A case for religion, and against AA.

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WilliamM2

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2012
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PowerEngineer

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2001
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So to summarize…. :p

Posters who believe in a Christian god do so primarily on the basis of faith, often coupled to some personal divine inspiration. The willingness to believe that god exists makes it easy to accept accounts of godly miracles and other divine interventions (such as those in the bible) at face value. Supernatural events aren’t extraordinary; they’re actually “ordinary” in the sense that believers expect to find instances of god’s actions now and back through history. Going further, these “ordinary” supernatural events are taken as evidence (or “proof”) of god’s existence.

Some believers posting in this thread have previously acknowledged that experience/revelation and acceptance of biblical truth occur around the same time. Together these two pieces form a strong, logically consistent circle of belief that can’t be broken by worldly arguments.

Posters who do not believe in a Christian god generally withhold belief unless/until there is reason (i.e. facts/evidence) to believe. Having neither blind faith nor personal divine revelation, non-believers do not assume the existence of god and therefore aren’t nearly as willing to accept accounts of supernatural events. Supernatural events would be extraordinary (and require extraordinary evidence). The more mundane “natural” explanations (that include all natures of human frailties) are more in line with our understanding of how the world works and therefore more easily believed.

Non-believers by definition have not found enough reason to believe any of the thousands of supernatural beliefs espoused by sincere people around this world. Without Christian faith, the supernatural aspects of biblical accounts are simply not credible (and no more credible that similar claims by other believers). Arguments that further study of the bible will somehow erase its superficial inconsistencies and reveal its deeper unerring truths have no traction with someone without faith that the Christian god exists. Perhaps there could be an event that was so extraordinary that it required a supernatural explanation (which would obviate the need for faith), but it’d have to be something even more outlandish as the Seahawk Super Bowl victory.

What I’ve learned from this thread is that there are as many angry theists as angry atheists (and that you should all be a bit more agnostic). ;)
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,769
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The real truth is you have no real understanding of the Bible other than as any other book that you would read.....you have no interest in actually understanding the context of the verses that you throw out so blatantly!
Here is your answer...but I have no time to debate or try to answer your questions when any answer that I give you will pass off as being apologetic or more of that faith stuff.....
Peace to you!! We shall all know someday who is actually correct!!


The first five books of the Bible are full of stories of the conquest of Caanan. But one story that sometimes stands out in the minds of skeptics is the one found in Numbers 31, where God seemingly gives no reason for killing defenseless women and male children. In addition, it has been suggested that the young girls mentioned in the account were spared so that the Israelite men could rape them. Such accusations are baseless, however, as is evident when they are viewed in light of other related passages.

The most widely questioned section of Numbers 31 is verses 17-18: “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women-children, that have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.” To understand this passage, one must realize that Numbers 25 is the “prequel” to the events recorded in Numbers 31. Numbers 25 tells how the Midianites, specifically the women, led the Israelites astray into worshiping the Baal or Peor. The Lord’s anger burned against Israel, and He struck them with a plague. The plague ended when Phinehas, the grandson of Aaron, killed an Israelite man and the Midianite woman he brought into his family (Numbers 25:6-9). The relations with Midianite women were in direct violation of God’s commands in Deuteronomy 7:3-4: “[N]either shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. For he will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of Jehovah be kindled against you, and he will destroy thee quickly.”

As a result of these events, God instructed the Israelites to “Vex the Midianites, and smite them; for they vex you with their wiles, wherewith they have beguiled you in the matter of Peor, and in the matter of Cozbi, the daughter of the prince of Midian, their sister, who was slain on the day of the plague in the matter of Peor” (Numbers 25:17-18). When, in Numbers 31, the army brought back the women, it was in direct violation to God’s order in Numbers 25 to destroy the Midianites, who would lead the Israelites into apostasy.

But how can we explain the destruction of the young boys? Why were they not spared along with the young girls? Skeptics read of events such as the conquest of Canaan, and contend that no God could be so cruel as to call for the destruction of an entire nation. The mere idea of the God of heaven ordering the death of women and innocent children so outraged infidel Thomas Paine that he said such a scenario was sufficient evidence in and of itself to cause him to reject the divine origin of the Bible (1795, p. 90). In fact, he condemned the Bible for its alleged moral atrocities, and even went so far as to blame the Bible for virtually every moral injustice ever committed. He wrote:

Whence arose the horrid assassinations of whole nations of men, women, and infants, with which the Bible is filled; and the bloody persecutions, and tortures unto death and religious wars, that since that time have laid Europe in blood and ashes; whence arose they, but from this impious thing called revealed religion, and this monstrous belief that God has spoken to man? (p. 185).

