A case for religion, and against AA.

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Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
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Don't be dishonest, you implied it. :rolleyes:

I didn't say it. You were just too eager to flind my argument fallacious and didn't bother to read.

The Bible certainly was kept out of the hands of the common folk, but again you are being dishonest as it still was the core of Religious practice and belief.

I don't know what point you're trying to make, to be honest.

The Catholic Church merely used their position to control the population by ensuring a consistent interpretation of what was in the Bible.

That's what I said.

Even they understood the flaws and knew that widespread reading would lead to fracturing Christianity into many small pieces.

Good for them, as they deserved to be fractured. But my point is they tried to keep it hidden, it didn't work. God wasn't necessarily with that version of Chrsitianity which is why the Bible spread, and therefore fractured the control of the catholic Church.

Whether or not they understood "flaws" is something you don't know, maybe they were scared people would know the truth. Ever considered that?

Of course you didn't.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
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What is there to search for on Google? You just said that the bible is true to you because it is the leader of a popularity contest while again deflecting the whole slavery subject.

No, I brought that up to show how your slavery arguement doesn't work against the Bible. What, you think you're the first one to make this argument? Go back a few centuries, and see how that has failed to keep people from God.

Sometimes, I think you atheists are jealous.

Tell me why it is a pointless argument too, please. The only reason I think it isn't brought up in church these days is because that doesn't fill the collection plate nearly as well as telling sheeple what they want to hear. I bet that up to fairly recent history scriptures in the bible regarding slavery were in fact a big part of christianity.

It pointless in that neither of us are going to change their minds.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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I didn't say it. You were just too eager to flind my argument fallacious and didn't bother to read.



I don't know what point you're trying to make, to be honest.



That's what I said.



Good for them, as they deserved to be fractured. But my point is they tried to keep it hidden, it didn't work. God wasn't necessarily with that version of Chrsitianity which is why the Bible spread, and therefore fractured the control of the catholic Church.

Whether or not they understood "flaws" is something you don't know, maybe they were scared people would know the truth. Ever considered that?

Of course you didn't.

Other versions of Christianity are always not "Gods'", that's one thing most Christians can agree on. A god so amazing as proposed would be able to prevent so much fracturing, so many violent conflicts amongst those who are sincere in their desire to be faithful to it, and many would be convinced of its' existence due to such harmony. However, nothing even close to that has come to pass in 2000 years of practice.

With 2 general exceptions:

1) the tight control of the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox over the message was reasonably successful in establishing long term consistency.

2) the rise of Secular Governance forced Religion to take a less prominent role in Society.

Where god failed, Reason prevailed. The life you currently enjoy is not the result of any Religion, it is despite it.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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No, I brought that up to show how your slavery arguement doesn't work against the Bible. What, you think you're the first one to make this argument? Go back a few centuries, and see how that has failed to keep people from God.

Sometimes, I think you atheists are jealous.



It pointless in that neither of us are going to change their minds.


Just so I understand your point, what you are saying is the bible is miraculous to you because despite the many evil passages contained within it's text regarding slavery, it continues to flourish as a very influential (probably the most influential today) religious text because god made it so?
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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Maybe if this thread is still going next month I can post some of the better passages from the bible that seem to be ok with rape, too.

lets address that issue now why a month.....

A charge made by some atheists is that the Bible supports rape and that the God of the Bible is therefore a moral monster.

There are a number of passages they appeal to, attempting to document this claim, but do they really support the charge that is being made?

Let's look at the matter . . .

What Does God Think of Rape?

The claim that God has a favorable attitude toward rape is implausible on its face.

In all of the Bible passages that are cited to show this, the people involved are either married or unmarried. To rape a married woman would be forcible adultery, and to rape an unmarried woman would be forcible fornication.

As everyone knows, both adultery and fornication are strictly forbidden in the Bible. Doing either one forcibly would just make matters worse.

And, in fact, adultery carried the death penalty in the Old Testament:

Deuteronomy 22

[22] "If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall purge the evil from Israel."

We'll deal with the subject of the Old Testament's harsh legal penalties--including the death penalty--in another post, but for now let's look at a couple of the passages that are being cited as evidence that "God approves of rape" . . .



