9800GX2 cards are here

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nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
10,460
0
0
Originally posted by: justly
Originally posted by: nanaki333
Originally posted by: nRollo
NDA hasn't lifted quite yet, but I'll say people will notice the difference between a GX2 and a X2, which is as it should be.

i hope so.. just looking at tweaktown's review, it doesn't look very promising. hopefully anand posts a review by tomorrow. i don't really trust tweaktown's very much.

It looks as if nRollo is giving you strait up marketing speak and you are eating it right up.
He managed to avoid any tecnical answer and only told you "people will notice the difference" and that could mean almost anything (including people wont be impressed).

Reviews I've seen show people impressed.

I couldn't post specifics then due to NDA, now I don't have to "hint" anymore and can just say:

Go read any 9800GX2 review and see how it totally destroys any other single slot solution on the market. The AnandTech one is a click away.
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
10,460
0
0
Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Ripoff cards. $600 for old tech.

What does that make 3870 X2s and 3870s? They are just tweaked R600 cores that are almost a year old tech?
 

legoman666

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2003
3,628
1
0
Originally posted by: nRollo
Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Ripoff cards. $600 for old tech.

What does that make 3870 X2s and 3870s? They are just tweaked R600 cores that are almost a year old tech?

And by "1 year" you mean ~6 months?
 

Sutareteiru

Member
Feb 28, 2008
80
0
0
Originally posted by: legoman666
Originally posted by: nRollo
Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Ripoff cards. $600 for old tech.

What does that make 3870 X2s and 3870s? They are just tweaked R600 cores that are almost a year old tech?

And by "1 year" you mean ~6 months?




and by "1 year" you mean "a year". I think he was referring to around or coming up on 1 year. Please take into consideration how making small corrections like that reads when you post, you may give off the wrong impression of the type of person you are, thanks.


As for the original comment. 600 does seem like a bit much, but check out some of the OC GX2 review...talking like 60% increase on same games...and thats with original day 1 drivers and a q6600 processor. I think we have yet to see the maximum potential of this card, we're only a few hours in so give it some time, its still coming out with amazing results!
 

error8

Diamond Member
Nov 28, 2007
3,204
0
76
It is a fast card indeed, but it doesn't really bring anything new over 8800 series. And it's quite a bit overpriced. I remember when the 8800 GTX was released, my eyes bled when I was reading the reviews. It was such a fantastic videocard. It was the first to support DirectX 10 and also brought huge performance improvement over the last generation. It was very expensive, but it worth every penny.

And now, after a year and a half, Nvidia brings us 9800 GX2, which has some performance over the GTX but it doesn't seems that new, that extraordinary. You still can't play Crysis maxed out with it (don't shoot me for saying this :) ).
 

Aberforth

Golden Member
Oct 12, 2006
1,707
1
0
*yawn* :thumbsdown: I've decided to buy an 16gb iPhone, atleast I get to play with SDK without TDR errors. I am already quite unsatisfied with my GTX SLI (which was the big mistake to buy), why am I putting through all this? there is no way in the world I will ever buy this.
 

Aberforth

Golden Member
Oct 12, 2006
1,707
1
0
Originally posted by: nRollo
Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Ripoff cards. $600 for old tech.

What does that make 3870 X2s and 3870s? They are just tweaked R600 cores that are almost a year old tech?

yes they are, it was in development since the first model of abacus was introduced.
 

Munky

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2005
9,372
0
76
Originally posted by: Rusin
Well 9800 GX2 is around 40% faster and 40% more expensive than HD3870 X2. 9800 GX2 also consumes less wattage under load and is more quiet.

9800 GX2 is also better overclocker than HD3870 X2; 20-25% increase for core and shaders is realistic with GX2; How many HD3870 X2's hit 1000MHz with reference cooler and without volt mods?

I don't think that they are ripoff's [I still wouldn't buy them..].

