A case for religion, and against AA.

[ThinClient]

There is a lot of evidence from my perspective. A 1st hand witness account from an trustworthy authority is good evidence.

Confirmation bias and delusion are not evidences.

 

[ThinClient]

There is a fundamental problem with what you're saying here. If God has a plan, then he planned for Adam and Eve to sin, and planned for us to go to "hell".

Can't they then rightfully blame God for every bad thing, since he planned everything?

You're contradicting yourself by saying God knows what you will do, but what you're doing is "free will".

Exactly. You're FINALLY starting to get it.

 

[ThinClient]

Learn about freewill

Also listen to #5 for the answer to your question.

Free will isn't real and neuroscience professionals have already proven as much with real, actual, objective, measurable, observable, repeatable evidence.

 

[dphantom]

Free will isn't real and neuroscience professionals have already proven as much with real, actual, objective, measurable, observable, repeatable evidence.

Links to such evidence proving free will is not real?

 

[crashtestdummy]

Jesus answered, "It is said: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"

Why not? Putting things to the test is what I do for a living. Any other topic is fine, why is this one taboo?

Then why ask me for a measurable variable if you're going to find a way to explain them away?

You are actually trying to prove why prayer doesn't work, which is why I think this is one of those things you'd need to prove to yourself. I can't really convince you, especially if you reject the existence of God, which makes that prerequisite all the more important.

Not at all. What I propose above is no different from the kind of method I would use to test any other claim. It is not an undue amount of skepticism, it is merely standard procedure. I'm not setting what I think is an unreasonable goal, but it is one with a failure condition.

There are many aspect of divinity that are completely untestable, and I certainly cannot tell you that no God exists. If you want to propose to me that prayer is useful, though, give me a way to measure it. If prayer is "real" (in that God listens and answers in indefinable ways) but it is not useful, then there is no distinction between reality and unreality.

Edit: I should note that any such test, even if prayer failed it, would not result in a statement that "prayer does not work". Science, as mentioned before, doesn't bother with such absolutes. Rather, the study would conclude "there is no evidence to suggest that prayer provides the particular benefit we tested for." However, if you want to claim that it provides some benefit, it must pass one of these kinds of tests.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

Confirmation bias and delusion are not evidences.

More fictional truth claims that you can't prove is true. Who are you trying to convince that what you say is true? Me or yourself?

 

[Retro Rob]

Exactly. You're FINALLY starting to get it.

LOL God is described as being a God of justice, in the Bible anyway. There ain't nothing just about punishing someone for doing something he already knew would happen.

Has no plan for persons, as people leave Christianity everyday, come back, leave again etc.

I know this is a belief among the religious, but it makes God out as cruel and unjust...it doesn't help when they preach this like its gospel.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

Why not? Putting things to the test is what I do for a living. Any other topic is fine, why is this one taboo?

There are many aspect of divinity that are completely untestable, and I certainly cannot tell you that no God exists. If you want to propose to me that prayer is useful, though, give me a way to measure it. If prayer is "real" (in that God listens and answers in indefinable ways) but it is not useful, then there is no distinction between reality and unreality.

I thought it was an interesting quote.

Prayers work for me. 100% success rate. I always end my prayer by praying and affirming that God's will be done and not mine.

 

[dphantom]

Why not? Putting things to the test is what I do for a living. Any other topic is fine, why is this one taboo?

Probably one could say who are you to prove God exists? Doing so puts you (man) on a level at or above God. I see God's hand everyday all around me. I have faith Jesus is the Son of God come to show us a way to salvation. That is proof for me. I recognize it may not be enough or I may not be eloquent enough to convince non-believers.

 

[Retro Rob]

Why not? Putting things to the test is what I do for a living. Any other topic is fine, why is this one taboo?



Not at all. What I propose above is no different from the kind of method I would use to test any other claim. It is not an undue amount of skepticism, it is merely standard procedure. I'm not setting what I think is an unreasonable goal, but it is one with a failure condition.

There are many aspect of divinity that are completely untestable, and I certainly cannot tell you that no God exists. If you want to propose to me that prayer is useful, though, give me a way to measure it. If prayer is "real" (in that God listens and answers in indefinable ways) but it is not useful, then there is no distinction between reality and unreality.

You have a way to test it. Try it yourself -- it's the best test. If it doesn't work, then you have your answer.

 

[dphantom]

LOL God is described as being a God of justice, in the Bible anyway. There ain't nothing just about punishing someone for doing something he already knew would happen.

Has no plan for persons, as people leave Christianity everyday, come back, leave again etc.

