A crossroad in human evolution

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Somewhere I seem to remember a quote from Einstein to the effect that our technological development has outstripped our emotional maturity. I can't find it, if so, but I did find this by him, which expresses a similar idea assuming that out humanity is something we don't reach to our potential:

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity."

I thought of this because I have been thinking about the drag on social evolution imposed on us by the conservative mind set, the disinterest in and even fear of novelty and change.

If you read Kurzweil and his theory of coming singularity you will have been presented that the rate of change is accelerating exponentially.

I want to posit a theory that the conservative mind set and the rate of societal change are creating an impending crisis, one that even liberals will be challenged by.

Over the course of human history our cultural evolution, punctuated and at time regressive as it may be, has changed very slowly. Just one example is how long it had taken to change race relations nationally. Still a work in progress, as I see it.

As the rate of the accumulation of information and knowledge doubles more and more rapidly, the capacity to adapt to it becomes more and more pressing.

It is no wonder, I think, that the conservative brains among us as a result are starting to show signs of cracking. They can't stop or slow down the rate of change and they are becoming more and more terrified of an unknown novel future as a result. They have begun to throw themselves under the bus in an attempt to stop it via carnage. And the rate of change has become so rapid that folk who used to be moderately liberal are also feeling the stress.

But the technological advances that result from change bring with them tremendous economic benefits and in many ways increased quality of life, and conservative reaction increasingly threatens it. The conservatives among us are becoming increasingly anti-science and anti-intellectual.

If this is a reasonable explanation of the threat we face from our reluctance to evolve socially to change, what can be done about it.

Is there any way we can provide any sense that the future might be safe? How do you see the future. The situation I have presented here is that if the conservative mind set, the demand for stasis prevails, it will greatly decrease our capacity to deal with what the future will without any doubt bring. The thing that I can also see is another thing Einstein said. He didn't know what weapons world war 111 would be fought with but the one after would be fought with sticks and stones. That might just be a conservatives dream.
 

Pray To Jesus

Diamond Member
Mar 14, 2011
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The thing that I can also see is another thing Einstein said. He didn't know what weapons world war 111 would be fought with but the one after would be fought with sticks and stones. That might just be a conservatives dream.



World War One Hundred Eleven huh? I'll take it.
 
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moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
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I agree with the OP, but I am more optimistic regarding certain mindsets slowing progress to a dangerous level. Its true that many are anti science and anti progress, and that sucks, but this progress can't be stopped. We are entering a new era every decade and the time span gets shorter and shorter. Progress haters can only hold on to the old world for so long, and they will stretch and stretch until finally, they snap and let the rest of us finally go on unhindered into a world of unapologetic advancement and progress.

EDIT: I would not discount an evolutionary split taking place, similar to the one where we branched off from the common ancestor we share with chimps. There was the common ancestor, now there are humans and chimps. In the future, there will be humanity+, and then you'll have the same old humanity along side us, refusing to embrace science and progress.
 
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Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
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Have you seen the cost of this so-called change and progress? $17,300,000,000,000
 

Pray To Jesus

Diamond Member
Mar 14, 2011
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I agree with the OP, but I am more optimistic regarding certain mindsets slowing progress to a dangerous level. Its true that many are anti science and anti progress, and that sucks, but this progress can't be stopped. We are entering a new era every decade and the time span gets shorter and shorter. Progress haters can only hold on to the old world for so long, and they will stretch and stretch until finally, they snap and let the rest of us finally go on unhindered into a world of unapologetic advancement and progress.

EDIT: I would not discount an evolutionary split taking place, similar to the one where we branched off from the common ancestor we share with chimps. There was the common ancestor, now there are humans and chimps. In the future, there will be humanity+, and then you'll have the same old humanity along side us, refusing to embrace science and progress.

Oooo like in X-Men?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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I agree with the OP, but I am more optimistic regarding certain mindsets slowing progress to a dangerous level. Its true that many are anti science and anti progress, and that sucks, but this progress can't be stopped. We are entering a new era every decade and the time span gets shorter and shorter. Progress haters can only hold on to the old world for so long, and they will stretch and stretch until finally, they snap and let the rest of us finally go on unhindered into a world of unapologetic advancement and progress.

EDIT: I would not discount an evolutionary split taking place, similar to the one where we branched off from the common ancestor we share with chimps. There was the common ancestor, now there are humans and chimps. In the future, there will be humanity+, and then you'll have the same old humanity along side us, refusing to embrace science and progress.

Questions that come to mind:

In the middle ages there were Renaissance men who were capable of mastery in numerous fields. Today fields of knowledge have been subdivided and subdivided such that a Doctorate confers specialization in minute particulars.

Does the knowledge continue to accelerate to the point that everybody knows almost nothing about anything and collapse under out own complexity, or does the rate of change stop when human limits to cope are reached.

