9/11 responders bill defeated by GOP filibuster

[fskimospy]

You know nothing about me. How can you make that guarantee. Here, I can do it too. I know way more about the VA medical system than you do because I work in the medical field. See how it just doesn't matter?



Point me towards one and enlighten me. I do not take you for your word since you make stupid guarantees and personally attack people you disagree with. And to follow this up, the first responders do have medical care.



That isn't a bill for beheaded people. Beheading is something that is out of the norm. That is an insurance policy. That is like saying we have a bill for drivers who get into car accidents. Or that there is a bill for me because I have life insurance. And why wouldn't first responders get life insurance? I have an office job and have half a million dollars. It costs a few bucks a month.



I wasn't talking about anything in particular, actually. First responders are getting treatment though.



I do. And I also realize I am arguing with an emotional child that prefaces things with "I don't mean to offend..." and then personally attacks people he doesn't agree with.



That is a non sequitur. What the fuck does that have to do with anything? My point was IEDs were never as big of a threat to soldiers as they are in this war and, at one point, made headlines every time one went off because they were out of the norm. Power doesn't matter.

By your logic we should be targeting the more "powerful" killer? So why not use the $7.4 Billion to combat smoking?

I don't believe in your convictions. You've donated nothing - nothing! - to these poor suffering people. You want me to pay for it. Well, I would rather save lives of people who aren't PAID to do a dangerous job.

Your post is extremely confusing, but it's good to see you projecting some of your anger onto me. Getting called stupid repeatedly is probably making you mad, but it's the consequence of having opinions like the ones you do.

A bill for people shot by civilians? I don't even know when it happened, but the VA has offered free medical care for people with service connected disabilities for quite a long time now. That information is freely available to you at the VA's website. It includes free medical care for service connected disabilities along with possible monthly stipends depending on how disabled you are. This is common knowledge.

You are also trying to draw some sort of bizarre comparison with beheading. The reason for additional funding for 9/11 responders is that their medical care costs more. If you die from a bullet or are beheaded, the costs are the same. Do you think that someone is arguing for increased medical benefits because 9/11 made us sadder than most deaths? Because that's certainly not my argument (or any that I've seen here)

I'm just saying that if you're trying to win this argument by bringing up military and VA issues, that's probably a really terrible idea. I have an unfortunately large amount of experience with it.

As I said before, I don't need to hold a bake sale for everything I think is smart policy.

 

[fskimospy]

There is no winning with you. I say we take that $7.4 billion and save tens of thousands of starving children from certain death. You say to take it and provide treatment for a handful of people. Who has more empathy here?

Go pick up a book called "The Hidden Brain." It explains why humans will send thousands of dollars in to save the life of one child, but one send a hundred bucks to save the lives of ten children.

Except I didn't say that. Once again you're having reading comprehension problems. I said if you have kids that need to be saved, lets save both. If we need that extra cash, lets take it from a program that doesn't involve treating sick firefighters.

 

[JSt0rm]

I'm sure you have all seen this picture before. I dont think this firefighter lived as you can see he is going up while everyone else is going down. But look at the expression on his face. Does he look like he expected this to be his day? Fuck no.

 

[kylebisme]

The people sick and dying from the toxic WTC dust deserve compensation because the EPA misled public on 9/11 pollution / White House ordered false assurances on air quality.

 

[JSt0rm]

These guys got out of their truck and ran on foot to the towers. The firefighter in the foreground died that day.

Photo credit: National 911 Memorials Make History | A photo submitted by a Danish businessman who snapped the image from his car on Sept 11, 2001, shows New York firefighter Gary R. Box rushing through the Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel toward Ground Zero. Box, 35, of North Bellmore died at the World Trade Center and this was the last photo taken of him.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

I'm sure you have all seen this picture before. I dont think this firefighter lived as you can see he is going up while everyone else is going down. But look at the expression on his face. Does he look like he expected this to be his day? Fuck no.

No. But a firefighter also doesn't generally expect to die in a fire either...just as a soldier doesn't expect to get shot.

 

[JSt0rm]

No. But a firefighter also doesn't generally expect to die in a fire either...just as a soldier doesn't expect to get shot.

Your position on this issue is pathetic. Although I give you props for at least being the one to argue it. The usual suspects wont touch this thread because they know this hits them deeper then their usual partisan political dissonance.

It's strange but even today I am overwhelm with sadness revisiting these photos.

 

[Deeko]

I mean this as a serious question,

No, you do not.

and I'm not trying to insult you or anyone else.

Yes, you are.

Are you autistic or do you have any autism spectrum disorders? It would readily explain the difficulty you are having here.

Onward with the insult.

I explicitly stated I wasn't trying to insult you

Just because you said it, doesn't make it true. You fully intended to insult his intelligence, and then you did so. Its like saying you aren't trying to kill someone, and then shooting them in the face.

