A case for religion, and against AA.

[Pray To Jesus]

As pointed out often, we know what Faith is. The problem is that many Theists don't seem to quite grasp what Faith means, even after reading Hebrews.

"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see," (Heb. 11:1).

Pretty straight forward definition. What are you confused about?

 

[sandorski]

"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see," (Heb. 11:1).

Pretty straight forward definition. What are you confused about?

Nothing. I have pointed out such things numerous times. The problem is that Certainty means nothing.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

Nothing. I have pointed out such things numerous times. The problem is that Certainty means nothing.

Certainty is perfect knowledge that has total security from error, or the mental state of being without doubt.

 

[soulcougher73]

Not to be taken literally. Jesus is showing the power of prayer and faith in God. God is in charge and He answers all of the faithful's prayers to advance His plan for creation.

Why would a follower of Jesus be afraid of death? It is by far a lot better than living this life.

I love how this is always the defense. Must be nice to be able to just blow off everything in life and remain ignorant with "not to be taken literally". Which basically mean, "it can mean whatever the fuck i want it to mean".

 

[soulcougher73]

Homosexuality is a sin. Lust is a sin. Lying is a sin. Laziness is a sin. A lot more of what we do are sins. The Law can only bring death. All are guilty in the eye of God. No one is innocent and we all deserve to go to Hell for sinning.

Humans are sinners. Therefore, we are not to judge others or condemn them because we think they are sinners.

It is wrong for a Christian to hate gays, transgender, atheists, Muslims, etc.

I don't like people because of their evil actions, but I do not hate.

I do not hate anyone because everyone is a sinner and need Jesus Christ for their salvation. I am also a sinner in need of salvation.

Christians are to forgive, no matter how hard it is to forgive.


That is what the Holy Spirit teaches me on judging others for sinning and the importance of forgiveness.

Sounds like a wonderful god. Where do i sign up?

 

[dphantom]

Sounds like a wonderful god. Where do i sign up?

within yourself. You can get guidance from a pastor, priest, lay friends if needed. Even us in this discussion would all willingly help you.

 

[soulcougher73]

within yourself. You can get guidance from a pastor, priest, lay friends if needed. Even us in this discussion would all willingly help you.

I really hope you realize i was be facitious. That sounds like a horrible god. Creating us with free will but judging us with sin right out the gate. Sounds like some sick and twisted crap that noone should look up to let alone worship.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

I love how this is always the defense. Must be nice to be able to just blow off everything in life and remain ignorant with "not to be taken literally". Which basically mean, "it can mean whatever the fuck i want it to mean".

It means "not to be taken literally".

 

[soulcougher73]

It means "not to be taken literally".

You dont say.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

What's amusing? Explain step by step and maybe you'll see your mistake.

I haven't made a mistake.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

I haven't made a mistake.

Show me your thought process step by step.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

You dont say.

Repetition is the key to learning.

 

[ThinClient]

Not to be taken literally. Jesus is showing the power of prayer and faith in God. God is in charge and He answers all of the faithful's prayers to advance His plan for creation.

Why would a follower of Jesus be afraid of death? It is by far a lot better than living this life.

Why would an atheist be afraid of death? Were you afraid before you were born? it's silliness.

Funny thing you mention answering prayers.

Imagine how that German woman must have prayed when her father had her locked in the basement for 30 years. Imagine how she must have begged god and pleaded while she got pregnant and watched her sisters get pregnant and get raped every single day.

God ignored her because she wasn't faithful enough or something? Your whole "god answers prayers" is ridiculous.

 

[ThinClient]

Repetition is the key to learning.

Performing the same action repeatedly expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

Praying repeatedly expecting something to happen when nothing ever has from prayer is insane.

 

[ThinClient]

I love how this is always the defense. Must be nice to be able to just blow off everything in life and remain ignorant with "not to be taken literally". Which basically mean, "it can mean whatever the fuck i want it to mean".

Yep! It's called "interpretation" and it's the deceitful crux behind reading the Bible. Don't agree with what's right there in plain text on the page? Lucky for you, interpretation steps in and lets you bend and twist and entirely fabricate a new meaning!"

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Show me your thought process step by step.

What? My statement is just about as direct as it could be. If you think there is a mistake, then show it. Show me YOUR "thought process step by step."

 

[Retro Rob]

Why would an atheist be afraid of death? Were you afraid before you were born? it's silliness.

Funny thing you mention answering prayers.