Actually, from the reviews I've seen the gx2 consumes more power than a 3870x2, and is louder too.
 

djnsmith7

Platinum Member
Apr 13, 2004
2,612
1
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That card is a joke at that price. This card is worth $399 at best, & that's with proven driver support, which obviously isn't even out yet. So I would hold onto your money for now. I don't think I need to remind anyone what happened when they rushed out to buy the 7950GX2.

The one good thing I have to say about Evga & this card is they've extended the Step Up to 120 days. I doubt that will be enough time for this card to drop $200, but it might drop some.

OTOH, ATI has the right idea with pricing the 3870X2 right at $400 (Newegg). Now that's more like it for a dual card setup.
 

legoman666

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2003
3,628
1
0
Originally posted by: Sutareteiru
Originally posted by: legoman666
Originally posted by: nRollo
Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Ripoff cards. $600 for old tech.

What does that make 3870 X2s and 3870s? They are just tweaked R600 cores that are almost a year old tech?

And by "1 year" you mean ~6 months?

and by "1 year" you mean "a year". I think he was referring to around or coming up on 1 year. Please take into consideration how making small corrections like that reads when you post, you may give off the wrong impression of the type of person you are, thanks.

nevermind
 

nitromullet

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2004
9,031
36
91
I wouldn't go so far as to call this card a ripoff, it's a lot of card for $600. The 3870 X2 is also a lot of card for $430...

My main concern is with both NV and ATI's multi-gpu tech... In the past few weeks I've owned a 3870X2 and an 8800GT SLI rig, and I wasn't overly impressed with my experiences with either of them. At this point I've opted to run an 8800GTX probably until a new, faster, single core is introduced.

Now, all of my opinions/observations here are subjective, but they are based on what I experienced with my own rig built with my own money.

Benchmarks aside, the X2 performs almost identically to an 8800GTX except when it comes to increasing AA to 8x... The only two games that I had installed with all three cards that will run with 8x AA are HL2:EP2 and WoW. EP2 runs great on both the GTX and the X2 at 8xAA. WoW runs pretty sluggish on the X2, and runs fine on the GTX.

The X2 and the GTX perform similar in Crysis. They really feel identical. In Crysis, it is also easy to tell if a multi-gpu setup is working because r_displayinfo = 1 flag will indicate "MGPU".

Only the 8800GT SLI really offered a noticeable performance boost in Crysis over the other two. Definitely the smoothest gameplay of the bunch. Still playable on the other two at the same settings.

The GTX is my choice for UT3 between 8800GT SLI and the GTX. The SLI setup performed identical to a single 8800GT, and the highest AA I could run smoothly was 2x. 4x caused hitching every time a new weapon was picked up or when any sort of action was going on... Really difficult to play at 4x, at 2x it was fine and looked decent. I'm guessing that SLI wasn't working properly.

The GTX is also my choice for WoW by a longshot as well. It's the only card out of the bunch that allows 8x SStrAA... In WoW again, the 8800GT SLI setup performed absolutely no different than a single 8800GT. The GT and GT SLI setup were playable with 4x SStrAA, but frames plummeted down to the single digits when 8xSStrAA was enabled. The 3870X2 was somewhat different in WoW. The frames appeared to be decent with 8x SSAAA, but the game felt very choppy. This would immediately go away with 4x SSAAA.

For the two games that didn't appear to work any different with two 8800GTs over one, this is what I tried to get SLI working...

Forceware 169.25 (WHQL for 8-series from NVIDIA)
169.44 (beta - from EVGA, available on nvidia.com as well)
174.31 (modified .inf drivers from start64.com)

The two 169.xx drivers allowed SLI to be enabled, but showed "single GPU" as the NVIDIA preferred option for every single game. I was able to select different options though, and Crysis showed an improvement over a single GPU with both 169.xx drivers. For WoW and UT3, selecting single, SFR, AFR, or AFR2 made absolutely zero difference in game play.