I know this is a belief among the religious, but it makes God out as cruel and unjust...it doesn't help when they preach this like its gospel.

You really need to take a more in-depth look at what free will is and how that does not conflict with God's plans. There are several variations on this concept among Christian sects. But whether Calvinist, Lutheran, Catholic all can be studied for what it means.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally Posted by ThinClient -- Free will isn't real and neuroscience professionals have already proven as much with real, actual, objective, measurable, observable, repeatable evidence.

Links to such evidence proving free will is not real?

Didn`t you know he doesn`t have to provide links? After all, he`s an Atheist! They make up the rules as they go.....

 

[Pray To Jesus]

LOL God is described as being a God of justice, in the Bible anyway. There ain't nothing just about punishing someone for doing something he already knew would happen.

Has no plan for persons, as people leave Christianity everyday, come back, leave again etc.

I know this is a belief among the religious, but it makes God out as cruel and unjust...it doesn't help when they preach this like its gospel.

You got to listen to the series I linked. You will learn a lot about theology.

 

[ThinClient]

Links to such evidence proving free will is not real?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRIcbsRXQ0o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXTEmu-jUqA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCofmZlC72g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FanhvXO9Pk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZLyYq_QQ3g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq_tG5UJMs0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cf9eGUWGtyo

Watch from the top down.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

You really need to take a more in-depth look at what free will is and how that does not conflict with God's plans. There are several variations on this concept among Christian sects. But whether Calvinist, Lutheran, Catholic all can be studied for what it means.

It boils down to just two view point for salvation:

Semipelagianism vs. Augustinian

 

[ThinClient]

Didn`t you know he doesn`t have to provide links? After all, he`s an Atheist! They make up the rules as they go.....

This is a pointless, completely arbitrary, entirely false statement that no one here has ever claimed but you.

 

[Retro Rob]

You really need to take a more in-depth look at what free will is and how that does not conflict with God's plans. There are several variations on this concept among Christian sects. But whether Calvinist, Lutheran, Catholic all can be studied for what it means.

I'm just saying, if you're gonna say things are a part of Gods plan, you have to be prepared to answer questions like "was it Gods plan that my mom got cancer and suffered and died" or "was it Gods plan that all those kids (many of whom had Christian parents) was murdered at Sandy hook?"

Just saying that's a loaded statement, and those are legit questions.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRIcbsRXQ0o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXTEmu-jUqA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCofmZlC72g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FanhvXO9Pk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZLyYq_QQ3g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq_tG5UJMs0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cf9eGUWGtyo

Watch from the top down.

Did you watch that lecture I linked?

 

[ThinClient]

More fictional truth claims that you can't prove is true. Who are you trying to convince that what you say is true? Me or yourself?

Your experiences are nothing but fictional truth claims that you can't prove are true.

Do you even understand the concept of confirmation bias? Your post that I quoted right here strongly suggests that you have no fucking idea what confirmation bias even means or why it is relevant.

 

[ThinClient]

LOL God is described as being a God of justice, in the Bible anyway. There ain't nothing just about punishing someone for doing something he already knew would happen.

So why would god send anyone to hell? Why are there consequences for ANYTHING that man does?

Has no plan for persons, as people leave Christianity everyday, come back, leave again etc.

I know this is a belief among the religious, but it makes God out as cruel and unjust...it doesn't help when they preach this like its gospel.

Yet another glimpse into the logically flawed world of religion, specifically christianity.

Why do you cling to christianity when you know it's full of shit?

 

[ThinClient]

Did you watch that lecture I linked?

Yep.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

This is a pointless, completely arbitrary, entirely false statement that no one here has ever claimed but you.

You do the same thing all the time.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

Yep.

What do you think about how Jonathan Edwards characterized free will?

I will watch the Youtube videos you linked.

 

[ThinClient]

I'm just saying, if you're gonna say things are a part of Gods plan, you have to be prepared to answer questions like "was it Gods plan that my mom got cancer and suffered and died" or "was it Gods plan that all those kids (many of whom had Christian parents) was murdered at Sandy hook?"

Just saying that's a loaded statement, and those are legit questions.

So why would god allow Job's entire family to be murdered just to test Job's faith? Why would god allow such suffering? I know the answer is "well it doesn't matter because he got another family and got other shit back too" but that's no reason to cause someone to suffer on the level that Job suffered. "For the glory of god" is also another likely answer, but is a complete non-sequitur.

 

[ThinClient]

What do you think about how Jonathan Edwards characterized free will?

I will watch the Youtube videos you linked.

I think he's a delusional retard making all sorts of interpretation claims with zero evidence, just like you do about your own faith.