A brief rant about my Linux experience.

[BriGy86]

isn't linux basicly like win 3.1 95, 98, and ME?

its the linux distro running, with the KDE or Gnome etc. GUI running on top

like DOS and then 95 running on top of that

granted that linux is much more powerful

am i right?

 

[loic2003]

Originally posted by: BriGy86
isn't linux basicly like win 3.1 95, 98, and ME?

its the linux distro running, with the KDE or Gnome etc. GUI running on top

like DOS and then 95 running on top of that

granted that linux is much more powerful

am i right?

Best get into that flame suit....


Edit: maybe this should be in the OS forum?

 

[DurocShark]

Linspire FTW.

 

[wpshooter]

I tried the Ubuntu live CD and I could not even get it to recognize my dialup modem so I could get online. And all of that help I had heard about was NON-existent when I tried to find answer(s). The forum responders to my questions would give me some pat answer that did NOT work and then when I would let them know that it did not work and told them what happens when I tried the pat response, the line would just go silent, they did NOT know the answer.

IMHO, this operating system (Linux) will never be a real challenger to Windows, at least not in it's current stage of development.

 

[ATLien247]

Originally posted by: loic2003
You see, there's a machine there with a 1.3GHz processor, 512 RAM and a megabit connection. It has all the power it needs to be able to do this by itself. Why can't it pick up a compiler itself? Why do the drivers not come compiled? Why can't it pull down the drivers it needs itself? Why do i have to use a freaking terminal to install a driver? Why isn't the compiler installed as default since it's required for even the most basic functionality?
I only want to use the computer.

When I bought the mac I was up and running in ~20 minutes after updating the OS, and at the time it was a whole new OS to me. Even an XP machine with all it's terrible failings can install a display driver in maybe three or four clicks and a reboot.

As for the mention of my buddy, the point was that we both have a fair clue about IT and aren't exactly complete tards when it comes to IT, yet even with the walkthrough guides we still couldn't manage to install one driver.

And don't get me started on the UI. I mean, I've spent 15 minutes searching around for the setting to stop the OS opening a new window each time I select a directory. No luck still... no wonder you need multiple desktops.
And the settings: you've got 'preferences' and within that... 'more preferences'. Intuitive!

There's a lot that I really like about the fedora distro, but it just doesn't seem to have had any time spent on making it genuinely user-friendly just yet.

I'll work on it some more tonight and update tomorrow if I've had any luck at all.

I don't even use Linux myself, let alone know anything about FC4, but I have a few comments...

First, the FC4 standard install probably doesn't install GCC by default. You would probably need to select it as an option during install.

Second, just because you downloaded (and uncompressed, I assume) GCC doesn't mean the computer knows where you put it. My guess is you would need to add the directory to your PATH.

Third, there are so many different flavors of Linux that it doesn't make much sense for the hardware companies to compile endless variations of the same driver. Better to just have a generic driver, and let the user worry about compiling it.

Finally, SUSE's YaST and FreeBSD's ports collection are probably the closest you're going to get to "hand holding" when installing things.

 

[sciencewhiz]

Originally posted by: wpshooter
I tried the Ubuntu live CD and I could not even get it to recognize my dialup modem so I could get online.

So, you have a WINmodem, and blame linux because you aren't smart enough to realize that the name excludes the operating system you are trying to use.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz

Originally posted by: wpshooter
I tried the Ubuntu live CD and I could not even get it to recognize my dialup modem so I could get online.

So, you have a WINmodem, and blame linux because you aren't smart enough to realize that the name excludes the operating system you are trying to use.

Not everyone calls it that.

 

[loic2003]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz

Originally posted by: wpshooter
I tried the Ubuntu live CD and I could not even get it to recognize my dialup modem so I could get online.

So, you have a WINmodem, and blame linux because you aren't smart enough to realize that the name excludes the operating system you are trying to use.

Not everyone calls it that.

Not all modems are WINmodems are they?

 

[darkamulets]

Remember Linux to the home-user is free only if your time is worth nothing.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

For a standard desktop system you don't need the 3D-accelerated Nvidia driver, so why were you trying to install it?

Also, yum sucks and Fedora Core isn't for noobs.

 

[sciencewhiz]

Originally posted by: darkamulets
Remember Linux to the home-user is free only if your time is worth nothing.

Absolutely. However, you spend more time maintaining windows then you do setting up Linux.

 

[sciencewhiz]

Originally posted by: loic2003
Not all modems are WINmodems are they?