The 174.31 (not actually officially released for the 8-series) worked the best. The preferred NVIDIA option for SLI actually wasn't "single GPU". I don't know what is was because it is just listed as "NVIDIA preferred", but Crysis showed that SLI was working and gameplay reflected this as well. WoW and UT3 still showed no differences between Preferred, Single, SFR, AFR, and AFR2.

Driver sweeper was run in between each driver install, so this whole process took me hours to do. The whole process was pretty much a pain in the ass, and not very rewarding. I spent way more time installing drivers and mucking around with the control panel and nHancer than I did anything else, so I got rid of it and went with a single 8800GTX. It works, but my whole experience with the X2 and 8800GT leaves me somewhat concerned for the future of multi-gpu.

Edit: I almost forgot... Yeah, I installed KB936710 and KB945149 as well.

So, for the moment, I just can't bring myself to even consider the 9800GX2... Sorry for the overly long (and somewhat rambling) post, but I figured I'd add some context to my opinion.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: munky
Originally posted by: Rusin
Well 9800 GX2 is around 40% faster and 40% more expensive than HD3870 X2. 9800 GX2 also consumes less wattage under load and is more quiet.

9800 GX2 is also better overclocker than HD3870 X2; 20-25% increase for core and shaders is realistic with GX2; How many HD3870 X2's hit 1000MHz with reference cooler and without volt mods?

I don't think that they are ripoff's [I still wouldn't buy them..].

Actually, from the reviews I've seen the gx2 consumes more power than a 3870x2, and is louder too.

Hardocps pegs the 3870x2 at ~30 more watts at load than the 9800Gx2.
 

Rusin

Senior member
Jun 25, 2007
573
0
0
Originally posted by: munky
Originally posted by: Rusin
Well 9800 GX2 is around 40% faster and 40% more expensive than HD3870 X2. 9800 GX2 also consumes less wattage under load and is more quiet.

9800 GX2 is also better overclocker than HD3870 X2; 20-25% increase for core and shaders is realistic with GX2; How many HD3870 X2's hit 1000MHz with reference cooler and without volt mods?

I don't think that they are ripoff's [I still wouldn't buy them..].

Actually, from the reviews I've seen the gx2 consumes more power than a 3870x2, and is louder too.
You have been pretty selective then :).

4 tests say that 9800 GX2 consumes more:
Hardwarezone
PcPerspective
Neoseeker
Hexus

5 tests say that HD3870 X2 consumes more:
Hothardware
Tom's Hardware
TechPowerup
Tweaktown
HardOCP

Have found three sites that compared noise levels and all said that 9800 GX2 is more quiet under load situations; one said that HD3870 X2 is more quiet on idle:
Tweaktown
Tom's Hardware
Techpowerup






I have found only three tests that say something about noise levels.
 

Dashel

Senior member
Nov 5, 2003
226
0
71
So yeah these cards always debut at 5-600 bucks dont they? Not sure why thats causing such concern. I want to know what cards will now be dropping in price though :) Will the 8800 GTX drop?
 

Tempered81

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2007
6,374
1
81
Yawn. I've decided to goto the beach and spend money on booze & women. However, a gt200 or r700 release might have diverted my "attention" from chasing tail.


:thumbsdown: for this card.

$260 for two 9600GT 512's in SLI, and it's nearly as fast as this $600 boat.

edit: 9600gt for 130 or less after MIR and code @ newegg in hotdeals.

edit: 8800gt sli = exact same crysis 1920x1200 FPS as gx2:
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/...wzLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
 

cliftonite

Diamond Member
Jul 15, 2001
6,900
63
91
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: hooflung
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: nanaki333
wasn't this the same exact reception the 3870x2 got when it came out? too much money, i can get 2x 3870 for cheaper, blah blah blah. i'm sure it's the same as when the 7950gx2 came out too, but i can't remember anything specific from that time.

Anytime a new king of the hill comes out the same whiners are out in force crying about the cost. It is amusing to watch their futility at convincing the world that a 600 dollar card isnt worth it. Then the next round comes out and we start all over. Obviously they are failing becuase people are buying these cards at sufficient levels for the manufacturers to keep spitting them out.