However, to allege that the God of the Bible is some sort of “monster” for ordering Israel to destroy the inhabitants of Canaan exhibits an ignorance of biblical teaching. Those inhabitants were destroyed because of their wickedness (Deuteronomy 9:4; 18:9-14). They were so evil that their Creator no longer could abide their corruption. That they had numerous opportunities to repent is evident from the prophetic books (Nineveh did repent, for example, and for a time stayed the day of destruction). Complaining about Jehovah’s order to destroy innocent children is a vain gesture when one realizes that the children were spared an even worse fate of being reared as slaves under the domination of sin. Instead of having to endure the scourge of a life of immorality and wickedness, these innocents were ushered early into the bliss of Paradise. If the male children had been allowed to mature, they most likely would have followed the pagan ways of their forefathers, and eventually would have taken vengeance on the Israelites. Killing the males not only prevented them from falling into the same abominable sins as their parents, but also kept Israel from having to battle them later.

Man hardly can blame God and His Word for the awful consequences of sin; rather, he has only himself to blame (Romans 3:23; 5:12). A parent who warns a child of the consequences of disobedience, threatens an appropriate punishment, and then is true to his word at the event of infraction, generally is considered to be a firm-but-loving parent by clear-thinking people. Yet, critics ask us to view God as some type of ogre for following the same course of action. The discrepancy is not with the Almighty, but with His cowering critics.

The allegation that the Israelite men spared the young girls in order to rape them is nothing but baseless supposition predicated upon a lack of biblical knowledge. In the custom of the time, marriages were conducted at a young age. Therefore, the reference to the young girls who had not “known man by lying with him” would indicate that they were very young, likely under the age of twelve. These girls were too young to be able to lead the men of Israel away from Jehovah; therefore, these girls were allowed to live. As to raping them, it is more logical to assume that they wanted these girls for servants. This would be similar to Joshua 9, where Joshua allowed the Gibeonites to live in compelled servitude to the Israelites. Moreover, it would have been sinful for the Israelite men to rape the Midianite girls because rape was (and still is) abhorrent to God (Deuteronomy 22:23-28, esp. 25).

The simple answer to the questions surrounding Numbers 31 is that God ordered the Midianites to be killed in Numbers 25:17-18. When the army did not carry out this order at the time of the Midianite defeat, it was carried out in a delayed fashion when the army returned with the captives. As to Moses allowing the young girls to remain alive, that was a judgment call from the man with God’s authority over the Israelites.

God is the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and all-righteous “I Am” Who is over all things—so He may do whatever He wishes, so long as it is not in violation of His character. However, God does everything for a reason. Sometimes that reason may be unclear to us. In the case of the destruction of people like the Canaanites, God’s reasoning had to do with His justice. Deuteronomy 32:3-4 records: “For I will proclaim the name of Jehovah: Ascribe ye greatness unto our God. The Rock, his work is perfect; For all his ways are justice: A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, Just and right is he” (emp. added). Men may not always understand God’s justice, or His reasons for exercising it as He does. As Job 4:17 asked: “ Shall mortal man be more just than God? Shall a man be more pure than his Maker?” (emp. added). The fact is, God does condone killing—in the name of justice (whether it be justice in regard to one person, or a whole nation). Even in modern times, the death penalty is an acceptable means of administering justice (Romans 13:1-7; cf. Genesis 9:6). While God is all loving, He also is a God of justice, and He will execute that justice in the most propitious manner—including by means of death.

you still have no clue and are simply looking up Biblical quotes online from other atheists.

To understand Numbers 31, you have to read and understand Numbers 25. If all you and other atheists do is take isolated verses out, then you are truly missing the entire lesson being taught.

LOL good one JediYoda. :) You beat me to it.

Really? You both have just excused away Genocide. Congratulations.
:rolleyes:
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,769
6,336
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So to summarize…. :p

Posters who believe in a Christian god do so primarily on the basis of faith, often coupled to some personal divine inspiration. The willingness to believe that god exists makes it easy to accept accounts of godly miracles and other divine interventions (such as those in the bible) at face value. Supernatural events aren’t extraordinary; they’re actually “ordinary” in the sense that believers expect to find instances of god’s actions now and back through history. Going further, these “ordinary” supernatural events are taken as evidence (or “proof”) of god’s existence.