Sex in the City

In fact, let's continue on with the verses that immediately follow the one quoted above, which dealt with the classic situation of adultery. It established the death penalty for adultery, where both the man and the woman consent to the act, but how was this principle to be applied in related cases? One of them that gets discussed is this:

[23] "If there is a betrothed virgin, and a man meets her in the city and lies with her,

[24] then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife; so you shall purge the evil from the midst of you."

Here we are dealing with the case of a betrothed virgin, not a woman who has been cohabiting with her husband. Already, she is legally married, as the next verse indicates. If a man violates her then he has "violated his neighbor's wife."

This situation of a married woman who is still a virgin seems unusual to us, because in our cultures the point at which marriage is contracted and the point at which it is consummated are usually separated by only a few hours, but in ancient Israel it was typically much longer.

The situation is thus, in principle, the same as if she had been cohabiting with her husband. She is already legally married, and so if she willingly has sex with a man other than her husband, it counts as adultery.

Despite the fact that this is sometimes portrayed as a "death to the rape victim" passage, that is not what it is. Note that it specifies that the woman is put to death "because she did not cry for help though she was in the city."

The fact that nobody heard her cry for help in a populated area is taken as evidence that she consented to the sex act, under the longstanding (!) legal principle qui tacit consentire, or "silence means consent."

You can argue that a more refined application of this principle is desirable, and--indeed--the Old Testament Law foresaw a role for human judgment in sorting out the facts of the case (as applied by a trial at the city gates), but this law is not prescribing the death penalty for rape victims.

It's trying to provide an objective way of telling rape from adultery: If other parties heard the woman cry out then she's a rape victim and is not to be put to death.

The law is not trying to have rape victims killed. Quite the opposite. It's saying, "Do not automatically assume that every sexual act is adultery. Some are not consensual, and the woman is not to be punished in those cases."

The law is even willing to extend the presumption of non-consent to a woman in the very next case examined . . .



Rape in the Country

The passage continues:

[25] "But if in the open country a man meets a young woman who is betrothed, and the man seizes her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die.

[26] But to the young woman you shall do nothing; in the young woman there is no offense punishable by death, for this case is like that of a man attacking and murdering his neighbor;

[27] because he came upon her in the open country, and though the betrothed young woman cried for help there was no one to rescue her."

Here the woman is presumed to be a victim of rape. It is assumed that she did scream for help, but because the country isn't populated like the city, nobody heard her.

Note that this means that the law was willing to let certain adulteresses go free. The ancient Israelites weren't stupid. They knew that a sexual act performed in a deserted spot could be consensual. But the woman carries a presumption of innocence because there would have been nobody to hear her cry out.

Unlike in a densely-packed, walled city (the kind that has gates, where the trial and any subsequent punishment were supposed to take place), where people were jammed in together far more closely than in a modern city, and where a scream would be heard.

So the law does not have an anti-victim bias here. It's trying to help people distinguish between cases of adultery and cases of rape. If the crime occurs in the city and the woman screams, she's identified as a victim. If it occurs in the country, whether she screamed or not, she is presumed to have screamed and thus presumed to have been a victim.

In each of these cases, though, the man is regarded as guilty.

And in neither of these cases does God approve of rape.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
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Other versions of Christianity are always not "Gods'", that's one thing most Christians can agree on. A god so amazing as proposed would be able to prevent so much fracturing, so many violent conflicts amongst those who are sincere in their desire to be faithful to it, and many would be convinced of its' existence due to such harmony. However, nothing even close to that has come to pass in 2000 years of practice.

Have you read your Bible lately? You remember Jesus' parable of the wheat and the weeds? How about about "false teachers" coming in among you, or wolves among sheep?

It's well understood that there would be false "christians", which is why you see what you mentioned.

Had you been nearly as religous as you claimed to be, this would not have escaped your notice, but just like any "enlightened" atheist, you either miss or ignore these very fundamental aspects of the Bible.

2) the rise of Secular Governance forced Religion to take a less prominent role in Society.

Good, again. I for one am glad religion has taken a lesser role in the world. Generally speaking, things are worse off when religion rules...that's a failure of religion, not God.