Same people? I rarely ever put a comment up for any article. I rarely spend time in the hardware forum. Try again.

Yes the same group of whiners. You fit in that club rather well I will add.



Kind of like the whiners who whine that Blu-Ray players are too expensive? ;)
 

nitromullet

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2004
9,031
36
91
Originally posted by: jaredpace
Yawn. I've decided to goto the beach and spend money on booze & women. However, a gt200 or r700 release might have diverted my "attention" from chasing tail.


:thumbsdown: for this card.

$260 for two 9600GT 512's in SLI, and it's nearly as fast as this $600 boat.

Chasing tail beats chasing fps anyday, but us married guys gotta chase something... So, for me it's fps...
 

dadach

Senior member
Nov 27, 2005
204
0
76
Originally posted by: cliftonite
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: hooflung
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: nanaki333
wasn't this the same exact reception the 3870x2 got when it came out? too much money, i can get 2x 3870 for cheaper, blah blah blah. i'm sure it's the same as when the 7950gx2 came out too, but i can't remember anything specific from that time.

Anytime a new king of the hill comes out the same whiners are out in force crying about the cost. It is amusing to watch their futility at convincing the world that a 600 dollar card isnt worth it. Then the next round comes out and we start all over. Obviously they are failing becuase people are buying these cards at sufficient levels for the manufacturers to keep spitting them out.

Same people? I rarely ever put a comment up for any article. I rarely spend time in the hardware forum. Try again.

Yes the same group of whiners. You fit in that club rather well I will add.



Kind of like the whiners who whine that Blu-Ray players are too expensive? ;)

so when is HDDVD format giving it another go?
 

Martimus

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2007
4,490
157
106
Originally posted by: jaredpace
Yawn. I've decided to goto the beach and spend money on booze & women. However, a gt200 or r700 release might have diverted my "attention" from chasing tail.


:thumbsdown: for this card.

$260 for two 9600GT 512's in SLI, and it's nearly as fast as this $600 boat.

Awesome, where did you see 9600GT's for $130? I want to pick one of those up at that price! (As long as it isn't a large mail in rebate. I still haven't gotten my last one from 6 months ago :( )
 

hooflung

Golden Member
Dec 31, 2004
1,190
1
0
Originally posted by: nRollo
Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Ripoff cards. $600 for old tech.

What does that make 3870 X2s and 3870s? They are just tweaked R600 cores that are almost a year old tech?

Since AMD moved to their new naming mechanisms and marketing for their 'revised' cores they are not marketing it as a new generation of technology that has historically been set. AMD has not put out current tech as NEW generation tech. They have not played around with their core names to reflect a NEW core.

RV520 = X1800

RV580 = X1900

RV600 = HD2900

RV670 = HD387/50



Nvidia impressed the world with the 8 series. Then they revised it and made the NV92 and kept the 8 moniker and release cards that obsolete its price point brothren confusing the market saturating the market with 'we haven't found the sweet spot yet' products.

Then they take the same chip, cripple it, and pray that they can get away with claiming an 8 series is a 9 series. the 9600GT is finally birthed and we find out it IS truely the sweet spot of the arch. It can run with its big brother, the 8800GT, with less actual hardware.

They wanted to capitalize on smacking two 8800GTS 512s together on one board and calling that a 9 series too. Not only that, but while they are pushing SLI for years now it is finally worthy to be viable and once again they start obsoleting their own product lines because to compete with the single card market they have made SLI'ing two inferior cards better price/perf wise than its flagship.

You know what that smacks of to me? Laziness. Pure and simple. They want to be the rock stars so they keep tweeking what they have because AMD hasn't rivaled them at the big wig yet. All the while VLIW is being adopted, and even HD2600XTs are improving in speed for FREE with each driver revision thanks to AMD's driver dilligence.

Talk about ironic.



