9800 Pro ($170 or 6800 $270ish)?

[imported_tgenius]

Hey guys.. I bought the ATI 9800 Pro 128MB from Bestbuy and was wondering what is the opinion of the 9800 Pro versus a REGULAR 6800? They are about the same in performance, but the price premium is about 100 bucks for the "improved" doom3 performance. Doom isn't the center of my life, but I would like to know if with a P4 3.2 gig and 2 GB RAM if the 9800 Pro in 1024 can hold its own versus the 6800? All opinions are welcomed... no flames please

 

[Matthias99]

The 6800 will be faster -- but is it worth $100 more? I'd say no, but others will say "YES, OF COURSE!". Look at the benchmarks (which may require waiting a few more weeks for more thorough Doom3 numbers) and then decide.

 

[Merlynn]

when that 6800 hits 250 I'm all over that

 

[Delorian]

Both are good deals IMO but until the price gouging stops, my moneys on/for the 9800 pro!

 

[imported_tgenius]

realistically.. this is my last video upgrade until the Dell 400sc's bring PCI Express I dunno if they will eventually update to a board that supports it. Regardless, I sold my old GF4 ti4200 128mb for 50 bucks, so this 9800 cost me about $125 after everything is said and done. I hear the 9800s can be flashed to XL models which give them about 10 percent more performance.... how reliable is that on the Retail 9800 Pros?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: tgenius
Hey guys.. I bought the ATI 9800 Pro 128MB from Bestbuy and was wondering what is the opinion of the 9800 Pro versus a REGULAR 6800? They are about the same in performance, but the price premium is about 100 bucks for the "improved" doom3 performance. Doom isn't the center of my life, but I would like to know if with a P4 3.2 gig and 2 GB RAM if the 9800 Pro in 1024 can hold its own versus the 6800? All opinions are welcomed... no flames please

You're dreaming if you think a 9800Pro offers "about the same performance" as a 6800.

The benchmarks on this site have the 6800 beating a 9800XT in 23/25 benchmarks, and 17 of those at 20% or more. When you consider the XT is 10%> faster than the 9800P, I think it's pretty reasonable to say it would have beat the 9800Pro by 30% in those 17/25 benches.

Before you start saying, "I can OC the 9800P to XT levels and make up that 10% so I'm only 20% slower", bear in mind I've OCd my 6800 pretty far on occasion as well.

Is 30% more performance worth $100? To me it is, and anyone who has bought an Ultra card ever has paid an additional $100 for a LOT less difference.

 

[Pete]

Yeah, a 6800 will be noticably faster than a 9800P in most games--especially in Doom 3, where its 24 (or possibly even 32) zops per second will stack up pretty nicely to the 9800's 8. A $200 9800P might be a better value than a $300 6800, but that only matters if the 9800P will provide the framerates you want, so start reading reviews for benchmarks of the games you play.

 

[imported_tgenius]

It's $170 9800P Honestly, I don't game very much, so I just can't see myself blowing that much money on a card. The net on this would be about $125 as I sold my ti4200 to a buddy for $50. $125 for a card that should do decent (not phenomenal) isn't too bad, and this card is one generation newer than my old ti4200. I know what you guys are saying.. but in this case $100 isn't justified.. if it was $50.. I think I could convince myself.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: tgenius
Hey guys.. I bought the ATI 9800 Pro 128MB from Bestbuy and was wondering what is the opinion of the 9800 Pro versus a REGULAR 6800? They are about the same in performance, but the price premium is about 100 bucks for the "improved" doom3 performance. Doom isn't the center of my life, but I would like to know if with a P4 3.2 gig and 2 GB RAM if the 9800 Pro in 1024 can hold its own versus the 6800? All opinions are welcomed... no flames please

You're dreaming if you think a 9800Pro offers "about the same performance" as a 6800.

The benchmarks on this site have the 6800 beating a 9800XT in 23/25 benchmarks, and 17 of those at 20% or more. When you consider the XT is 10%> faster than the 9800P, I think it's pretty reasonable to say it would have beat the 9800Pro by 30% in those 17/25 benches.

