9600GT VS 8800GS VS 8800GT

[Lithan]

You said not one page ago, "You CANT run crysis on high on a 320meg card"

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: Lithan
Azn.
1. Because I was proving something that was said before wrong... something unrelated to the 19" LCD. Someone had suggested that the memory bandwidth was the only thing preventing the 8800gs from running AA.
2. "Come shader intensive games? it will fail miserably compared to 3850 or 8800gs. Come texture heavy games? it will fail miserably with 8800gs." You just keep waiting for that day when you can brag about running 10fps @ 800x600 instead of only 8fps. You keep preaching about how the 8800gs that barely runs modern games at acceptable resolutions will have no problems running these imaginary future games.
3. Your raw performance #'s amount to less benchmarks than I can count on one hand which you've cherry picked out of 20+ different benchmarks between the cards as the 10-15% of situations that the 8800gs can hold its own.

1. No you just been arguing with yourself how it's better for higher resolutions. From the beginning of the thread I've recommended the O.P 8800gs or 9600gt but I mentioned how I got some crazy overclocks out of it.

2. Now you are blowing stuff out of proportion. From the makers of oblivion there would be much more shader intensive game called "Fallout" coming up this year or early next year which would prove this theory and many more games to come.

3. No that's the average of many modern games. Not cherry picked. If you have a problem you should email computerbase.de web master.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: Lithan
I was responding to this.

"Without AA 320mb GTS should be fine all the way up to 1920x1200. "
I dont consider <10fps average "fine".

Most games it's fine. No point "cherry picking" games to sway in your favor.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Lithan
You said not one page ago, "You CANT run crysis on high on a 320meg card"

Right, and I just said that all modern games except for Crysis run amazing at 1920x1200 on my card. Perhaps you should read my replies before simply responding. :light:

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: Lithan
You said not one page ago, "You CANT run crysis on high on a 320meg card"

Maybe not on high settings but can it a 9600gt run it high settings? :disgust:

 

[Lithan]

Benches @ 1280x1024

http://img3.pconline.com.cn/pc...3_9600GT_COH_thumb.jpg
9600gt by 25%

http://img3.pconline.com.cn/pc...3_9600GT_COJ_thumb.jpg
9600gt by 20%

http://img3.pconline.com.cn/pc...13_9600GT_LP_thumb.jpg
9600gt by 10%

2 games were tied, 8800gs won a single game by ~4%

That's a representative average and even in that case it's restricted to the lowest tested resolution: which undoubtably favors the 8800gs.

 

[Lithan]

Not at frames I'd play... but you said that it did. "just fine". Hence, I was demonstrating that your reasoning was provably wrong.

 

[Lithan]

"384mb is still fine for Crysis @ high settings @ 1600x1200.

http://www.3dnews.ru/_imgdata/img/2008/02/26/75453.jpg
crysis 1600x1200 high settings vram usage

http://www.3dnews.ru/_imgdata/img/2008/02/26/75452.jpg
crysis 1280x1024 high settings vram usage

Yeah it's because of AA and post processing within the last few years. 4xAA is like blowing up your resolution by 2 notches.

If 1280x1024 4xAA, it would be equivalent @ 1900x1200 with no AA.

Without AA 320mb GTS should be fine all the way up to 1920x1200. "

You need to start reading what you post before you accuse me of cherry picking examples. I wasn't using the fps of crysis high to prove anything about the 9600gt. I was demonstrating that your claims that 320megs of memory is plenty for Crysis high were wrong. You said that according to your logic, 320meg GTS runs 1920x1200 crysis high just fine (so long as AA is off). I showed a benchmark. It runs under 10 fps. That isn't just fine. I proved your claims about bottlenecks and card performance wrong. It says nothing about the 9600gt except that your expectations of its performance are quite probably undependable.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: Lithan
Benches @ 1280x1024

http://img3.pconline.com.cn/pc...3_9600GT_COH_thumb.jpg
9600gt by 25%

http://img3.pconline.com.cn/pc...3_9600GT_COJ_thumb.jpg
9600gt by 20%

http://img3.pconline.com.cn/pc...13_9600GT_LP_thumb.jpg
9600gt by 10%

2 games were tied, 8800gs won a single game by ~4%

That's a representative average and even in that case it's restricted to the lowest tested resolution: which undoubtably favors the 8800gs.