According to the Singularity folk, the point at which human limits are reached is the point where intelligence knowledge and their management become functions of intelligent machines. And off we go from there.......

But this is rather dependent on how great the paranoia of change is. There is a tendency, if one can see it, for the human being to sabotage everything rather that face who he is. There is an unconscious will that the traumatized children have to inflict their trauma on others when they become adults. it is this emotional backwardness that resists change because we are powerfully motivated to keep it repressed from conscious awareness.

Have you seen the film Forbidden Planet? In this film the Krell build a machine that can create anything they imagine and it destroys their civilization by creating the Monster of the Id.

I am glad you are optimistic, but for me a part of being optimistic is facing reality as it really is. For me that will take a willingness to face the psychological truth that do actually exist. I don't think what I am saying here is fear but the opposite. It was terror that I had to face to see these things. It is the terrified, in my opinion, who don't want to see them. The truth doesn't destroy confidence that there's hope. It just changes the direction that hope lies in. It is this motivation we have not to know ourselves that is the genuine stumbling block we face in our evolution. This is how I see it.
 

BUnit1701

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May 1, 2013
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I may regret this later, but Moonies 'conservative brain defect' actually makes sense if you think about it, but not in the way he says.

Consider for a moment that the status quo for the entirety of human history has been for humans to be subservient to a ruler. Only here in the US for the last ~200 years has the condition of freedom and self-determination has been allowed to exist. Consider conservatives as those interested in conserving this freedom. Consider liberals those interested in 'freeing us' from this 'unnatural condition'. If the above holds true, it would seem our 'brain defect' is actually the evolution Moonie so desperately wants.
 

Moonbeam

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Nov 24, 1999
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Yet another thread blaming all the world's ills on the conservative mindset. Too bad progressives/liberals place so many restraints/regulations that hold back innovation.

I know, and especially sad because it is in culinary evolution that mankind's hope for future lies.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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I may regret this later, but Moonies 'conservative brain defect' actually makes sense if you think about it, but not in the way he says.

Consider for a moment that the status quo for the entirety of human history has been for humans to be subservient to a ruler. Only here in the US for the last ~200 years has the condition of freedom and self-determination has been allowed to exist. Consider conservatives as those interested in conserving this freedom. Consider liberals those interested in 'freeing us' from this 'unnatural condition'. If the above holds true, it would seem our 'brain defect' is actually the evolution Moonie so desperately wants.

Agreed.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
I may regret this later, but Moonies 'conservative brain defect' actually makes sense if you think about it, but not in the way he says.

Consider for a moment that the status quo for the entirety of human history has been for humans to be subservient to a ruler. Only here in the US for the last ~200 years has the condition of freedom and self-determination has been allowed to exist. Consider conservatives as those interested in conserving this freedom. Consider liberals those interested in 'freeing us' from this 'unnatural condition'. If the above holds true, it would seem our 'brain defect' is actually the evolution Moonie so desperately wants.

So in other words the conservative brain defect is what's required to attain the evolution Moonbeam longs for so badly.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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Ah...back to the good ol' days of sticks and stones...just might be the conservatives dream. If that doesn't speak volumes, I don't know what does.

Moonie, I'm beginning to worry about you. Poetic license or do you actually believe your condescending hyperbole?
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,731
3,440
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Questions that come to mind:

In the middle ages there were Renaissance men who were capable of mastery in numerous fields. Today fields of knowledge have been subdivided and subdivided such that a Doctorate confers specialization in minute particulars.

Does the knowledge continue to accelerate to the point that everybody knows almost nothing about anything and collapse under out own complexity, or does the rate of change stop when human limits to cope are reached.

According to the Singularity folk, the point at which human limits are reached is the point where intelligence knowledge and their management become functions of intelligent machines. And off we go from there.......

But this is rather dependent on how great the paranoia of change is. There is a tendency, if one can see it, for the human being to sabotage everything rather that face who he is. There is an unconscious will that the traumatized children have to inflict their trauma on others when they become adults. it is this emotional backwardness that resists change because we are powerfully motivated to keep it repressed from conscious awareness.

Have you seen the film Forbidden Planet? In this film the Krell build a machine that can create anything they imagine and it destroys their civilization by creating the Monster of the Id.

I am glad you are optimistic, but for me a part of being optimistic is facing reality as it really is. For me that will take a willingness to face the psychological truth that do actually exist. I don't think what I am saying here is fear but the opposite. It was terror that I had to face to see these things. It is the terrified, in my opinion, who don't want to see them. The truth doesn't destroy confidence that there's hope. It just changes the direction that hope lies in. It is this motivation we have not to know ourselves that is the genuine stumbling block we face in our evolution. This is how I see it.