Before you start saying, "I can OC the 9800P to XT levels and make up that 10% so I'm only 20% slower", bear in mind I've OCd my 6800 pretty far on occasion as well.

Is 30% more performance worth $100? To me it is, and anyone who has bought an Ultra card ever has paid an additional $100 for a LOT less difference.

IF you could really get 30% improvement i'd also agree . . . however the performance delta - overall between the 9800xt and 6800 is overstated by you.

Is 20%-25% worth $100; i'd say no.

 

[imported_tgenius]

thank you apoppin.. I mean.. cmon man.. that $100 you can buy a gamecube or a GBA or 2/3 of a PS2/Xbox (I have all of them so does me no good ) But these framerates are like a frickin pissing contest!

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: tgenius
thank you apoppin.. I mean.. cmon man.. that $100 you can buy a gamecube or a GBA or 2/3 of a PS2/Xbox (I have all of them so does me no good ) But these framerates are like a frickin pissing contest!

Don't thank him too much. The numbers I threw out are pretty easy to justify on this very site.
Like I said, the Leadtek 6800NU was 20%> in 17/25 games in this review:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2113

If you want to see if the 9800XT is 10% faster than a 9800 Pro at 12X10 and 16X12 4X8X, you have to go to another site, but:
http://www20.graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030930/radeon_9800-15.html

I will concede that the 9800Pro is usually 5-10% behind the 9800XT at these settings, but that still makes it "usually 25-30%" not "20-25%". Whether that much performance is worth $100 to you, I guess that depends on what kind of free cash you have.

I think Doom 3 is going to smack the 9800Pro down hard though, it has the triple whammy of ATI Open GL, 128MB, and 8 pipes working against it. Notice how in Hs review they noted the 12 pipe config hurt the X800Pro big time? And they used the 256MB 9800XT? I didn't think the numbers for that were even playable, I think the 9800Pro is going to be out of luck.

 

[GeneralGrievous]

The 9800 XT can do Doom 3 at 1024x768 at get around 50 fps, more if you overclock. I'd estimate that the 6800 would have at least a 50% performance advantage. You can likely do 1025x768 with AA/AF and get the same 50 fps or so, maybe a bit less.

HL2, on the other hand, looks to be much closer between the 2 cards.

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/digest3d/0604/itogi-video-hl2-wxp-aaa.html

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous
The 9800 XT can do Doom 3 at 1024x768 at get around 50 fps, more if you overclock. I'd estimate that the 6800 would have at least a 50% performance advantage. You can likely do 1025x768 with AA/AF and get the same 50 fps or so, maybe a bit less.

HL2, on the other hand, looks to be much closer between the 2 cards.

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/digest3d/0604/itogi-video-hl2-wxp-aaa.html

What about Wallet Raider?!?!



BTW- I can never open that damn Xbit page. It must get hammered on.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: tgenius
thank you apoppin.. I mean.. cmon man.. that $100 you can buy a gamecube or a GBA or 2/3 of a PS2/Xbox (I have all of them so does me no good ) But these framerates are like a frickin pissing contest!

HAHA. Keep in mind that apoppin was just in your position and he bought a 9800XT. Rollo was basically in the same position as well, and he bought a 6800NU, so take what they say with a grain of salt.

My opinion is that the 9800PRO will become a doorstop once DoomIII and HL2 are released. It's not much faster than my 9700PRO which was originally purchased almost two years ago.

If DoomIII is what you want, don't consider anything but the newest nVidia cards. Carmack is an nVidia "fanboi" and basically designed the game engine around an nVidia graphics card.

 

[imported_tgenius]

the 9800 pro is a decent card.. I mean.. think about it this way: When I bought my ti4200.. the 4600 was on the market.. why didn't I buy the 4600? I couldn't justify the extra $$.. same case here

 

[vshah]

a 9800 will definately be playable in D3 on your system at 1024, probably with a little aa/af. as for holding its own vs the 6800, thats subjective, you're probably better off waiting for more benchies to come out.

-Vivan

 

[vshah]

Originally posted by: Rollo


BTW- I can never open that damn Xbit page. It must get hammered on.

same here. ARGH!