, and I meant it.

No, you did not.

Your viewpoint here is simply baffling, and I'm trying to understand how you came by it.

No, you are not.

Grow up, kid. Being a dishonest person and claiming you aren't doing something, while very clearly doing it, all in an attempt to insult someone on the internet for having a different political view than you is pathetic.

Shape up, sport.

 

[werepossum]

Hate to bring this up, again, but who cares about the threat of a filibuster? Filibusters never actually happen, ever, on anything. Let them fucking stand for days and days and filibuster it. That is the intent of that rule, not "oh we need 60 votes on everything or else they MIGHT" filibuster.

You also have to consider if they did actually do it, there could be some swing votes to pick up just to shut the fuckers up and move on to the next thing.

Previously they blocked it because they didn't want any money going to possible illegals, even though they were there rescuing people and suffering the consequences and now it's because the bill is too high.

$7 billion is less than what we spend every month in Afghanistan FFS. Let's remember it's been 10 years already, if we wait 5 more a lot of these people will be dead. I guess that's what the GOP is counting on...well if we just delay it another couple years, we'll save billions!!!

Just like with the black farmers payout, they stalled the shit forever until many of the plaintiffs were dead or had lost their farms and then tried to call them for false claims - "Well you don't even own a farm!!".

This is some truly sick and twisted stuff my friends.

Since the Senate changed the filibuster rules, merely stating you're going to filibuster IS filibustering.

That rule needs to change; if something is worth standing up against, it's worth actually spending your time and energy on. It's worth putting up your face as the face of opposition.

 

[JSt0rm]

This issue is not politics. Its way beyond that. It was transformed into politics by those who seek power and wealth but it is not political.

 

[jackstar7]

Wait, you think firefighters don't expect to die in fires?

 

[Deeko]

Regardless if you truely believe you werent trying to insult. You were insulting. Anytime people preface what they are saying with "I dont mean x", they do.

Exactly. He knows fully well he was being insulting, and he absolutely intended to do so. That's one thing - although personal attacks are against forum rules, they do happen all the time, especially in P&N.

However, the fact that he keeps insisting he wasn't trying to insult anyone is an outright lie. He is being a dishonest, petulant child, he knows it, you know it, and everyone reading this thread knows it.

 

[fskimospy]

No, you do not.



Yes, you are.



Onward with the insult.



Just because you said it, doesn't make it true. You fully intended to insult his intelligence, and then you did so. Its like saying you aren't trying to kill someone, and then shooting them in the face.



No, you did not.



No, you are not.

Grow up, kid. Being a dishonest person and claiming you aren't doing something, while very clearly doing it, all in an attempt to insult someone on the internet for having a different political view than you is pathetic.

Shape up, sport.

Nice analogies. I don't care what your interpretations are. (And I mean it! Haha)

 

[Deeko]

Nice analogies. I don't care what your interpretations are. (And I mean it! Haha)

Congrats, you actually expressed an honest opinion. I didn't think you had it in you.

 

[fskimospy]

Congrats, you actually expressed an honest opinion. I didn't think you had it in you.

That was a terrible comeback. Shape up,son.

 

[Deeko]

That was a terrible comeback. Shape up,son.

See, that's the thing. I come here for actual discussion on politics and news. You come here to insult people and kick and stomp like a 6 year old girl that's not getting her way in the candy aisle. The fact that you're viewing this as a game of "who had the better comeback" just goes to prove that point.

I'll say again - grow up, kid.

 

[Red Dawn]

So why did they bring it up for a vote again at this point??

Why not bring up for a vote in July when it passed the house?

The simple truth is that the Democrats knew that the bill would not pass at any point this year which is why they never bothered to vote on the bill in the first place. And now they only brought it up as a cheap political move and nothing else.

To show the country what heartless bastards the Republicans are? Them Dems are tricksy

 

[fskimospy]

See, that's the thing. I come here for actual discussion on politics and news. You come here to insult people and kick and stomp like a 6 year old girl that's not getting her way in the candy aisle. The fact that you're viewing this as a game of "who had the better comeback" just goes to prove that point.

I'll say again - grow up, kid.

Clearly.

 

[xj0hnx]

There has been so many wars and military actions that is almost unreasonable to expect to never get deployed. Not only that, but there is a difference in pay from being deployed/non-deployed. In other words, the situation of deployment is already rewarded because it is a common one. The situation of an unpredictable disaster is not already figured into the pay of first responders.

