A case for religion, and against AA.

[sandorski]

If you in fact do agree she consented, then why did you post an obvious falsehood? I guess I don't understand the fascination with the idea that some atheists would love to have had Mary raped. She very clearly consented.

The Bible says she consented. I don't think god raped her, simply because there doesn't seem to be a god in the first place. Until a god can be shown to exist, if there's any truth to her story it has to be for some natural(Sex) reason.

 

[ThinClient]

If you in fact do agree she consented, then why did you post an obvious falsehood? I guess I don't understand the fascination with the idea that some atheists would love to have had Mary raped. She very clearly consented.

What's more likely? The natural order of things was suspended and the positive claim that god exists even though no evidence exists to prove it, or that a Jewish slut told a lie?

 

[Retro Rob]

Because it gets ignored: the God of the Christian bible is a monster.

"Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass." (I Samuel 15:2-3)

Yup. Infants need to be destroyed... because... an all-powerful god fears them? Or is there some other reason?


EDIT: And that doesn't even get into the part where God commands that people shall not murder. What is it when someone kills a baby? I'm pretty sure it can only be called murder... but maybe a lawyer can chime in with an alternative answer.

So which is it with this god: don't murder anyone; or murder when I tell you to murder?

Yes, God is a monster, we worship a murdering monstrous deity. Get some new material, as you've rehashed the same point you harped on last August.

Tell me something I don't know.

 

[sandorski]

Yes, God is a monster, we worship a murdering monstrous deity. Get some new material, as you've rehashed the same point you harped on last August.

Tell me something I don't know.

Indeed it is or would be if it existed.

 

[dphantom]

What's more likely? The natural order of things was suspended and the positive claim that god exists even though no evidence exists to prove it, or that a Jewish slut told a lie?

you do fear Christianity. Do you hold the same fear of Islam? Or Judaism? Or Hinduism? Your anger is a reflection of the fear inside you. Why is that?

 

[Retro Rob]

Indeed it is or would be if it existed.

Agreed, it would be.

Next...

 

[JEDIYoda]

At some level you must realize that your statements are inconsistent. If god has really given each of us "everything necessary" to believe in him, then we all would be believers. That "everything necessary" would by definition include whatever was needed to overcome any personal reasons for rejection (whatever you think those might be).

The key is that God really has given humanity everything necessary to believe in him.
But at the same time God has also given you a freewill to believe what you wish to believe.
Just like the 2 thieves on the cross. One accepted and the other rejected.

God may not have given each and every individual what that individual says they need to believe in him.
Yet God has given mankind as a whole what is required....

 

[JEDIYoda]

What's more likely? The natural order of things was suspended and the positive claim that god exists even though no evidence exists to prove it, or that a Jewish slut told a lie?

That's is what is amazing about most atheists in general...when confronted with the truth like dphantom pointed out that consent was involved, you cower behind other Atheist talking points and if you are all intellectual and all.....WHAT IS MORE LIKELY?? bla bla bla bala..... That was not a very smart thing to say...lol

 

[Exophase]

she did quite clearly

She was informed she'd be impregnated and she didn't protest it. I kind of feel like being told that the most powerful being in the universe insists on it adds an element of duress. At any rate, the account doesn't say that Mary was asked. But to be fair, Mary seemed pretty happy about it, even singing a song to celebrate.

What's more likely? The natural order of things was suspended and the positive claim that god exists even though no evidence exists to prove it, or that a Jewish slut told a lie?

Or the virgin birth stories were added after to the mythology of Jesus's character in order to further establish his divinity.

If a Jewish woman back then made that claim I doubt anyone would take her seriously. Matthew 1:18-24 even addresses this, where an angel has to tell Joseph that God impregnated Mary to stop him from divorcing her.

 

[OverVolt]

At some level you must realize that your statements are inconsistent. If god has really given each of us "everything necessary" to believe in him, then we all would be believers.

..aaaaand this is where Atheists miss the understanding-human-nature boat.

 

[sandorski]

..aaaaand this is where Atheists miss the understanding-human-nature boat.

No. Others, allegedly, got burning bushes, beams of light from the sky, sticks turning into snakes. I haven't seen anything like that and, apparently, that is fully within this gods ability. So if it really wants to reach me, it can. If it hasn't, all I can conclude is that it is just not as interested as y'all are stating, if it existed.

 

[AViking]

I'm kinda curious but how often do any of you meet people with the opposing view in actual real life?

I haven't met a super religious person in years and it's a refreshing change of pace but even when I lived in the US I almost never met any really religious people either. The reason being is that once they started spouting out dogma I had no interest in being around them again.

It seems to me that either the super religious people in this thread are trolling or over exaggerating or you're very isolated from the general population. However then I see statistics where 48% of Americans don't believe in evolution and 1/3 think the sun revolves around the Earth and wonder if I'm the one living in a bubble when I'm in the US.

Is it just that in real life you would never blow all this smoke at someone?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Another take on this -- I'm kinda curious but how often do any of supposed "Atheists" meet people with the opposing view in actual real life?

I haven't met a super duper Atheist person in years and it's a refreshing change of pace but even when I lived in the US I almost never met any really down home super elite Atheist people either. The reason being is that once they started spouting out Atheist talking points and not really being interested in a sincere discussion I have no interest in being around them.

It seems to me that either the super zealous Atheist people in this thread are trolling or over exaggerating or are very isolated from the general population. However then I see statistics where 52% of Americans believe in evolution and 2/3 think the Earth revolves around the sun and wonder if the atheists are the ones living in a bubble?

Is it just that in real life you would never blow all this smoke at someone?