Originally posted by: tgenius
It's $170 9800P Honestly, I don't game very much, so I just can't see myself blowing that much money on a card. The net on this would be about $125 as I sold my ti4200 to a buddy for $50. $125 for a card that should do decent (not phenomenal) isn't too bad, and this card is one generation newer than my old ti4200. I know what you guys are saying.. but in this case $100 isn't justified.. if it was $50.. I think I could convince myself.

it seems as if you've already made up your mind then. why bother asking us?

-Vivan

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: tgenius
the 9800 pro is a decent card.. I mean.. think about it this way: When I bought my ti4200.. the 4600 was on the market.. why didn't I buy the 4600? I couldn't justify the extra $$.. same case here

Based on what we've seen so far, the 4200 will probably perform fairly close to a R9800 in DoomIII, albeit without any of the "DX9" features. I would keep the 4200 until you can afford something more serious than a 9800PRO. It's not going to cut it for the next gen games IMO.

 

[imported_tgenius]

heh I don't think you understand.. I can afford an ultra if I really wanted to... I just can't justify spending my G35 Car payment (500) on a frickin video card that will be obsolete in 2 yrs.. I don't play very many computer games anymore... if the 6800 were on the low side of 250... I'd return my 9800 RIGHT NOW.. but its hovering around 280...by the way.. I still haven't opened the 9800 packaging yet.. cmon guys.. convince me otherwise

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: tgenius
cmon guys.. convince me otherwise

Ummm...maybe this???

In case you haven't noticed, just about everyone in this thread has tried to convince you otherwise, but you've ignored us. Maybe some hard numbers will open your eyes a little. ATi is not the way to go for DoomIII, or any other game based on its engine. Going with a last-gen card will only make matters worse.

 

[imported_tgenius]

SickBeast.. I appreciate the Doom3 Benchmarks.. I've seen them before. I guess my problem is:

I have the P4 3.2 with the 2 gig of ram. I also have a Dell 2001FP 20 inch monitor. These are relatively high end for their own parts.. maybe a GT might make more sense after all.. I'm just concerned its going to be outdated pretty quickly, that's all.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: tgenius
the 9800 pro is a decent card.. I mean.. think about it this way: When I bought my ti4200.. the 4600 was on the market.. why didn't I buy the 4600? I couldn't justify the extra $$.. same case here

No, it's a totally different case here. Previously you had the choice of 3 different GF4 cards based on the SAME architecture. Comparing NV40 to R350 is ludicrous; they're in totally different leagues. If you're going to make the comparison it should be to say something like "I want the 6800U, but I can only afford the 6800NU"; otherwise it's nothing like your previous conundrum.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: tgenius
SickBeast.. I appreciate the Doom3 Benchmarks.. I've seen them before. I guess my problem is:

I have the P4 3.2 with the 2 gig of ram. I also have a Dell 2001FP 20 inch monitor. These are relatively high end for their own parts.. maybe a GT might make more sense after all.. I'm just concerned its going to be outdated pretty quickly, that's all.

Your P4 3.2 will be outdated just as quickly, and to not have a decent videocard to go along with it is just silly IMO. The 9800PRO is a good card and you got a great deal on it. It will perform just fine in 90% of the games that will be out in the next few months. DoomIII will be a serious problem for it, that's basically my point. And you can basically forget about 1600x1200 on your nice Dell monitor too for that matter, even if it's only UT2004. I dunno; you're basically stuck with a tough decision. I think the 6800NU is the way to go in your situation. Even then you won't be running 1600x1200 in DoomIII though, which is the optimal resolution of your monitor. That's why I suggested waiting. Using the 9800PRO in the interm isn't such a bad option, but it's basically $170 out the window if that's what you have planned.

 

[imported_tgenius]

SickBeast.. I took your advice.. I'm gonna use the 9800 Pro in the interim ($125 for the card net should hold me over for a couple months) and then look to the big boys next year Thanks man!

 

[Gurck]

You have 2 gigs of ram and you're worried about $100? If you can afford >$250 for like a 2% performance increase... why not get two 6800Us and run them SLI?