Where god failed, Reason prevailed. The life you currently enjoy is not the result of any Religion, it is despite it.

Who said "the life I enjoy" is due religion anyway? The failure of religion doesn't reflect the failure of God no more than the failure of scientists reflect the failure of science.

We've been over that before. Stop saying dumb stuff.

EDIT: And before I hear the "no true scotsman" fallacy thrown at me, please consider that these words were mentioned before Chrsitianity got off the floor, let alone grew enough to fracture.
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,769
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Have you read your Bible lately? You remember Jesus' parable of the wheat and the weeds? How about about "false teachers" coming in among you, or wolves among sheep?

It's well understood that there would be false "christians", which is why you see what you mentioned.

Had you been nearly as religous as you claimed to be, this would not have escaped your notice, but just like any "enlightened" atheist, you either miss or ignore these very fundamental aspects of the Bible.



Good, again. I for one am glad religion has taken a lesser role in the world. Generally speaking, things are worse off when religion rules...that's a failure of religion, not God.



Who said "the life I enjoy" is due religion anyway? The failure of religion doesn't reflect the failure of God no more than the failure of scientists reflect the failure of science.

We've been over that before. Stop saying dumb stuff.

All very moot, as most of these "False Christians" sincerely seek gods' wisdom and guidance. If this god existed, would it not intervene for those who honestly seek it out?

Certainly there are charlatans who purposely seek to deceive, like the Watch Tower Society which has Biblically proven itself a False Prophet numerous times. Others, like many Televangelists are in it only for the easy Money. Regardless of these and other prominent fake clergy, the people filling the pews, apparently, have communion with this god. If that all was true, those seeking god would not be deceived or that god simply doesn't care enough to reveal the truth to those people.

I'm not saying dumb stuff here, I am pointing out the glaring problems with this belief. Even the authors of the Bible knew that their assertions were weak, so they added apologetics from the start. A god as asserted would not require excuses as obvious as these.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
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All very moot, as most of these "False Christians" sincerely seek gods' wisdom and guidance. If this god existed, would it not intervene for those who honestly seek it out?

Anything that rebuts you is "moot". Yeah, keep ignoring facts, which is the reason why you keep saying "all very moot" because they're uncomfortable truths.

Would God intervene? How do you know he hasn't?

Certainly there are charlatans who purposely seek to deceive, like the Watch Tower Society which has Biblically proven itself a False Prophet numerous times.

You have to claim to be a prophet before you can become a false one. I don't recall them ever claiming to be God's prophet.


Others, like many Televangelists are in it only for the easy Money. Regardless of these and other prominent fake clergy, the people filling the pews, apparently, have communion with this god. If that all was true, those seeking god would not be deceived or that god simply doesn't care enough to reveal the truth to those people.

Then Jesus is right then, huh?


I'm not saying dumb stuff here, I am pointing out the glaring problems with this belief. Even the authors of the Bible knew that their assertions were weak, so they added apologetics from the start. A god as asserted would not require excuses as obvious as these.

LOL, where's your proof of this, Sandorski?
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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I'm not saying dumb stuff here, I am pointing out the glaring problems with this belief. Even the authors of the Bible knew that their assertions were weak, so they added apologetics from the start. A god as asserted would not require excuses as obvious as these.
proof......
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,769
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Anything that rebuts you is "moot". Yeah, keep ignoring facts, which is the reason why you keep saying "all very moot" because they're uncomfortable truths.

Would God intervene? How do you know he hasn't?



You have to claim to be a prophet before you can become a false one. I don't recall them ever claiming to be God's prophet.




Then Jesus is right then, huh?




LOL, where's your proof of this, Sandorski?

The Watch Tower Society has made Prophetic announcements numerous times, each time being wrong.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
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The Watch Tower Society has made Prophetic announcements numerous times, each time being wrong.

That's not what I asked you...I asked you where have they claimed to be "prophets" to being with?

Secondly, you said they "purposefully seek to decieve". That simply isn't true of many religions. Better still, PROVE IT!

Every religion gets things wrong from time to time. They want to understand the Bible (every church), and getting things wrong means they're trying.