Imagine how that German woman must have prayed when her father had her locked in the basement for 30 years. Imagine how she must have begged god and pleaded while she got pregnant and watched her sisters get pregnant and get raped every single day.

God ignored her because she wasn't faithful enough or something? Your whole "god answers prayers" is ridiculous.

Well, God isn't obligated to answer all prayers no more than you're obligated to fulfill every request made of you, and her father is the blame for her suffering, not God not answering prayers.

Prayers are answered in various ways, not through acts of "deliverance" all of the time. Sometimes you're given strength to deal with situations, other times you're delivered. It up to God how he answers prayers, not how you think they should be answered.

 

[dphantom]

Yep! It's called "interpretation" and it's the deceitful crux behind reading the Bible. Don't agree with what's right there in plain text on the page? Lucky for you, interpretation steps in and lets you bend and twist and entirely fabricate a new meaning!"

We interpret many works to gain an understanding of what the author was trying to get at.

In the various books of the Bible, Jesus and others use allegory or parables to describe lessons. Other authors often do the same in their written works. George Orwell's Animal Farm is an allegory for example.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

What? My statement is just about as direct as it could be. If you think there is a mistake, then show it. Show me YOUR "thought process step by step."

You weren't as direct as it could be. I want to be sure I understand your thinking.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

You weren't as direct as it could be. I want to be sure I understand your thinking.

If you aren't sure you understand my thinking then you have no basis for claiming that a mistake was made. In other words, you're just making it up. You're bearing false witness.

 

[Exophase]

I really hope you realize i was be facitious. That sounds like a horrible god. Creating us with free will but judging us with sin right out the gate. Sounds like some sick and twisted crap that noone should look up to let alone worship.

Although the judgement of things we can't help is worrisome, I'm more concerned about us being judged for the way we're born. And I wonder if this applies to other animals, who can also demonstrate homosexuality, lust, laziness, and even deceit. There's this idea that they're only like this because we started it, which is even more perplexing than the idea that we're like this because our parents were.

The ideas of eternal hell are also seem to be in a strange conflict with some of the other things the Bible says. Adam and Eve ate from the tree of life, which one would think was supposed to allow them to live indefinitely. Then they were banned from Eden for sinning (interestingly, from eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, implying they lost their ignorance and innocence regarding what sin was) and could no longer live forever. When the New Testament talks about the punishment for sin being death that seems consistent with this. Death is a pretty different concept from eternal life in hell.

Makes you wonder why God would be vindictive enough to prolong suffering of people who probably would prefer to stop existing, or somehow not capable enough..

 

[ThinClient]

Well, God isn't obligated to answer all prayers no more than you're obligated to fulfill every request made of you, and her father is the blame for her suffering, not God not answering prayers.

Prayers are answered in various ways, not through acts of "deliverance" all of the time. Sometimes you're given strength to deal with situations, other times you're delivered. It up to God how he answers prayers, not how you think they should be answered.

Oh, so god answers prayers, but only when he wants to or when it suits him?

So he is capricious and malevolent?

Okay.

 

[ThinClient]

We interpret many works to gain an understanding of what the author was trying to get at.

In the various books of the Bible, Jesus and others use allegory or parables to describe lessons. Other authors often do the same in their written works. George Orwell's Animal Farm is an allegory for example.

The entire Bible is allegory because there is no evidence to support the supernatural claims that the book of fairy tales makes.

 

[ThinClient]

Although the judgement of things we can't help is worrisome, I'm more concerned about us being judged for the way we're born. And I wonder if this applies to other animals, who can also demonstrate homosexuality, lust, laziness, and even deceit. There's this idea that they're only like this because we started it, which is even more perplexing than the idea that we're like this because our parents were.

The ideas of eternal hell are also seem to be in a strange conflict with some of the other things the Bible says. Adam and Eve ate from the tree of life, which one would think was supposed to allow them to live indefinitely. Then they were banned from Eden for sinning (interestingly, from eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, implying they lost their ignorance and innocence regarding what sin was) and could no longer live forever. When the New Testament talks about the punishment for sin being death that seems consistent with this. Death is a pretty different concept from eternal life in hell.

Makes you wonder why God would be vindictive enough to prolong suffering of people who probably would prefer to stop existing, or somehow not capable enough..

This is a great post.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

If you aren't sure you understand my thinking then you have no basis for claiming that a mistake was made. In other words, you're just making it up. You're bearing false witness.

You're definitely wrong. I just want to see how you think stuff through.