 

[JEDIYoda]

No. Others, allegedly, got burning bushes, beams of light from the sky, sticks turning into snakes. I haven't seen anything like that and, apparently, that is fully within this gods ability. So if it really wants to reach me, it can. If it hasn't, all I can conclude is that it is just not as interested as y'all are stating, if it existed.

The key is that God really has given humanity everything necessary to believe in him.
But at the same time God has also given you a freewill to believe what you wish to believe.
Just like the 2 thieves on the cross. One accepted and the other rejected.

God may not have given each and every individual what that individual says they need to believe in him.
Yet God has given mankind as a whole what is required....

 

[sandorski]

The key is that God really has given humanity everything necessary to believe in him.
But at the same time God has also given you a freewill to believe what you wish to believe.
Just like the 2 thieves on the cross. One accepted and the other rejected.

God may not have given each and every individual what that individual says they need to believe in him.
Yet God has given mankind as a whole what is required....

Apparently not.

 

[soulcougher73]

Another take on this -- I'm kinda curious but how often do any of supposed "Atheists" meet people with the opposing view in actual real life?

I haven't met a super duper Atheist person in years and it's a refreshing change of pace but even when I lived in the US I almost never met any really down home super elite Atheist people either. The reason being is that once they started spouting out Atheist talking points and not really being interested in a sincere discussion I have no interest in being around them.

It seems to me that either the super zealous Atheist people in this thread are trolling or over exaggerating or are very isolated from the general population. However then I see statistics where 52% of Americans believe in evolution and 2/3 think the Earth revolves around the sun and wonder if the atheists are the ones living in a bubble?

Is it just that in real life you would never blow all this smoke at someone?

Did you mean to make yourself look this stupid or was it purely an accident? I dont think you realized you shot yourself in the foot lol

 

[JEDIYoda]

Apparently not.

that's OK!! You believe as you wish......

Did you mean to make yourself look this stupid or was it purely an accident? I dont think you realized you shot yourself in the foot lol

um...ok....

 

[Agent11]

There is a prophecy that Jehovah's Witnesses believe in. It states that in the time of the end there will be a great tribulation, and that the governments of the world will rise up against religion, destroying it except for the true religion, which will be the last one. When the rulers of the world finally turn on them is when Armageddon is supposed to happen. I know my parents thought they saw evidence of such prophesy coming to pass. In my opinion it is the prophesy that gives the truly religious quite a lot of faith in their beliefs. I'm pretty sure all Christian sects have them.

 

[jackstar7]

Yes, God is a monster, we worship a murdering monstrous deity. Get some new material, as you've rehashed the same point you harped on last August.

Tell me something I don't know.

1) I noticed some new faces.
2) You're not my sole audience. But I like the arrogance!

 

[jackstar7]

Another take on this -- I'm kinda curious but how often do any of supposed "Atheists" meet people with the opposing view in actual real life?

I haven't met a super duper Atheist person in years and it's a refreshing change of pace but even when I lived in the US I almost never met any really down home super elite Atheist people either. The reason being is that once they started spouting out Atheist talking points and not really being interested in a sincere discussion I have no interest in being around them.

It seems to me that either the super zealous Atheist people in this thread are trolling or over exaggerating or are very isolated from the general population. However then I see statistics where 52% of Americans believe in evolution and 2/3 think the Earth revolves around the sun and wonder if the atheists are the ones living in a bubble?

Is it just that in real life you would never blow all this smoke at someone?

Most atheists I know don't feel the need to talk about it. Just like we don't spend much time talking about the diseases we don't have.

Have you met more people who openly espouse their belief or non-belief? I think that's the starting point you might want to work from. Atheists are not in a bubble... we're surrounded by believers. We can't seem to escape them.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

..aaaaand this is where Atheists miss the understanding-human-nature boat.

You mean that "human nature" that was also allegedly supplied to us when we were allegedly created?

 

[PowerEngineer]

..aaaaand this is where Atheists miss the understanding-human-nature boat.

It's more accurate to say: ..aaaaand this is where non-believers are unwilling to leap into the blind-faith boat.

It's not that we don't understand faith (or human nature), it's that we don't agree with you that it's a good basis upon which to believe and act on.

 

[SlowSpyder]

you do fear Christianity. Do you hold the same fear of Islam? Or Judaism? Or Hinduism? Your anger is a reflection of the fear inside you. Why is that?

I know you weren't directing your questions towards me. But, I have seen the brainwashing caused by being 'born again' and it is scary. Don't forget how christians acted when they actually had power (before science, reason, and logic pushed back). Christianity had it's time in the sun, it turned out to be just as unreal and at least as bloodthirsty as it's predecessors.

 

[dphantom]

I know you weren't directing your questions towards me. But, I have seen the brainwashing caused by being 'born again' and it is scary. Don't forget how christians acted when they actually had power (before science, reason, and logic pushed back). Christianity had it's time in the sun, it turned out to be just as unreal and at least as bloodthirsty as it's predecessors.

I've not met anyone brainwashed by being born again. Not sure why it would be scary unless that person has a perverted view of Christianity, similar to Islamist terrorist perhaps. That would be scary I suppose.

Otherwise, anyone I've met that has been "born again" seems pretty normal to me. Most have families, jobs, normal stuff.

 

[AViking]

I've not met anyone brainwashed by being born again. Not sure why it would be scary unless that person has a perverted view of Christianity, similar to Islamist terrorist perhaps. That would be scary I suppose.

Otherwise, anyone I've met that has been "born again" seems pretty normal to me. Most have families, jobs, normal stuff.

All the born again Christians I know were alcoholics or drug addicts. Sample size isn't that big but thought it was worth mentioning.