Its certainly possible that my degree of optimism is misplaced or naïve. We may have to go through hell to get to heaven, but I am convinced that we will get there and I think that sums up my optimism. I don't think we will self destruct, and to clarify, when I say "we" I don't necessarily mean the state of humanity as it is now. If we are replaced with something better, then so be it. After all, how many things have been replaced with us? That's not seen as bad, is it?
The film sounds great and I hope its on Netflix, because I'm in the mood for such a film. I can't get enough stimulation on such topics. My mind is child like in that its like a sponge. I appreciate the thread.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
I may regret this later, but Moonies 'conservative brain defect' actually makes sense if you think about it, but not in the way he says.

Consider for a moment that the status quo for the entirety of human history has been for humans to be subservient to a ruler. Only here in the US for the last ~200 years has the condition of freedom and self-determination has been allowed to exist. Consider conservatives as those interested in conserving this freedom. Consider liberals those interested in 'freeing us' from this 'unnatural condition'. If the above holds true, it would seem our 'brain defect' is actually the evolution Moonie so desperately wants.


He just made you look like a fool and you agreed.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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He just made you look like a fool and you agreed.

Can you see how much you are afraid you will be shown to be a fool? I am a fool. My brain is a pathetic thing. I forget things, I get lost in cities, I make mental mistakes, I don't read too good, better than you by the way. Don't be offended. I am a terrible mess of a being who thinks at times he conscious.

Relax. Don't take yourself so seriously. I won't die if I look like a fool.

But just look what he said..... I would, in my opinion, have to be a fool to disagree. He laid out a string of ideas that I had to agree with because he laid them out is such a way that they would have to be true if they were true. Wouldn't you have to say that black is white IF black IS white.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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No, you just have too much self hate to see what Moonbeam actually desires. :p

If you have been following my take on the conservative brain defect you will have read that I define it as a defect in those conditions only where its evolutionary superiority over what would in such circumstances be a liberal would be brain defective. This is the situation where a group faces an external threat from some other group. In such cased the group loyalty and blind allegiance to the group, the instantaneous gut reaction to threat and the rest of conservative brain function, is superior to the well on the one hand and on the other contemplative time consuming deep level reasoning that are the forte of liberals. It is a brain defect in the present circumstances only because conservatives have defectively identified liberals as an external threat instead of a vital and more rationally balanced of the American team. They have demonized an aspect of their own body and I sometimes demonize them to reflect back to them the reaction they will cause if they continue. If one team destroys the league by destroying the other team, the country will lose. At this time, it is conservatives that are out to destroy liberals because that's how their brains works without external threat.
 

BUnit1701

Senior member
May 1, 2013
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If you have been following my take on the conservative brain defect you will have read that I define it as a defect in those conditions only where its evolutionary superiority over what would in such circumstances be a liberal would be brain defective. This is the situation where a group faces an external threat from some other group. In such cased the group loyalty and blind allegiance to the group, the instantaneous gut reaction to threat and the rest of conservative brain function, is superior to the well on the one hand and on the other contemplative time consuming deep level reasoning that are the forte of liberals. It is a brain defect in the present circumstances only because conservatives have defectively identified liberals as an external threat instead of a vital and more rationally balanced of the American team. They have demonized an aspect of their own body and I sometimes demonize them to reflect back to them the reaction they will cause if they continue. If one team destroys the league by destroying the other team, the country will lose. At this time, it is conservatives that are out to destroy liberals because that's how their brains works without external threat.

But if one takes a step back, one quickly realizes that neither conservatives or liberals (in the general population) are making these decisions. The puppet masters at the top need both groups at each other's throats so they can run away with all the fucking money.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Its certainly possible that my degree of optimism is misplaced or naïve. We may have to go through hell to get to heaven, but I am convinced that we will get there and I think that sums up my optimism. I don't think we will self destruct, and to clarify, when I say "we" I don't necessarily mean the state of humanity as it is now. If we are replaced with something better, then so be it. After all, how many things have been replaced with us? That's not seen as bad, is it?
The film sounds great and I hope its on Netflix, because I'm in the mood for such a film. I can't get enough stimulation on such topics. My mind is child like in that its like a sponge. I appreciate the thread.

I am convinced that at core we are all perfect but that we are also all infected by self hate. This means that while I am certain we can win it doesn't mean we will. I believe we will win if we see who the enemy really is so here I am posting what I believe.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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But if one takes a step back, one quickly realizes that neither conservatives or liberals (in the general population) are making these decisions. The puppet masters at the top need both groups at each other's throats so they can run away with all the fucking money.

These are the spiritually dead, the cold and cynical, those who as children were completely obliterated and are motivated by cold self interest and hate. Some may not even be human having no capacity for empathy. My opinion anyway. Regardless, the reason people can be led is because their the faith in themselves that should be natural has been replaced by faith in the reputation they assume they acquire by being members of a group. Slaves can free themselves if they don't see their chains. The place to focus attention, in my opinion, is on the chains and not the slave holders. Get rid of the chains and the other problem will take care of itself. We still have prisons with real bars in them.