Science learns from looking for answers, and stubbing its toe from time to time. Religion *can* be the same, especially when it comes to understanding what they see as prophecy.

I've never met someone that misses these glaringly simple concepts as much as you are. You're either being deliberately obtuse, or simply don't know any better.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
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Just have faith he's right... I thought we didn't require proof around here?

So you're admitting he's making a claim without evidence? Gotcha.

He made a claim that can be proven, unlike God, using the scientific method, so we can legitimately call for evidence or proof.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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That's not what I asked you...I asked you where have they claimed to be "prophets" to being with?

Secondly, you said they "purposefully seek to decieve". That simply isn't true of many religions. Better still, PROVE IT!

Every religion gets things wrong from time to time. They want to understand the Bible (every church), and getting things wrong means they're trying.

Science learns from looking for answers, and stubbing its toe from time to time. Religion *can* be the same, especially when it comes to understanding what they see as prophecy.

I've never met someone that misses these glaringly simple concepts as much as you are. You're either being deliberately obtuse, or simply don't know any better.

What is a Prophet, other than one who Prophecies?

I was talking about Charlatans.

Why is it so hard to understand if the Bible is consistent and the Word of God? The answer is pretty obvious, because it is neither.

You would think that a god could simply avoid such flaws. Why is it so flawed then?

I understand these things just fine. It seems it is you having the problem. You assert divine agency, yet it is not only indistinguishable from other human endeavours in its' result, but it dogmatically promotes dischord amongst humanity. Your conviction in your assertions is something shared by all Religions, yet they all can't be True. What purpose is Faith and Assurance when anyone can have it, even when it is in direct contradiction to someone elses Faith and Assurance. It is uninformative nonsense masquerading as the Truth.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,151
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What is a Prophet, other than one who Prophecies?

Reading Biblical prophecies isn't prophesying, as prophecies originate with the prophet.

Religion only gives their understanding of said prophecies...that isn't prophesying.

I was talking about Charlatans.
You're a Charlatan. See how that works? Calling someone a charlatan doesn't make them one.

Why is it so hard to understand if the Bible is consistent and the Word of God? The answer is pretty obvious, because it is neither.
Ok.
You would think that a god could simply avoid such flaws. Why is it so flawed then?
I don't know...maybe the problem is with you.

I understand these things just fine.
No you don't.

You assert divine agency,
Where did I do this and pertaining to what?

Your conviction in your assertions is something shared by all Religions, yet they all can't be True.
Of course, see my post about "false Christians" meaning that I could be dead wrong. Only time will tell.

What purpose is Faith and Assurance when anyone can have it, even when it is in direct contradiction to someone elses Faith and Assurance. It is uninformative nonsense masquerading as the Truth.
Because we're all free to believe what we want to believe, and by definition, it will contradict....that's unavoidable.

The simple fact that there are many "truths" doesn't mean that there aren't any truths. Every religion should believe they have the truth, or why are they there in the first place?
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,769
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Reading Biblical prophecies isn't prophesying, as prophecies originate with the prophet.

Religion only gives their understanding of said prophecies...that isn't prophesying.

You're a Charlatan. See how that works? Calling someone a charlatan doesn't make them one.

Ok.
I don't know...maybe the problem is with you.

No you don't.

Where did I do this and pertaining to what?

Of course, see my post about "false Christians" meaning that I could be dead wrong. Only time will tell.

Because we're all free to believe what we want to believe, and by definition, it will contradict....that's unavoidable.

The simple fact that there are many "truths" doesn't mean that there aren't any truths. Every religion should believe they have the truth, or why are they there in the first place?

They didn't Read Bible prophecies, they asserted Dates as to their fulfillment. By Biblical standards, they prophesied.


Is Peter Popov a charlatan? Was Joseph Smith? You do agree that Charlatans do exist?

So "god" is too inept to correct me?

Do you or don't you assert divine agency? How can you believe if you don't, what purpose would it serve?

Then why Believe?

If everything is so vague, then the most reasonable choice is to not Believe in anything without good Evidence to support it. Belief does not bring one to the Truth, Knowledge does.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
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So you're admitting he's making a claim without evidence? Gotcha.

