who aren't even citizens. It amounts to a foreign takeover of our economy, our nation.

When and if our legislators grow a pair and demand that our immigration laws be enforced and the will of the vast majority of American citizens is honored, the market forces that bush likes to tout when it's to his advantage will take over and the threat of ILLEGAL foreigners controlling large sectors of our economy will diminish.

Until then, and on the bright side, word is getting out among the community of ILLEGAL invaders that something is in the works. The VAST majority of Americans are tired of people who shouldn't even be here demanding "rights" that aren't theirs, taking jobs from American workers, leechin off of our already strained social services system -- strained due to bush's war on the middle class, BTW -- and criticizing the very nation and the very people they are taking advantage of.

The illegals are watching their backs. Maybe realizing they should have just kept quiet and stayed in the shadows. But it's too late now. bush and his plan to bring them into the spotlight in order to deflate wages and further harm social services, to pander for their votes, is collapsing. It isn't working. Americans can see the end result of the ILLEGAL immigrant invasion and we don't like what we see.

So, since the ball is already rolling, let's keep it rolling.

Urban myth strikes fear in illegal immigrants

Rumors of mass roundups cause them to withdraw into shadows

Monday, May 01, 2006
BY BRIAN DONOHUE AND JONATHAN CASIANO
Star-Ledger Staff

At Sabor Latino in Newark's Ironbound section, the usually crammed breakfast counter was empty Saturday, save a young boy picking at a plate of eggs and potatoes. By dinner time, the scene wasn't much different.

Farther down Ferry Street, usually hot-selling international phone cards languished on the rack at La Herencia Ecuatoriana music store.

Thirty miles away in Dover, Sergio Ferrari said he has lost a quarter of the business at his luncheonette the past week because illegal immigrant laborers have retreated into the shadows.

"The people are afraid. They hear rumors about raids at different factories, different places," Ferrari said. "There's a Mexican girl who cleans my house, and she canceled her appointment at the consulate in New York because they have to line up outside.

"She was afraid she'd be on line and get picked up."

Such unfounded fears have consumed New Jersey's immigrant community the past week as plans for today's protests and work force boycott competed with a rampant urban legend about massive immigration sweeps.

According to the rumors, immigration agents were on the streets and rounding up illegal immigrants in a bid to silence them today. As a result, many frightened immigrants have stayed home from work, skipped school and even canceled appointments with their lawyers.

"People were afraid to even go to the corner store," said Alfonso, 26, an undocumented construction worker from Belleville who stayed home two days last week because he heard work vans were being pulled over on the highways. "All the rumors said that if you were on the streets, they'd pull you aside, ask where you're from and ask for your papers." He spoke on the condition his last name not be used, fearing deportation.

Crystal Williams, deputy director of programs at the American Immigration Lawyers Association, said she has never seen anything like the rumors sweeping the nation.

"I'm mystified," she said. "These stories we're getting are from reliable sources, loaded with specifics. Yet, we can't verify them."

IMPACT ON RALLIES
Some organizers of today's events said the rumors could hurt turnout at rallies statewide. Others said the rumors could prompt gardeners, busboys, construction workers and others in the immigrant labor pool to heed the boycott. Many are expected to stay home anyway.

"People who were more reluctant to participate are now saying 'You know what, I think we need to attack back,'" said Carlos Avila, coordinator of the Immigrants Public Advocacy Coalition of Trenton. "And this (a boycott) is the best way we can do it."

The rumors began about 10 days ago, shortly after Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff announced an effort to crack down on illegal immigrants and their employers.

The announcement coincided with raids by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement that rounded up 1,187 illegal immigrants employed by IFCO Systems, a Houston pallet company. The arrests included 30 employees at the company's Burlington location.

While nearly all initiatives outlined by Chertoff at the news conference already had been in place, his tough talk sparked tabloid headlines and warnings in Hispanic media that a massive new crackdown might be coming.

Soon, rumors were flying around the country.

Callers to The Star-Ledger reported hundreds of illegal immigrants being arrested at a ShopRite in Middlesex County, helicopters rounding up illegal immigrants in Freehold, men in green uniforms breaking into homes and dragging women by their hair in Plainfield. Immigrants in Newark said they were afraid to even take a city bus after hearing immigration agents had staked out Penn Station.

Immigrants and immigrant aid workers also reported raids in Flemington, Elizabeth, Jersey City, West New York, Trenton and New Brunswick.

None was true.

"Nothing at all was done in Newark, New Brunswick, Perth Amboy," said Tom Manifase, deputy special agent in charge of the Newark division of Immigration and Customs Enforcement. "That's totally false. It has nothing to do with us. It's a wild rumor."

DISBELIEF IN DENIALS
Still, many in immigrant communities refused to believe the denials.

Many callers said they, or someone they knew, had personally witnessed the raids.

One e-mail, from Lily Levy Harhay, a Jersey City travel agent, was typical.