No point in "cherry picking" your games where pixel fillrate and memory bandwidth wins over texture and SP.

Currently 64SP is the sweet spot but not for the future. My whole basis of the argument over this thread is that 8800gs would outlast 9600gt in the long run.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Lithan
Benches @ 1280x1024

http://img3.pconline.com.cn/pc...3_9600GT_COH_thumb.jpg
9600gt by 25%

http://img3.pconline.com.cn/pc...3_9600GT_COJ_thumb.jpg
9600gt by 20%

http://img3.pconline.com.cn/pc...13_9600GT_LP_thumb.jpg
9600gt by 10%

2 games were tied, 8800gs won a single game by ~4%

That's a representative average and even in that case it's restricted to the lowest tested resolution: which undoubtably favors the 8800gs.

You're neglecting the fact that the 9600GT may be running much newer (and better) drivers than the 8800GS. The GS is probably running drivers that came out in December 2007, whereas the GT uses drivers released over the past week. It's criminal, but NV is doing it to make their newest offerings look better.

 

[Lithan]

That runs contrary to every product release in recorded history sickbeast. Creative reasoning though.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Azn
Currently 64SP is the sweet spot but not for the future. My whole basis of the argument over this thread is that 8800gs would outlast 9600gt in the long run.

TBH that approach is silly. The 8800GS is perfectly fine for all games on the market now (except for Crysis), but they are not going to be suited for future games (which will include countless titles based on the Crysis engine).

The same goes for the 9600GT, the 8800GT, and pretty much any other GPU on the market currently. There is nothing out there that I would consider 'future proof' at this point. Just buy what you need to run the games you play.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: Lithan
"384mb is still fine for Crysis @ high settings @ 1600x1200.

http://www.3dnews.ru/_imgdata/img/2008/02/26/75453.jpg
crysis 1600x1200 high settings vram usage

http://www.3dnews.ru/_imgdata/img/2008/02/26/75452.jpg
crysis 1280x1024 high settings vram usage

Yeah it's because of AA and post processing within the last few years. 4xAA is like blowing up your resolution by 2 notches.

If 1280x1024 4xAA, it would be equivalent @ 1900x1200 with no AA.

Without AA 320mb GTS should be fine all the way up to 1920x1200. "

You need to start reading what you post before you accuse me of cherry picking examples. I wasn't using the fps of crysis high to prove anything about the 9600gt. I was demonstrating that your claims that 320megs of memory is plenty for Crysis high were wrong. You said that according to your logic, 320meg GTS runs 1920x1200 crysis high just fine (so long as AA is off). I showed a benchmark. It runs under 10 fps. That isn't just fine. I proved your claims about bottlenecks and card performance wrong. It says nothing about the 9600gt except that your expectations of its performance are quite probably undependable.

I think you need to read.

I never said 320mb 8800gts can run crysis @ high settings @ 1920x1200. I said your 9600gt can't run it on high settings either with 512mb vram. :light:

 

[Lithan]

Originally posted by: Azn


No point in "cherry picking" your games where pixel fillrate and memory bandwidth wins over texture and SP.

Currently 64SP is the sweet spot but not for the future. My whole basis of the argument over this thread is that 8800gs would outlast 9600gt in the long run.

Even if that is the case, why do you think that 8800gs will be able to run these games when it's a low end card from the current gen. Your logic is this. I will buy a card that can only run min settings on modern games because future games that are guaranteed to be more taxing will run better on it than on X card.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Lithan
That runs contrary to every product release in recorded history sickbeast. Creative reasoning though.

NV is only competing with themselves on the high-end. It makes sense in a way for them to make their new stuff look better using drivers.

The 174 drivers can only be installed on the 9600GT and the new 9800GTX/GX2 cards. For 8800-series cards you need to hack the .inf file.

People are noticing a 20% boost from the new drivers so there is a chance that the differences you're pointing out are in fact due to them to some extent.

 

[Lithan]

""384mb is still fine for Crysis @ high settings @ 1600x1200... Without AA 320mb GTS should be fine all the way up to 1920x1200. "

English much?

 

[Lithan]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Lithan
That runs contrary to every product release in recorded history sickbeast. Creative reasoning though.

NV is only competing with themselves on the high-end. It makes sense in a way for them to make their new stuff look better using drivers.

