A brief rant about my Linux experience.

loic2003

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2003
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From reading various nerd websites over the years you really can't avoid the ravings about linux and how good it is compared to the flawed MS operating systems. Recently, a colleague has joined our company who's a real Linux nut. Personally, my choice of operating systems are OSX and XP SP2. I figured I'd go ahead and 'learn linux' by installing it on a secondary box.

In the past I have had limited use of linux including mandrake, knoppix, suse and I believe red hat at uni.

So, I downloaded Fedora Core 4, burnt it and performed a standard install, allowing it to make the majority of choices of what to install for a desktop workstation. The install went nicely and I was shortly up and running with a basic desktop environment. Neato.

Now, all I needed to do was find some drivers. The linux proponent at work said all I had to do was use the in-built updating app right there within Fedora. I fired it up, entered the root password and it began working. But this is where I hit the first issue: for a start, it didn't really tell you what these packages it was downloading really did. It used hugely complex filenames that just added to the confusion. I let it work away, but after 45 minutes of staring at the hour glass and the progress bar not moving, I decided it had indeed failed. Three repetitons of this confirmed it.
Never mind.

On to the display driver: it was running in software mode which isn't good. Off I went to the Nvidia website and saw a Linux driver. Awesome, I thought! So there it was downloaded on the desktop. Neat. I double click on it. Fedora tells me it has no clue what to do with the file. Damn, got to read the freaking manual!
OK, so it needed to be executed from the terminal command line (hmm, I thought to myself, is it 2005 or 1985?). Whoops! that's no good, I needed to be logged in as root, which I could understand - Linux is afterall very secure. Just being able to enter a password as per OSX would have been cool, though.

In I logged as root, fired up the terminal and started the installer. Damn. No good again... why not now?! Ah right, the GUI was running, and I needed to search for some obscure text file and change a value in there so that linux would boot into a command-line based mode as opposed to running a GUI (X-server). FFS!

So I change the value, reboot it into console mode and run the display driver for the fith or sixth time. Uh oh, No go. Why? something to do with CC or GCC not being found... no clue. I call my buddy who's doing a master's degree in software engineering at York. Apparantly it required some C compiler because the display driver doesn't come down compiled.

We try all sorts such as making links and even sym links to this CC folder we found, but after an hour we just gave up as it simply was not running.


Now, am I being unreasonable here when I state that Linux is wholly inappropriate for a home desktop? The maintenance time required to perform even the most basic functionality is astronomical and leaves the average user hugely frustrated. I've not even thought about the mobo drivers, let alone the TV card I want to put in there.
You need to spend weeks learning the whole structure of the OS and then walk the OS through every basic procedure. I doesn't appear to want to do anything for you...

Don't get me wrong, I understand that it is a very powerful OS and is great in a server, but as a home machine it really isn't for me I think. I like the OSX way of 'it just works'. I like to hit that power button, log in and use the computer. Not maintain it, or just get it running.


Cliffs:
-Linux is a pain in the ass to get running and it p!ssed me off really badly.
-Windows and OSX are hugely simpler to get up and running.
-Read the post you lazy buggers.
 

Colt45

Lifer
Apr 18, 2001
19,720
1
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to go into text mode just type init 3 in the shell. no need to edit no files.

its pretty hard to compile something with no compiler.



looks like user error to me. :p
 

Tbirdkid

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2002
3,758
4
81
its still not ready for the common user. the advanced user has a hard time with it too.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
its far too complex to just "learn" by screwing around with it.

I personally hate linux for anything but a server environment.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
yup, xp and osx aren't popular because of mind control or some conspracy like some linux nuts want to believe.
 

loic2003

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2003
3,844
0
0
Originally posted by: rmrf
R

did you try the Fedora FAQ?

I call my buddy who's doing a master's degree in software engineering at York.

the quote above means exactly jack sh1t. does he do software engineering on linux?