Some believers posting in this thread have previously acknowledged that experience/revelation and acceptance of biblical truth occur around the same time. Together these two pieces form a strong, logically consistent circle of belief that can’t be broken by worldly arguments.

Posters who do not believe in a Christian god generally withhold belief unless/until there is reason (i.e. facts/evidence) to believe. Having neither blind faith nor personal divine revelation, non-believers do not assume the existence of god and therefore aren’t nearly as willing to accept accounts of supernatural events. Supernatural events would be extraordinary (and require extraordinary evidence). The more mundane “natural” explanations (that include all natures of human frailties) are more in line with our understanding of how the world works and therefore more easily believed.

Non-believers by definition have not found enough reason to believe any of the thousands of supernatural beliefs espoused by sincere people around this world. Without Christian faith, the supernatural aspects of biblical accounts are simply not credible (and no more credible that similar claims by other believers). Arguments that further study of the bible will somehow erase its superficial inconsistencies and reveal its deeper unerring truths have no traction with someone without faith that the Christian god exists. Perhaps there could be an event that was so extraordinary that it required a supernatural explanation (which would obviate the need for faith), but it’d have to be something even more outlandish as the Seahawk Super Bowl victory.

What I’ve learned from this thread is that there are as many angry theists as angry atheists (and that you should all be a bit more agnostic). ;)

Pretty much, except the end. We are all Agnostics. Some of us just pretend to Know.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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What is your stance on abortion?
sorry SlowSpyder.....just because you have born again Christians as friends or family members does not mean that you understand or have a true working of the scriptures!

That's like somebody saying I have friends who are heart surgeons and all my family are doctors so I have an understanding of heart surgery....lol...now that is a crock....

I am not answering any more questions from you until you actually read what was posted and attempt to understand...sorry, your wasting my time and the time of those of us who are believers...
Peace!!
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
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Really? You both have just excused away Genocide. Congratulations.
actually what I have done is used the scriptures to support my position. In your human thinking you can claim what you wish, it is quite obvious this has been a futile waste of time......

You believe what you will but please don`t use your corny amateurish excuses for not understanding things in context of what was written....

I for one have went to great lengths to support based on the Bible what I believe....
You on the other hand pick and choose and expect us to tremble in our boots because you have misquoted and misunderstood scripture. basically you pick and choose.....

You have a great life and we shall see someday who was right...oh by the way don`t ask for a finger with a drop of water on it....

Peace!!
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,769
6,336
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sorry SlowSpyder.....just because you have born again Christians as friends or family members does not mean that you understand or have a true working of the scriptures!

That's like somebody saying I have friends who are heart surgeons and all my family are doctors so I have an understanding of heart surgery....lol...now that is a crock....

I am not answering any more questions from you until you actually read what was posted and attempt to understand...sorry, your wasting my time and the time of those of us who are believers...
Peace!!

Who does "understand" the Scriptures? People have killed each other over disagreements about them.

I find it ironic how your last large post was essentially just advocating the killing of Infidels.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,769
6,336
126
actually what I have done is used the scriptures to support my position. In your human thinking you can claim what you wish, it is quite obvious this has been a futile waste of time......

You believe what you will but please don`t use your corny amateurish excuses for not understanding things in context of what was written....

I for one have went to great lengths to support based on the Bible what I believe....
You on the other hand pick and choose and expect us to tremble in our boots because you have misquoted and misunderstood scripture. basically you pick and choose.....

You have a great life and we shall see someday who was right...oh by the way don`t ask for a finger with a drop of water on it....

Peace!!

I understand that Genocide is evil. You seem unable to grasp that simple concept.
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
4,763
327
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So you don't like atheists looking up quotes from others, but you congratulate JediYoda for copying complete websites (and not giving proper credit):

https://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=763

Have either of you actually read the bible for yourselves?

I don't mind anyone looking up Scripture. What I do mind is quoting a Scripture verse without the understanding of what it actually is conveying. That is what atheists do - take a verse such as in Numbers, point to it and say "See, your God is evil, immoral, genocidal, pro-rape, etc..." or whatever other horrid thing you can make up from the passage of Scripture.

As for JY, he can defend himself.