He made a claim that can be proven, unlike God, using the scientific method, so we can legitimately call for evidence or proof.


No, I believe he was using reason... I was calling on your inability to use that same thing, reasoning, and your "it feels good to me, so it must be real" mindset to simply assume he's right without any evidence. You are willing to do that for your soul, so why not his claims?


*edit - Have you prayed a mountain into the sea yet? The bible clearly says that is possible if you have faith, which you clearly do. Let's get going already.
 
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JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
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Reality and Numbers 31 17-18 would like to have a word with you.
The real truth is you have no real understanding of the Bible other than as any other book that you would read.....you have no interest in actually understanding the context of the verses that you throw out so blatantly!
Here is your answer...but I have no time to debate or try to answer your questions when any answer that I give you will pass off as being apologetic or more of that faith stuff.....
Peace to you!! We shall all know someday who is actually correct!!


The first five books of the Bible are full of stories of the conquest of Caanan. But one story that sometimes stands out in the minds of skeptics is the one found in Numbers 31, where God seemingly gives no reason for killing defenseless women and male children. In addition, it has been suggested that the young girls mentioned in the account were spared so that the Israelite men could rape them. Such accusations are baseless, however, as is evident when they are viewed in light of other related passages.

The most widely questioned section of Numbers 31 is verses 17-18: “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women-children, that have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.” To understand this passage, one must realize that Numbers 25 is the “prequel” to the events recorded in Numbers 31. Numbers 25 tells how the Midianites, specifically the women, led the Israelites astray into worshiping the Baal or Peor. The Lord’s anger burned against Israel, and He struck them with a plague. The plague ended when Phinehas, the grandson of Aaron, killed an Israelite man and the Midianite woman he brought into his family (Numbers 25:6-9). The relations with Midianite women were in direct violation of God’s commands in Deuteronomy 7:3-4: “[N]either shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. For he will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of Jehovah be kindled against you, and he will destroy thee quickly.”

As a result of these events, God instructed the Israelites to “Vex the Midianites, and smite them; for they vex you with their wiles, wherewith they have beguiled you in the matter of Peor, and in the matter of Cozbi, the daughter of the prince of Midian, their sister, who was slain on the day of the plague in the matter of Peor” (Numbers 25:17-18). When, in Numbers 31, the army brought back the women, it was in direct violation to God’s order in Numbers 25 to destroy the Midianites, who would lead the Israelites into apostasy.

But how can we explain the destruction of the young boys? Why were they not spared along with the young girls? Skeptics read of events such as the conquest of Canaan, and contend that no God could be so cruel as to call for the destruction of an entire nation. The mere idea of the God of heaven ordering the death of women and innocent children so outraged infidel Thomas Paine that he said such a scenario was sufficient evidence in and of itself to cause him to reject the divine origin of the Bible (1795, p. 90). In fact, he condemned the Bible for its alleged moral atrocities, and even went so far as to blame the Bible for virtually every moral injustice ever committed. He wrote:

Whence arose the horrid assassinations of whole nations of men, women, and infants, with which the Bible is filled; and the bloody persecutions, and tortures unto death and religious wars, that since that time have laid Europe in blood and ashes; whence arose they, but from this impious thing called revealed religion, and this monstrous belief that God has spoken to man? (p. 185).

However, to allege that the God of the Bible is some sort of “monster” for ordering Israel to destroy the inhabitants of Canaan exhibits an ignorance of biblical teaching. Those inhabitants were destroyed because of their wickedness (Deuteronomy 9:4; 18:9-14). They were so evil that their Creator no longer could abide their corruption. That they had numerous opportunities to repent is evident from the prophetic books (Nineveh did repent, for example, and for a time stayed the day of destruction). Complaining about Jehovah’s order to destroy innocent children is a vain gesture when one realizes that the children were spared an even worse fate of being reared as slaves under the domination of sin. Instead of having to endure the scourge of a life of immorality and wickedness, these innocents were ushered early into the bliss of Paradise. If the male children had been allowed to mature, they most likely would have followed the pagan ways of their forefathers, and eventually would have taken vengeance on the Israelites. Killing the males not only prevented them from falling into the same abominable sins as their parents, but also kept Israel from having to battle them later.