 

nefariouscaine

Golden Member
Dec 4, 2006
1,669
1
81
Anyone else surprised there aren't any OC version cards released just yet - that makes me wonder something. I'm kinda waiting to see what the next refresh is - my 8800GTX is nearly worthless (not really just sub $300) but it still keeps up with most of my games. I can't say that $600 is insane - what did the GTX release at??? $500-600 IIRC... not the first time we've done this and won't be the last.

Early adopters are going to generally pay a premium - this is only a general rule - some times its lower at release as markets get bumped up.

Nvidia is out to make money on this card and I can't see it being exactly cheap to produce
 

Cookie Monster

Diamond Member
May 7, 2005
5,161
32
86
Originally posted by: hooflung
Since AMD moved to their new naming mechanisms and marketing for their 'revised' cores they are not marketing it as a new generation of technology that has historically been set. AMD has not put out current tech as NEW generation tech. They have not played around with their core names to reflect a NEW core.

RV520 = X1800

RV580 = X1900

RV600 = HD2900

RV670 = HD387/50



Nvidia impressed the world with the 8 series. Then they revised it and made the NV92 and kept the 8 moniker and release cards that obsolete its price point brothren confusing the market saturating the market with 'we haven't found the sweet spot yet' products.

Then they take the same chip, cripple it, and pray that they can get away with claiming an 8 series is a 9 series. the 9600GT is finally birthed and we find out it IS truely the sweet spot of the arch. It can run with its big brother, the 8800GT, with less actual hardware.

They wanted to capitalize on smacking two 8800GTS 512s together on one board and calling that a 9 series too. Not only that, but while they are pushing SLI for years now it is finally worthy to be viable and once again they start obsoleting their own product lines because to compete with the single card market they have made SLI'ing two inferior cards better price/perf wise than its flagship.

You know what that smacks of to me? Laziness. Pure and simple. They want to be the rock stars so they keep tweeking what they have because AMD hasn't rivaled them at the big wig yet. All the while VLIW is being adopted, and even HD2600XTs are improving in speed for FREE with each driver revision thanks to AMD's driver dilligence.

Talk about ironic.

Erm, since when did nVIDIA say the 9 series was a "new generation of tech"? What they are doing is JUST like what AMD/ATi has done. AMD/ATi decided to use the RV670 and market is as their next generation series (just that they were much more earlier) Why? mostly because of marketing reasons. We all know that the RV670 is pretty much a full fledged R600 core @ 55nm. Well same goes for nVIDIA with its G80 @ 65nm aka G92.

Does it matter what they use for their GPU codenames? there is no rule involved, hell they could name their next gen GPU core with the codename "omgwtfbbq" for all we care. :confused:

I disagree with most of your points because
a) people just say you can "SLi" inferior cards, well you need a SLi board to to that. Add in extra $$$ for buying one while the GX2 works on everybody's favorite P35/X38 boards.
b) SLi was always viable to enthusiasts that wanted the best. Dont forget SLi isnt for everybody. Its a niche market afterall
c) Both camps have been improving with each driver release. And i have no idea where you got the idea that VLIW is being adopted.
d) Whats wrong with tweaking what they have? not many companies can afford to use its architecture for one generation and then start anew each time i.e bring out new tech. Not even intel is willing to do such a daunting task. You dont need to fix something thats not broken. But having said that they aren't sitting on their laurels doing nothing. What we are seeing right now from nVIDIA is just another business decision. They dont see the need for new generation GPU yet, and are saving alot of R&D costs because they still see alot of potential with the G92/G8x architecture, and this is mostly fueled by the lackluster competition from the other camp.

Id think consumers would be happy that nVIDIA would actually let SLied mid range cards to give its flagship a run for it money.

edit - I guess people just whine about everything. :D
 

imported_Shaq

Senior member
Sep 24, 2004
731
0
0
Do any of the reviews run on PCI-E 1.1 mobo's? Every one I have looked at is 790 and X38. I want to see if it runs on a P35 if it will be slower due to less PCI-E lanes. Why is Crysis limited to 45fps no matter the res on AT's review?