And I have read the Bible cover to cover 3 times and several chapters - mainly New Testament - more than that. My Church teaches the Bible expositionally which I find very enlightening.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
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So you don't like atheists looking up quotes from others, but you congratulate JediYoda for copying complete websites (and not giving proper credit):

https://www.apologeticspress.org/apc...11&article=763

Have either of you actually read the bible for yourselves?
I have read the Bible numerous times.
I have also used that website extensively. It`s just plain accurate.

Also I have quit posting links to websites due to the plain ignorance of the people in this thread.

If the best you can do is point out that I did not give credit to the website fair enuf!!

Yet that website is very accurate and debunks most atheists talking points concerning the scriptures very well!!

You on the other hand need to understand that when reading or posting verses from scripture that Atheists Love to take them out of context and make a big deal out of something quite frankly that Atheists do not understand! When reading or studying scripture you need to understand the context and you sometimes need to understand the preceding as well as well chapters that follow.

I found it quite amusing that your buddy Sandorsky instead of reading what I posted about those verses in Numbers jumped right away on the Atheism party line by claiming that I approve of genocide. Had he read or even taken a moment to understands the verses the context and Numbers 35 he would have come to a different conclusion...we no he wouldn`t have.....because his mind is already made up.

There is one real good reason why I have quit posting links and that is to make you do some work and read what I posted.
After all some of us try to explain things and in reality what we do doesn`t really matter to you because you already have your cute ignorant Atheistic response already made up -- such as sandorsky response to the Numbers verses - Really? You both have just excused away Genocide. Congratulations. or another ignorant response -- I find it ironic how your last large post was essentially just advocating the killing of Infidels.-- I understand that Genocide is evil. You seem unable to grasp that simple concept.


Then sandorsly also says this in another thread -- I'm not saying dumb stuff here, I am pointing out the glaring problems with this belief. Even the authors of the Bible knew that their assertions were weak, so they added apologetics from the start. A god as asserted would not require excuses as obvious as these. -- when in reality the glaring problem is with Sandorsky and his limited understanding of the scriptures!


I don't mind anyone looking up Scripture. What I do mind is quoting a Scripture verse without the understanding of what it actually is conveying. That is what atheists do - take a verse such as in Numbers, point to it and say "See, your God is evil, immoral, genocidal, pro-rape, etc..." or whatever other horrid thing you can make up from the passage of Scripture.
:thumbsup: <--- I can only add that Atheists think they are so smart but in reality they are very ignorant when it comes to the scriptures.
 
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JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
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So you don't like atheists looking up quotes from others, but you congratulate JediYoda for copying complete websites (and not giving proper credit):

https://www.apologeticspress.org/apc...11&article=763

Have either of you actually read the bible for yourselves?
I have read the Bible numerous times.
I have also used that website extensively. It`s just plain accurate.

Also I have quit posting links to websites due to the plain ignorance of the people in this thread.

If the best you can do is point out that I did not give credit to the website fair enuf!!

Yet that website is very accurate and debunks most atheists talking points concerning the scriptures very well!!

You on the other hand need to understand that when reading or posting verses from scripture that Atheists Love to take them out of context and make a big deal out of something quite frankly that as Atheists do not understand! When reading or studying scripture you need to understand the context and you sometimes need to understand the preceding as well as well chapters that follow.

I found it quite amusing that your buddy Sandorsky instead of reading what I posted about those verses in Numbers jumped right away on the Atheism party line by claiming that I approve of genocide. Had he read or even taken a moment to understands the verses the context and Numbers 35 he would have come to a different conclusion...we no he wouldn`t have.....because his mind is already made up.

There is one real good reason why I have quit posting links and that is because obviously you might have done your homework and read what I posted.
I don't mind anyone looking up Scripture. What I do mind is quoting a Scripture verse without the understanding of what it actually is conveying. That is what atheists do - take a verse such as in Numbers, point to it and say "See, your God is evil, immoral, genocidal, pro-rape, etc..." or whatever other horrid thing you can make up from the passage of Scripture.
:thumbsup: <--- I can only add that Atheists think they are so smart but in reality they are very ignorant when it comes to the scriptures.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,151
108
106
So to summarize&#8230;. :p

Posters who believe in a Christian god do so primarily on the basis of faith, often coupled to some personal divine inspiration. The willingness to believe that god exists makes it easy to accept accounts of godly miracles and other divine interventions (such as those in the bible) at face value.