Man hardly can blame God and His Word for the awful consequences of sin; rather, he has only himself to blame (Romans 3:23; 5:12). A parent who warns a child of the consequences of disobedience, threatens an appropriate punishment, and then is true to his word at the event of infraction, generally is considered to be a firm-but-loving parent by clear-thinking people. Yet, critics ask us to view God as some type of ogre for following the same course of action. The discrepancy is not with the Almighty, but with His cowering critics.

The allegation that the Israelite men spared the young girls in order to rape them is nothing but baseless supposition predicated upon a lack of biblical knowledge. In the custom of the time, marriages were conducted at a young age. Therefore, the reference to the young girls who had not “known man by lying with him” would indicate that they were very young, likely under the age of twelve. These girls were too young to be able to lead the men of Israel away from Jehovah; therefore, these girls were allowed to live. As to raping them, it is more logical to assume that they wanted these girls for servants. This would be similar to Joshua 9, where Joshua allowed the Gibeonites to live in compelled servitude to the Israelites. Moreover, it would have been sinful for the Israelite men to rape the Midianite girls because rape was (and still is) abhorrent to God (Deuteronomy 22:23-28, esp. 25).

The simple answer to the questions surrounding Numbers 31 is that God ordered the Midianites to be killed in Numbers 25:17-18. When the army did not carry out this order at the time of the Midianite defeat, it was carried out in a delayed fashion when the army returned with the captives. As to Moses allowing the young girls to remain alive, that was a judgment call from the man with God’s authority over the Israelites.

God is the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and all-righteous “I Am” Who is over all things—so He may do whatever He wishes, so long as it is not in violation of His character. However, God does everything for a reason. Sometimes that reason may be unclear to us. In the case of the destruction of people like the Canaanites, God’s reasoning had to do with His justice. Deuteronomy 32:3-4 records: “For I will proclaim the name of Jehovah: Ascribe ye greatness unto our God. The Rock, his work is perfect; For all his ways are justice: A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, Just and right is he” (emp. added). Men may not always understand God’s justice, or His reasons for exercising it as He does. As Job 4:17 asked: “ Shall mortal man be more just than God? Shall a man be more pure than his Maker?” (emp. added). The fact is, God does condone killing—in the name of justice (whether it be justice in regard to one person, or a whole nation). Even in modern times, the death penalty is an acceptable means of administering justice (Romans 13:1-7; cf. Genesis 9:6). While God is all loving, He also is a God of justice, and He will execute that justice in the most propitious manner—including by means of death.
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
4,763
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Reality and Numbers 31 17-18 would like to have a word with you.

you still have no clue and are simply looking up Biblical quotes online from other atheists.

To understand Numbers 31, you have to read and understand Numbers 25. If all you and other atheists do is take isolated verses out, then you are truly missing the entire lesson being taught.
 

deadken

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2004
3,199
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I am kind of surprised that this thread is still going. I had thought that this forum was supposed to be a little bit separate from the crazies and BS that goes on in P&N. I guess not...

I have read very little of this thread. I had read the first page or two, but when I never saw anyone even ask about who the 'Angry Atheists' are, I knew this was going to be just another thread filled with horseshit. It seems pretty obvious, from the very first sentence, what kind of person made this and what kind of sheeple it is intended for.

I feel a little bit sad for the Anandtech community as a whole.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
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What makes you feel I don't understand the context regarding the passage I quoted? Believe it or not, I have born again christians in my family and have had similar discussions before.

My atheist/agnostic view of the world makes morals very easy... treat others how I would like to be treated. I don't want to be raped (or murdered or made a slave). So in turn I am very much against rape. See how I don't need a wall of text to try and explain away my very moral standpoint? Women are clearly second class in the bible to men, not sure why believers want to pretend this would be any different.

Complaining about Jehovah’s order to destroy innocent children is a vain gesture when one realizes that the children were spared an even worse fate of being reared as slaves under the domination of sin. Instead of having to endure the scourge of a life of immorality and wickedness, these innocents were ushered early into the bliss of Paradise.


What is your stance on abortion?