90% of modems made over the past 5 years are.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: loic2003
Not all modems are WINmodems are they?

Winmodem means they make the CPU do all the work instead of actual hardware on the card. By doing this, they rely heavily on windows drivers. Not all modems are winmodems. The ones that aren't are much more robust hardware wise and were more expensive at the time but only required very basic drivers.

As far as linux goes, it won't be a windows replacement until it can do everything windows can do and better. This means I should expect to be able to download a precompiled video driver in linux and install it, possibly without even rebooting.

 

[M00T]

I'm sorry but you people are biased. Many failures people have with linux are directly related to usage. Of course you will not succeed in using Linux in a desktop environment with a distribution that does not tailor to a wide range of users.

IMO, rpm based distros are evil and unusable for desktops. Yum is a poor attempt at ports, apt-get and portage. If you looked in the OS forum lately, you'd see that Ubuntu is the common answer for "what distro today?"

There is a reason for that. Ubuntu used apt-get which is a package management system capable of resolving and installing dependencies from common repositories. Apt-get is a mature system. It has been around longer than Fedora's Yum, and works a lot better.

If you really want to be subjective about linux and want a real desktop experience, try this combo:

Download and install Ubuntu.

Download and install the automatix script.



Now... learn how to use apt-get and forget about all those stupid RPM hells you came across with Fedora, Redhat and Suse.


If this doesn't improve your linux experience 100%, you can PM all your rants to me.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz

Originally posted by: loic2003
Not all modems are WINmodems are they?

90% of modems made over the past 5 years are.

There are linux compatible software modems

 

[Platypus]

No one said it was a desktop replacement, which you seem to have believed it was.... hence your frustration trying to make everything work with bleeding edge hardware. It takes a lot of messing around and googling config errors and what not but in reality it's not that hard. I think the real issue here is that you didn't really set out with a goal in mind.. you say you want to learn Linux but you get frustrated and type up a rant because you run into snags. If you really want to learn it then do so.. but quitting after you hit snags is not the way to do that.

Your second problem is that you are using Fedora.. how are you going to 'learn' about UNIX-like operating systems with an installer that's more friendly than Windows'?

Thirdly, using any sort of wizard within Fedora or any other distro is a mistake. Not only do you learn nothing but 99% of the time it doesn't even work to begin with. Fedora is notorious for this.

If you REALLY want to learn Linux, start with something that challenges you to do things on your own. I usually recommend Gentoo because the documentation is stellar, you SEE what the OS is doing because you build it and configure the files yourself, and you understand why everything works. No wizard can do that for you and you've learned nothing in the process.

Lastly... have a good reason to use it. Not that learning isn't a good reason, because it is, but have a goal in mind is all I am saying. Ask yourself what you want to do with your environment. How about an FTP server? Web server, DNS, coding environment, etc? These are the things where you learn most. Anyone can drop a CD in and have a workable environment but you gain nothing from this.

If you want some help I'd be more than happy to point you in the right direction.. it's what I do for a living after all.

 

[halik]

linux do you very little good if you're planning on running it as a desktop os. The whole UI layer is just hacks upon hacks... i mean I've been a long time linux user (I'm on my gentoo box right now) and I'm still about 70% correct on using copy and paste...

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: BriGy86
the problem i see is that companies don't make good drivers for it, wireless works on linux but you have to search for the right card (its not that easy to do) and then when you do find a card that might work you have to see who carries it.

the reason windows is so great as far as its user friendliness is because if a company is making computer hardware for PC's they write drivers for windows

companies need to start writing drivers for linux and then it might become more popular

it's got nothing to do with driver support, 95% of drivers out therea re ready and set. The problem is that there is no standard for packaging, application distribution or even the freaking gui. Competition in standards and interfaces is the dumbest argument you can ever make.

If you want to learn linux, get yourself a server box to play with. Linux as a desktop replacement will annoy you to no end.

<- Runs XP sp2 and OSX 10.4 on his P4@3.0 and gentoo on sun ultra 10

 

[M00T]

Originally posted by: halik
linux do you very little good if you're planning on running it as a desktop os. The whole UI layer is just hacks upon hacks... i mean I've been a long time linux user (I'm on my gentoo box right now) and I'm still about 70% correct on using copy and paste...

Windows is hacks upon hacks... hence the term "spaghetti code"

Linux has standards to abide by and reviewed code.

