A case for religion, and against AA.

[sao123]

I have rejected no god, ever. I cannot reject that which I do not believe to exist.

Since faith is a fundamental requirement to commune with God...

A rejection of the concept of faith is a rejection of God himself.

 

[sandorski]

Since faith is a fundamental requirement to commune with God...

A rejection of the concept of faith is a rejection of God himself.

To know "God" requires the method of least likely to provide any information whatsoever.

Seems legit.

 

[sao123]

To know "God" requires the method of least likely to provide any information whatsoever.

Seems legit.

You have all the information you need. You have the historical account of the life of Jesus. We know that Jesus of Nazareth was a real person who lived and died. It is historically documented.

"If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is." John 14:7

Furthermore since you reject Jesus and his divinity, you also reject God.

"but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me." Luke 10:16

 

[sandorski]

You have all the information you need. You have the historical account of the life of Jesus. We know that Jesus of Nazareth was a real person who lived and died. It is historically documented.

"If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is." John 14:7

Furthermore since you reject Jesus and his divinity, you also reject God.

"but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me." Luke 10:16

No, neither I nor You have this. What we have is a collection of documents that claims to be about such a person. Claims which do not occur in Reality and only ever claimed when made within Fiction or Myth. The documents are not even consistent.

 

[dphantom]

No, neither I nor You have this. What we have is a collection of documents that claims to be about such a person. Claims which do not occur in Reality and only ever claimed when made within Fiction or Myth. The documents are not even consistent.

May I ask why you are so afraid of admitting Jesus in fact did live? Take out his Divinity, why do you reject historical documents that you would readily accept for any other historical person?

What would be wrong with admitting Jesus did live while rejecting what you consider to be myth and fiction about Him?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Religion makes good people think they are doing good things, when they are in fact doing bad things.

Discrimination is a prime example. Suicide bombing is another.

that's just plain BS......
Atheism makes good people think they are doing good, when in fact they are doing bad things....so now prove me wrong...

 

[sandorski]

May I ask why you are so afraid of admitting Jesus in fact did live? Take out his Divinity, why do you reject historical documents that you would readily accept for any other historical person?

What would be wrong with admitting Jesus did live while rejecting what you consider to be myth and fiction about Him?

Afraid of it? Not at all. Just pointing out that the claims of Christians are flimsy at best.

 

[dphantom]

Afraid of it? Not at all. Just pointing out that the claims of Christians are flimsy at best.

and non-Christians too. Why reject their accounts of Jesus?

 

[sandorski]

and non-Christians too. Why reject their accounts of Jesus?

Are non-Christians claiming Jesus is a god or performed Miracles for realz?

 

[dphantom]

you won't answer my question and I really do not understand. Leave out divinity as I said earlier. All I am asking is why do you9 not accept Jesus as a historical figure when given the same evidence from historical records you would acknowledge anyone else.

 

[Scotteq]

May I ask why you are so afraid of admitting Jesus in fact did live? Take out his Divinity, why do you reject historical documents that you would readily accept for any other historical person?

What would be wrong with admitting Jesus did live while rejecting what you consider to be myth and fiction about Him?

I don't reject the parables, or the stories, or the teachings. I don't deny the man lived. I don't deny the wisdom contained in the Bible. And the Torah. And the Koran. The Vedas... The Dhammapada...

What I have serious issues with is many, many centuries long list of depravities committed by "The Church", for "The Church", and at the behest of "The Church". And how so very many people of "The Church" feel their teachings don't count for any body not of their particular cultural/racial/social group.


And to be perfectly honest, I've felt myself closer to God sitting under a tree watching birds and deer, while listening to the wind on the grass than from reading (any) book. Highly Recommended Practice, in fact.


The Bible is fine. Organized Religion.... not so much.

 

[sandorski]

you won't answer my question and I really do not understand. Leave out divinity as I said earlier. All I am asking is why do you9 not accept Jesus as a historical figure when given the same evidence from historical records you would acknowledge anyone else.