"This morning I got a phone call from a friend who was driving to his work and could not believe what was happening in front of his eyes," she wrote. "At a corner where immigrants (mostly Hispanic) wait to be picked up for a daily job, six big police vans/trucks were picking them up and taking them to jail."

Reached by phone two days later, her friend Carlos Guevara, who told her about the sweep, explained what he had seen.

Guevara said he was driving along Paterson Plank Road in Jersey City when he became stuck in traffic behind two police cars and two vans.

"I asked somebody on the street what was happening and he said immigration was cleaning out the whole area," he said. "So yeah, I guess that's what it was."

Much of what people believed were immigration raids was another agency conducting routine business. In Freehold, word of helicopters and buses rounding up illegal immigrants turned out to be a routine evacuation drill being conducted by the Monmouth County Sheriff's Office.

In New Brunswick, immigrant advocates said routine roadside inspections of worker vans by the Department of Transportation were mistaken for immigration sweeps.

Pepe Mejia, owner of La Herencia Ecuatoriana, said even Newark police officers walking the beat struck fear into his customers.

"There were a couple of guys in here looking at CDs and they saw an officer outside and just ran out of the store," said Mejia, who estimates 80 percent of his customers are undocumented.

'PEOPLE ARE TERRIFIED'
Amy Gottlieb, director of the American Friends Service Committee in Newark, said some of her clients canceled appointments for fear immigrant agents were lurking in the streets.

"People are terrified," she said. "One client canceled an appointment because he saw a white van at the end of their street. We got calls from schools about our people not showing up to English as a second language classes."

Gottlieb said she is still not convinced the stories are all made up and also believes the instigators are seeking to prevent people from protesting.

"I hope people recognize they still have a right to demonstrate and rally, that they have a right to be part of a movement," she said. "The intent is to quell voices, but I'm hopeful people will not be entirely chilled."

But Cesar Ruiz, a bakery worker from Newark, and two of his friends said an even bigger fear is going to keep them away from today's rally -- the fear of losing their jobs.

"I asked my boss, and he said no, that if I didn't go to work, I'd lose my job," Ruiz said. "So I'm going to work."

 

[BBond]

Regarding the prevailing wages for union and skilled labor. I worked several union and non-union jobs as an electrician, construction worker, transportation worker, and others over my career. I also worked in management for many years. I can tell you first hand that both union and non-union wages have markedly DECLINED since the 70's and 80's in real terms and I believe that the ILLEGAL immigrant work force that has been allowed to invade America is largely to blame.

The notion that Americans don't want these types of jobs any more is insulting and ridiculous. The truth is, Americans want these jobs but they want them at decent pay, the kind of pay that Dahunan and Zebo mentioned. When a worker could earn enough to raise a family, buy a home, put kids through college, purchase a new car.

ILLEGAL immigrants are forcing wages down and stressing an already stressed social service system. That was the plan from the start. What did employers do before organized labor forced them to stop? They hired scab labor to displace anyone who complained, anyone who demanded decent wages and benefits, anyone who demanded good working conditions. These ILLEGALS are the equivalent of the scab labor that employers used to keep labor under control.

If you want to see America continue on the downward spiral it's on for most working people all you need do is nothing. Just keep allowing ILLEGAL immigrants to flow across our borders, displace American workers, and leech off of our medical and social services.

The day will come when the employers, politicians, and ILLEGALS are telling Americans what will be in our own nation -- if that day isn't here already.

Like I said before, THANK GOD I'M RETIRED!

 

[lozina]

Just wondering if the illegals plan on boycotting the roads too? Would be nice to not have to fear un-insured drivers for at least one day...

Also, will the illegals be boycotting the free healthcare provided by hospitals? I imagine they should be protesting that too, since it's so 'racist' to them.

edit: oh and dont forget to boycott welfare or disability or any other free social service the illegals have somehow enrolled themselves into using fraudulent documents

 

[piasabird]

I think it is hard for some cities like Los Angeles or wherever they hire all these illegal Aliens to realize there are areas in the US where we dont hire a lot of illegal aliens. They have become so jaded and depend on illegal labor so much that they have brainwashed themselves. Why not just change the American Flag to the Mexican Flag?

 

[Steeplerot]

Deported? Why? Becasue they stand up for their right for freedom and oppurtunity?

Naah, If anyone, it should be the lazy midddle class "americans" that should look at what is happening today and learn a lesson in how to be a good american who fights for what he believes in.
Instead of scapegoating whoever some blowhard tells them in at fault.


Evil evil invaders! oooga booga! Get a life wankers, they show far more balls then you apathetic weenies who call themselves "legit" when was the last time YOU fought for anything, you all can't even get your sh1t together to fight bush, you other allies are the ones who elect bush, then of course there are your firneds like the klansmen and KKK who are spooging over themselves as you all sound like mini-dictators more by the day.

What a joke.

Sure the immigrants make a few problems, but the lions share of them are ours, no matter how easy it seems to pass it off on poor people.