5 seconds on google brought this up for me:

http://www.mjmwired.net/resources/mjm-fedora-fc4.html

maybe next time you should do a little more research or be a little more patient when you are learning a whole different OS!

You see, there's a machine there with a 1.3GHz processor, 512 RAM and a megabit connection. It has all the power it needs to be able to do this by itself. Why can't it pick up a compiler itself? Why do the drivers not come compiled? Why can't it pull down the drivers it needs itself? Why do i have to use a freaking terminal to install a driver? Why isn't the compiler installed as default since it's required for even the most basic functionality?
I only want to use the computer.

When I bought the mac I was up and running in ~20 minutes after updating the OS, and at the time it was a whole new OS to me. Even an XP machine with all it's terrible failings can install a display driver in maybe three or four clicks and a reboot.

As for the mention of my buddy, the point was that we both have a fair clue about IT and aren't exactly complete tards when it comes to IT, yet even with the walkthrough guides we still couldn't manage to install one driver.

And don't get me started on the UI. I mean, I've spent 15 minutes searching around for the setting to stop the OS opening a new window each time I select a directory. No luck still... no wonder you need multiple desktops.
And the settings: you've got 'preferences' and within that... 'more preferences'. Intuitive!

There's a lot that I really like about the fedora distro, but it just doesn't seem to have had any time spent on making it genuinely user-friendly just yet.

I'll work on it some more tonight and update tomorrow if I've had any luck at all.
 

loic2003

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2003
3,844
0
0
Originally posted by: dug777
ya rly, Xp SP2>*

serious? I'm looking forward to the x86 apple machines. In theory you'll be able to triple boot OSX, XP (Vista?) and Linux all on the same box. And since it'll have to be done on an apple box, there'll be uniform drivers made for them thus making life easier for the linux install.

First x86 macs due in january, the rumours say.
 

yhelothar

Lifer
Dec 11, 2002
18,409
39
91
Yep, sounds like my first experience with mandrake.
Linux fanboys can eat it, I'll stick with windows for my workstation.
 

lasergecko

Senior member
Jul 17, 2001
521
0
0
Why would you install Linux if you've got OS X? OS X has Terminal window and lots of the same utilities as linux. With Fink, you can install a lot if not all of the packages you'd install under linux.

The foundation of OS X is freeBSD.

Learn more about OS X.
 

xanis

Lifer
Sep 11, 2005
17,571
8
0
I can share your frustration with Linux. I did the same thing you did, trying Linux after hearing all the great reviews. To me it seems like the bottom line is this: Windows is for User-Friendliness. Linux is for stability. Oh, and don't expect to get a wireless network working with Linux, unless you take anger management and you have a lot of time on your hands.
 

exodus454

Senior member
Apr 11, 2004
465
0
0
I've installed linux for multiple 3-4 week periods and have had exactly the same reactions as you have. "This is way too complex" and i kept thinking to myself "i really dont see what the hype is" but the hype kept bringing me back time and time again.

XP is much better for home use, imo. Using suse it took me ~45mins just to play an mp3 last time, which windows will do on a fresh install without any "extra" software or "updated" drivers (most of the time, anyway :p )
 

loic2003

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2003
3,844
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Originally posted by: lasergecko
Why would you install Linux if you've got OS X? OS X has Terminal window and lots of the same utilities as linux. With Fink, you can install a lot if not all of the packages you'd install under linux.

The foundation of OS X is freeBSD.

Learn more about OS X.

Agreed. But OSX is running on an iBook with it's beastly 167MHz bus speed. My buddy is very much into his apple machines (Has been given scholarships to the San Fran macworld expo for the last two years) and so he used his knowledge to try and work his way around Linux.

It's mainly out of curiosity than anything else. I like to try out different OS's every so often (anyone remember BeOS from maybe 10 years ago?).
 

loic2003

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2003
3,844
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Originally posted by: Xanis
I can share your frustration with Linux. I did the same thing you did, trying Linux after hearing all the great reviews. To me it seems like the bottom line is this: Windows is for User-Friendliness. Linux is for stability. Oh, and don't expect to get a wireless network working with Linux, unless you take anger management and you have a lot of time on your hands.