I don't think you want to talk about "face value" in an evolution-only educational system and classroom (mind you, I am NOT disputing the veracity of it in this post). Teachers are doing essentially what religion does -- teaching from printed books based on research someone else did and telling children this is the truth concerning the origins of man, and there is no "need' to consider any other theroy. We call that "brainwahing". It happend to me, as God didn't enter the picture until I got home from school. I am glad it did.

My point is, there is no more "critical thinking" in science classroom than there is in a church. I was taught that evolution was such a fact that even considering anything else is stupid.

How is that encouraging critical thinking? (I am also not an advocate of teaching creation in school).

Non-believers by definition have not found enough reason to believe any of the thousands of supernatural beliefs espoused by sincere people around this world

This is bad reasoning. Why do atheists love to perpetuate this myth that I have to study the "thousands of other supernatrual beliefs" before finding what I consider the true one?

Did any of you study the thousands of creations/origin of man stories before accepting evolution? How about the many abaondoned scientfic theories explaining how it took place? No, as you had only one teaching of orgins...evolution via natrual selection, and accepted the evidence without first considering and examining the many others based on scientifc evidence.

I know this because I finished school and did some college and nothing else was taught.

So don't sit here and talk to me about "critical thinking" and "blind acceptance" because that goes absoutely both ways. :rolleyes:
 
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JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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BTW -- Basically I am out of this thread.....
I am finding this a huge waste of time when nobody is going to change their mind on either side of the discussion!
 
Nov 29, 2006
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I don't think you want to talk about "face value" in an evolution-only educational system and classroom (mind you, I am NOT disputing the veracity of it in this post). Teachers are doing essentially what religion does -- teaching from printed books based on research someone else did and telling children this is the truth concerning the origins of man, and there is no "need' to consider any other theroy. We call that "brainwahing". It happend to me, as God didn't enter the picture until I got home from school. I am glad it did.

My point is, there is no more "critical thinking" in science classroom than there is in a church. I was taught that evolution was such a fact that even considering anything else is stupid.

How is that encouraging critical thinking? (I am also not an advocate of teaching creation in school).



This is bad reasoning. Why do atheists love to perpetuate this myth that I have to study the "thousands of other supernatrual beliefs" before finding what I consider the true one?

Did any of you study the thousands of creations/origin of man stories before accepting evolution? How about the many abaondoned scientfic theories explaining how it took place? No, as you had only one teaching of orgins...evolution via natrual selection, and accepted the evidence without first considering and examining the many others based on scientifc evidence.

I know this because I finished school and did some college and nothing else was taught.

So don't sit here and talk to me about "critical thinking" and "blind acceptance" because that goes absoutely both ways. :rolleyes:

It is obvious you have no concept of how science works and how it is 100% different from your blind faith/acceptance and shows you lack critical thinking. So lets just drop this topic and let it die already as you guys just make yourself look silly with these assertions.
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
4,763
327
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It is obvious you have no concept of how science works and how it is 100% different from your blind faith/acceptance and shows you lack critical thinking. So lets just drop this topic and let it die already as you guys just make yourself look silly with these assertions.

Most of us, probably as many Christians as atheists understand how science works. I certainly do. We do not accept blindly our Faith. Our Faith is revealed in God's work and is supported by such.

I think it is important we do not drop the topic. It is a good discussion to dispel the mythology our atheists have about who a Christian is - in all our many denominations.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,002
126
sorry SlowSpyder.....just because you have born again Christians as friends or family members does not mean that you understand or have a true working of the scriptures!

That's like somebody saying I have friends who are heart surgeons and all my family are doctors so I have an understanding of heart surgery....lol...now that is a crock....

I am not answering any more questions from you until you actually read what was posted and attempt to understand...sorry, your wasting my time and the time of those of us who are believers...
Peace!!


I have a much better understanding than you realize. I am not the one who trying to justify rape, murder of children/adults, slavery, or genocide as somehow moral. Good thing all those kids got sent to heavenly bliss!

For all your copied word play, in the end god still gave the thumbs up to rape and slavery (and estimate show god killed about 2.2 million to 25 million people depending on actual populations and estimates of armies/cities used).

I wonder if our military did the same things mentioned in the passages we are discussing contained in the book of numbers in Iraq and Afghanistan, if we would consider it 'moral'. Actually I don't wonder about it at all, I know we would be absolutely disgusted.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,151
108
106
It is obvious you have no concept of how science works and how it is 100% different from your blind faith/acceptance and shows you lack critical thinking. So lets just drop this topic and let it die already as you guys just make yourself look silly with these assertions.