The 174 drivers can only be installed on the 9600GT and the new 9800GTX/GX2 cards. For 8800-series cards you need to hack the .inf file.

People are noticing a 20% boost from the new drivers so there is a chance that the differences you're pointing out are in fact due to them to some extent.

reference this 20% boost?

nevermind I need to get to bed, so I did it myself.

http://www.techarp.com/showart....aspx?artno=519&pgno=3

Thanks for playing though. We have some lovely consolation prizes for you at least. Like me getting bored and leaving. Congratulations.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Azn
Currently 64SP is the sweet spot but not for the future. My whole basis of the argument over this thread is that 8800gs would outlast 9600gt in the long run.

TBH that approach is silly. The 8800GS is perfectly fine for all games on the market now (except for Crysis), but they are not going to be suited for future games (which will include countless titles based on the Crysis engine).

The same goes for the 9600GT, the 8800GT, and pretty much any other GPU on the market currently. There is nothing out there that I would consider 'future proof' at this point. Just buy what you need to run the games you play.

YEah... There's no game I can't run currently on my 19" LCD except crysis @ max detail.

Everyone wants future proof I think 8800gs would prove it in the long run. Fallout is supposed to be extra shader heavy. only time will tell.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Lithan
That runs contrary to every product release in recorded history sickbeast. Creative reasoning though.

NV is only competing with themselves on the high-end. It makes sense in a way for them to make their new stuff look better using drivers.

The 174 drivers can only be installed on the 9600GT and the new 9800GTX/GX2 cards. For 8800-series cards you need to hack the .inf file.

People are noticing a 20% boost from the new drivers so there is a chance that the differences you're pointing out are in fact due to them to some extent.

I'm using 174.74 drivers now.

Look at my review. http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2171730&enterthread=y

I got 3 fps more with crysis @ high settings over driver CD. Go figure.

 

[hans007]

at lower res i'd get the 8800gs because its memory bandwidth wont be as big an issue and its extra shaders will help in games a year or 2 from now.

i personally got a 9600gt since i have a 24" monitor. but if you have say a 19" it would probably be better to get the 8800gs (its usually cheaper too)

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Lithan

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Lithan
That runs contrary to every product release in recorded history sickbeast. Creative reasoning though.

NV is only competing with themselves on the high-end. It makes sense in a way for them to make their new stuff look better using drivers.

The 174 drivers can only be installed on the 9600GT and the new 9800GTX/GX2 cards. For 8800-series cards you need to hack the .inf file.

People are noticing a 20% boost from the new drivers so there is a chance that the differences you're pointing out are in fact due to them to some extent.

reference this 20% boost?

nevermind I need to get to bed, so I did it myself.

http://www.techarp.com/showart....aspx?artno=519&pgno=3

Thanks for playing though. We have some lovely consolation prizes for you at least. Like me getting bored and leaving. Congratulations.

Here's a link

Note that the 169 drivers are the latest WHQL ones for the 8-series, and the 174 ones are WHQL for the 9600GT.

In UT3 it goes from ~53FPS to ~70FPS, so a 32% boost +/- in that case.

 

[Lithan]

"It was particularly bad in Crysis, where it was 12.5% to 15% slower than the older ForceWare 169.28 driver."
"was particularly bad in Crysis, where it was 12.5% to 15% slower than the older"
"particularly bad in Crysis, where it was 12.5% to 15% slower "
"bad in Crysis, where it was 12.5% to 15%"
"bad in Crysis"
"bad"

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: Lithan

Originally posted by: Azn


No point in "cherry picking" your games where pixel fillrate and memory bandwidth wins over texture and SP.

Currently 64SP is the sweet spot but not for the future. My whole basis of the argument over this thread is that 8800gs would outlast 9600gt in the long run.

Even if that is the case, why do you think that 8800gs will be able to run these games when it's a low end card from the current gen. Your logic is this. I will buy a card that can only run min settings on modern games because future games that are guaranteed to be more taxing will run better on it than on X card.

No my logic is this. 2 cards perform about same currently @ max settings in raw performance. When newer titles hit one card will be more faster than the other. :light:

 

[Lithan]

1 game... not included in those benched... grasping... sleep now.

 

[SickBeast]

Here's a link to Crysis framerates nearly doubling with the 174 driver