Actually, on a previous install it worked fine with this netgear wireless card and I managed to get it connected no problem!
 

arcenite

Lifer
Dec 9, 2001
10,660
7
81
I too tried it myself and found it unnecessarily complex for what I needed it for. While I consider myself computer literate, I guess I just do not have the time to learn linux.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,790
6,349
126
Hehe, I hear ya. Tried it 3 or 4 times over the years and it was a PITA everytime. I'm sorry, I just don't want to know that much about the OS. I use an OS to do stuff with Software, not to use the OS.

I have a friend whoo knows his way around Linux quite well. Every once in awhile he'll use SUSE exclusively. Even he though gets tired of the dicking around with New Hardware or getting games to work. I've watched him spend hours just to get Sound to work, he'd get it working for an MP3 Player, then bhe'd spend hours more getting it to work in 1 game. He recently said " ****** it" and installed WinXP on his 2 main systems(1 desktop, 1 laptop) and kept SUSE for only his Server.

I wish Linux was better as there's some nice things about it(love the UI interfaces), but until someone seriously works on the Ease of Use it'll always be a PITA for the average User.
 
Jun 4, 2005
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I just got on a linux box for the first time three days ago, I'm loving it and don't know how I'd live without my precious terminal.
 

CraigRT

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
31,440
5
0
Originally posted by: sandorski
Hehe, I hear ya. Tried it 3 or 4 times over the years and it was a PITA everytime. I'm sorry, I just don't want to know that much about the OS. I use an OS to do stuff with Software, not to use the OS.

I have a friend whoo knows his way around Linux quite well. Every once in awhile he'll use SUSE exclusively. Even he though gets tired of the dicking around with New Hardware or getting games to work. I've watched him spend hours just to get Sound to work, he'd get it working for an MP3 Player, then bhe'd spend hours more getting it to work in 1 game. He recently said " ****** it" and installed WinXP on his 2 main systems(1 desktop, 1 laptop) and kept SUSE for only his Server.

I wish Linux was better as there's some nice things about it(love the UI interfaces), but until someone seriously works on the Ease of Use it'll always be a PITA for the average User.

Sounds much like my experience.. Same reason I no longer try toying around with it.. I just use what is easy, and what works... I stick with XP Pro on my home system.
 

Night Blade

Senior member
Oct 9, 1999
439
0
0
This sounds all too familar, I've tried a total of 6 to 10 or so installs over the years, every single one of them had an issue, usually with the network card hence no internet hence no updated drivers hence uninstall.

I do however have Auditor running on my notebook right now, will keep it for what it's meant to do, but again there's my wireless IPW2200 not associating with my AP ;), so browsing/gaming/work is all done under XP.

Linux for me has always been something to play around with, especially if you have the free time to get into it, otherwise using it as your main OS is asking for trouble.

PS: I was impressed with the latest Mandriva release for what it's worth
 

loup garou

Lifer
Feb 17, 2000
35,132
1
81
Watch out, they have reponses taken directly out of the Linux Fanboy Manual (LFM) precisely for posts like this. Consider yourself lucky this hasn't been moved to OS, lest you get burnt to a crisp by the flames.
 

BriGy86

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2004
4,537
1
91
the problem i see is that companies don't make good drivers for it, wireless works on linux but you have to search for the right card (its not that easy to do) and then when you do find a card that might work you have to see who carries it.

the reason windows is so great as far as its user friendliness is because if a company is making computer hardware for PC's they write drivers for windows

companies need to start writing drivers for linux and then it might become more popular
 

Superwormy

Golden Member
Feb 7, 2001
1,637
0
0
My experiences with Linux distro's have not been good at all.

You should check out FreeBSD sometime, FreeBSD ports make software very easy to install and I've had a lot less problems with version conflicts/broken ports/failing dependencies than I've had using a number of different Linux distros.