Yeah, a common accusation when you cant refute what I said. Its the same as "you don't understand the bible" when your ilk criticize something in it.

Same thing.

Secondly, sherlock, I wasn't criticising science...just the method in which evolution-only education is forced on kids.

Try reading a bit more carefully.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,002
126
Most of us, probably as many Christians as atheists understand how science works. I certainly do. We do not accept blindly our Faith. Our Faith is revealed in God's work and is supported by such.

I think it is important we do not drop the topic. It is a good discussion to dispel the mythology our atheists have about who a Christian is - in all our many denominations.


Please correct me if I'm wrong, but for everything posted what it seems to boil down to is that christians believe in god due to circular reasoning, and I don't see how any thinking person can get beyond that.

Here is how I see christian thinking:

I know god/jesus are divine and real because the bible tells me so.

I know the bible is right because it is the infallible word of god.


Even if we dismiss all the scientific talk, we stop discussing whether the christian god was moral, you still have to explain how you know your religion to be right. How do you know the billion or so believers in hinduism are wrong and you're right, as an example? Why did christianity have to borrow so many of the same stories from other, older religions? What makes those stories true for christianity but unbelievable for other religions?
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
4,763
327
126
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but for everything posted what it seems to boil down to is that christians believe in god due to circular reasoning, and I don't see how any thinking person can get beyond that.

Here is how I see christian thinking:

I know god/jesus are divine and real because the bible tells me so.

I know the bible is right because it is the infallible word of god.


Even if we dismiss all the scientific talk, we stop discussing whether the christian god was moral, you still have to explain how you know your religion to be right. How do you know the billion or so believers in hinduism are wrong and you're right, as an example? Why did christianity have to borrow so many of the same stories from other, older religions? What makes those stories true for christianity but unbelievable for other religions?

Here is how I see atheist thinking:

1.There is no God.
2.Miracles are the supernatural work of God.
3.Therefore, miracles are impossible.
4.The Bible contains reports of miracles.
5.Therefore, the Bible contains legendary material or historical misrepresentations.
6.Therefore, the Bible cannot be trusted.
7.Therefore, there is no evidence for God.
8.Therefore, there is no God.


Circular reasoning.

So lets stop with that nonsense and get back to a discussion without using such irrationality.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,151
108
106
Here is how I see atheist thinking:

1.There is no God.
2.Miracles are the supernatural work of God.
3.Therefore, miracles are impossible.
4.The Bible contains reports of miracles.
5.Therefore, the Bible contains legendary material or historical misrepresentations.
6.Therefore, the Bible cannot be trusted.
7.Therefore, there is no evidence for God.
8.Therefore, there is no God.


Circular reasoning.

So lets stop with that nonsense and get back to a discussion without using such irrationality.

Damn spot on with this. :thumbsup:
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,880
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Here is how I see atheist thinking:

1.There is no God.
2.Miracles are the supernatural work of God.
3.Therefore, miracles are impossible.
4.The Bible contains reports of miracles.
5.Therefore, the Bible contains legendary material or historical misrepresentations.
6.Therefore, the Bible cannot be trusted.
7.Therefore, there is no evidence for God.
8.Therefore, there is no God.


Circular reasoning.



So lets stop with that nonsense and get back to a discussion without using such irrationality.

Spot on. You totally nailed us. :rolleyes:
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,769
6,336
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Here is how I see atheist thinking:

1.There is noGod. false, as has been pointed out repeatedly to you
2.Miracles are the supernatural work of God. would have to be, no?
3.Therefore, miracles are impossible. ecidence of any? If they occur, there must be
4.The Bible contains reports of miracles. indeed
5.Therefore, the Bible contains legendary material or historical misrepresentations. until evidence is put forth, it is the ONLY reasonable conclusion
6.Therefore, the Bible cannot be trusted. there are other things too
7.Therefore, there is no evidence for God. thgere isn't, even outside the Bible there isn't
8.Therefore, there is no God. the most likely answer, given the lack of evidence


Circular reasoning.

So lets stop with that nonsense and get back to a discussion without using such irrationality.

Not Circular, somewhat of a Strawman on your part, Certainly a whole lot of Intellectual laziness though.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
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