Your cut and paste problems are likely caused by conflicting buffers.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: M00T

Originally posted by: halik
linux do you very little good if you're planning on running it as a desktop os. The whole UI layer is just hacks upon hacks... i mean I've been a long time linux user (I'm on my gentoo box right now) and I'm still about 70% correct on using copy and paste...

Windows is hacks upon hacks... hence the term "spaghetti code"

Linux has standards to abide by and reviewed code.

Your cut and paste problems are likely caused by conflicting buffers.

Excuses aren't solutions. Unlinke my gentoo box, windows Sp2 actually provied me with an interface that works a lot better than anything open source.

This is the same kind of pointless arguments that has gotten Linux nowhere on the desktop in the past 5 years. People DON'T CARE how it's designed, implemented or what runs underneath, so long it works on the user side.

Also if you think Linux is not spaghetti code, look at the Xserver for god's sake. It's gotten to the point that new features break the old ones (offscreen buffer vs xinerema etc )

 

[trinketsummoner]

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz

Originally posted by: darkamulets
Remember Linux to the home-user is free only if your time is worth nothing.

Absolutely. However, you spend more time maintaining windows then you do setting up Linux.

How do you work that one out? I run XP MCE on my PC, i have xp updates autodownload, i have AVG AV that auto updates and i have a hardware firewall that i rarely need to update. I check once a month for various graphic/mobo drivers etc, but really you dont need to update those if your PC is stable.

If you are telling me that Linux never needs any updates or does them all with less user intervention im saying you are talking out of your ass.

 

[AnyMal]

No, no, and no. Windows 95 was the first true MS Operating System, it emulated DOS
(still does) but was not running on top of it. Windows 3.xx and before were Operating Environments running on top of the Operating System, DOS.

 

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: M00T

Originally posted by: halik
linux do you very little good if you're planning on running it as a desktop os. The whole UI layer is just hacks upon hacks... i mean I've been a long time linux user (I'm on my gentoo box right now) and I'm still about 70% correct on using copy and paste...

Windows is hacks upon hacks... hence the term "spaghetti code"

Linux has standards to abide by and reviewed code.

Your cut and paste problems are likely caused by conflicting buffers.

Excuses aren't solutions. Unlinke my gentoo box, windows Sp2 actually provied me with an interface that works a lot better than anything open source.

This is the same kind of pointless arguments that has gotten Linux nowhere on the desktop in the past 5 years. People DON'T CARE how it's designed, implemented or what runs underneath, so long it works on the user side.

Also if you think Linux is not spaghetti code, look at the Xserver for god's sake. It's gotten to the point that new features break the old ones (offscreen buffer vs xinerema etc )

The X server is not part of Linux. The real issue is that people are not paid to develop it so it's a hobbyist environment...

 

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: trinketsummoner

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz

Originally posted by: darkamulets
Remember Linux to the home-user is free only if your time is worth nothing.

Absolutely. However, you spend more time maintaining windows then you do setting up Linux.

How do you work that one out? I run XP MCE on my PC, i have xp updates autodownload, i have AVG AV that auto updates and i have a hardware firewall that i rarely need to update. I check once a month for various graphic/mobo drivers etc, but really you dont need to update those if your PC is stable.

If you are telling me that Linux never needs any updates or does them all with less user intervention im saying you are talking out of your ass.

In both FreeBSD or any BSD flavor for that matter, Gentoo Linux, etc it is one command to rebuild your world, which in essence updates all your software automatically. As far as software that is.. your kernel still needs to be updated by hand (which is a good thing).

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation

Originally posted by: trinketsummoner

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz

Originally posted by: darkamulets
Remember Linux to the home-user is free only if your time is worth nothing.

Absolutely. However, you spend more time maintaining windows then you do setting up Linux.

How do you work that one out? I run XP MCE on my PC, i have xp updates autodownload, i have AVG AV that auto updates and i have a hardware firewall that i rarely need to update. I check once a month for various graphic/mobo drivers etc, but really you dont need to update those if your PC is stable.

If you are telling me that Linux never needs any updates or does them all with less user intervention im saying you are talking out of your ass.

In both FreeBSD or any BSD flavor for that matter, Gentoo Linux, etc it is one command to rebuild your world, which in essence updates all your software automatically. As far as software that is.. your kernel still needs to be updated by hand (which is a good thing).

And then came reality - if you don't do emerge -u system and emerge -u -p world every month, your system will sqew so far off the portage that you can't update anything. I have 3 gentoo boxes runnign around me and two of them can't be updated due to portage conflicts...