Whether there was a historical figure is moot. There is simply no reason to accept what the Bible says of him.

 

[dphantom]

Whether there was a historical figure is moot. There is simply no reason to accept what the Bible says of him.

Then I have my answer. You are afraid to admit Jesus existed. Even if he was nothing more than in itinerant preacher built up into something else, the very fact you cannot accept Jesus as even a historical person means you know, without being able to admit it, that Jesus was real. By admitting His existence, you take the first step towards faith, something your atheism abhors. By burying your fear in absolute denial of His very existence, you put lie to your own beliefs.

Yes, you are a man of faith and belief. You can deny it no longer. I can only proay you come to accept that facet of your life.

(Romans 10:9-10) "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. {10} For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

 

[sandorski]

Then I have my answer. You are afraid to admit Jesus existed. Even if he was nothing more than in itinerant preacher built up into something else, the very fact you cannot accept Jesus as even a historical person means you know, without being able to admit it, that Jesus was real. By admitting His existence, you take the first step towards faith, something your atheism abhors. By burying your fear in absolute denial of His very existence, you put lie to your own beliefs.

Yes, you are a man of faith and belief. You can deny it no longer. I can only proay you come to accept that facet of your life.

(Romans 10:9-10) "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. {10} For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

What a load of crap.

Even if he did exist as an actual person, that doesn't give any credence to the bizarre claims made about him.

 

[ThinClient]

that's just plain BS......
Atheism makes good people think they are doing good, when in fact they are doing bad things....so now prove me wrong...

Circumcision. Child rape (catholic priests). Killing abortion doctors. Refusing medical treatment to your child in favor of praying away the malediction. Endorsing slavery, murder, and genocide including killing innocent women and children.

Are you really going to claim that it's bullshit? Of course it's not. It's spot on.

No one has killed anyone else in the name of atheism. No one.

 

[ThinClient]

What a load of crap.

Even if he did exist as an actual person, that doesn't give any credence to the bizarre claims made about him.

Yep. Prove his divinity.

 

[JD50]

What a load of crap.

Even if he did exist as an actual person, that doesn't give any credence to the bizarre claims made about him.

It's like the people that get excited about finding Noah's ark. Like the existence of a boat proves some worldwide flood and being able to pack 2 of every single living thing into a boat.

 

[sao123]

What a load of crap.

Even if he did exist as an actual person, that doesn't give any credence to the bizarre claims made about him.

if you accept his divinity, there is nothing bizarre about the claims.

 

[JD50]

if you accept his divinity, there is nothing bizarre about the claims.

The only way to prove that he is divine is by accepting the claims. Circular reasoning.

 

[sandorski]

if you accept his divinity, there is nothing bizarre about the claims.

Of course, now about the evidence?

 

[JEDIYoda]

No one has killed anyone else in the name of atheism. No one.

you actually can prove that statement?? I seriously doubt that you have proof....

 

[dphantom]

No one has killed anyone else in the name of atheism. No one.

Since you are insistent on having those who make a positive assertion provide the evidence to back up their assertion, please provide your evidence of the above statement.

 

[sandorski]

you actually can prove that statement?? I seriously doubt that you have proof....

Since you are insistent on having those who make a positive assertion provide the evidence to back up their assertion, please provide your evidence of the above statement.

He, IMO, overstated it. However, can you think of even one incident where killing was done in the Name of Atheism?

I can think of several incidents where killing was done in the Name of Theism.

 

[Retro Rob]

He, IMO, overstated it. However, can you think of even one incident where killing was done in the Name of Atheism?

I can think of several incidents where killing was done in the Name of Theism.

No one ever killed in the of name of "theism". Theism is the opposite of atheism, and is therefore harmless.

You add something fundamental (Christianity, Islam) and then you have killings.

 

[sandorski]

No one ever killed in the of name of "theism". Theism is the opposite of atheism, and is therefore harmless.

You add something fundamental (Christianity, Islam) and then you have killings.

aka, Theism