Hazard pay, if you happen to be in a designated combat zone, and no tax's, nothing even close to this. And yes "unpredictable disaster" is part of a first responders job. You think those cops that responded in Ceres CA that got ambushed by a former marine wasn't "unpredictable"? You think that firefighters responding to a call in a multistory building, that collapses with them inside isn't "unpredictable"? BS. Military, police, firefighters ALL expect the "unpredictable", it's part of the job, it's part of the training. When I went though EMT the whole training was to be able to show up, and handle the situation, to be able to deal with the "unpredictable".

This was a different situation from the norm, the government and those people involved should treat it differently from the norm. It is NOT something that readily fit into the job description of first responders.

It is exactly the job description of first responders. It doesn't matter that omg it was the al queda!!!, it isn't any more dangerous, or "unpredictable" than responding to any bomb call, burning skyscraper, or explosion at a chemical plant. That's the job.

 

[fskimospy]

Exactly. He knows fully well he was being insulting, and he absolutely intended to do so. That's one thing - although personal attacks are against forum rules, they do happen all the time, especially in P&N.

However, the fact that he keeps insisting he wasn't trying to insult anyone is an outright lie. He is being a dishonest, petulant child, he knows it, you know it, and everyone reading this thread knows it.

Well if its such common knowledge, you probably don't need to devote so much time to it. Let's discuss the bill, or lack thereof, eh?

 

[jackstar7]

See, that's the thing. I come here for actual discussion on politics and news. You come here to insult people and kick and stomp like a 6 year old girl that's not getting her way in the candy aisle. The fact that you're viewing this as a game of "who had the better comeback" just goes to prove that point.

I'll say again - grow up, kid.

I'm trying not to choke on the hypocrisy... but it's so thick!

 

[xj0hnx]

I'm sure you have all seen this picture before. I dont think this firefighter lived as you can see he is going up while everyone else is going down. But look at the expression on his face. Does he look like he expected this to be his day? Fuck no.

Does any first responder "expect" it to be their day? No, but all first responders know that if could be. That's what training is for.

 

[LTC8K6]

STATEMENT OF REPUBLICAN POLICY
H.R. 847- James Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Act of 2009

Excerpt:

The bill provides incentives to health care providers to over-utilize services while at the same time providing inflated reimbursement rates. H.R. 847 would reimburse New York area hospitals at a rate that is on average 140 percent of the Medicare reimbursement rate. This provides a perverse incentive for hospitals to use unnecessary services in order to garner higher payments from the federal government. Since ObamaCare slashes over $150 billion in payments to every hospital in the country, it is especially difficult to justify the creation of a new program that provides reimbursement rates so far above the Medicare payment level in the New York City area.

This legislation is paid for with a highly controversial tax increase on companies located in the United States and employing American workers. Specifically, the tax increase targets “insourcing” companies, American subsidiaries of companies headquartered abroad that create and sustain good jobs in the United States. Taxing these employers and these jobs would be dangerous for our already struggling economy, could encourage these companies to move American jobs overseas or to curtail future job-creating investments in America, and could invite retaliation by other countries.

Republicans continue to believe that those who responded to the WTC attack should get the treatment and liability protection they need because they dutifully answered a call for help. In addition, the legislation should include protections to ensure taxpayer dollars are spent properly and effectively. But, H.R. 847 fails to accomplish these goals. Instead, it creates a massive new entitlement program, exposes taxpayers to increased litigation, and is “paid for” with tax increases and potential job losses. As a result, Republicans are opposed to the legislation in its current form.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The Republican Cloakroom
House Republican Leader John Boehner

http://repcloakroom.house.gov/news/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=209259

 

[JSt0rm]

STATEMENT OF REPUBLICAN POLICY
H.R. 847- James Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Act of 2009

Excerpt:

The bill provides incentives to health care providers to over-utilize services while at the same time providing inflated reimbursement rates. H.R. 847 would reimburse New York area hospitals at a rate that is on average 140 percent of the Medicare reimbursement rate. This provides a perverse incentive for hospitals to use unnecessary services in order to garner higher payments from the federal government. Since ObamaCare slashes over $150 billion in payments to every hospital in the country, it is especially difficult to justify the creation of a new program that provides reimbursement rates so far above the Medicare payment level in the New York City area.

This legislation is paid for with a highly controversial tax increase on companies located in the United States and employing American workers. Specifically, the tax increase targets “insourcing” companies, American subsidiaries of companies headquartered abroad that create and sustain good jobs in the United States. Taxing these employers and these jobs would be dangerous for our already struggling economy, could encourage these companies to move American jobs overseas or to curtail future job-creating investments in America, and could invite retaliation by other countries.

Republicans continue to believe that those who responded to the WTC attack should get the treatment and liability protection they need because they dutifully answered a call for help. In addition, the legislation should include protections to ensure taxpayer dollars are spent properly and effectively. But, H.R. 847 fails to accomplish these goals. Instead, it creates a massive new entitlement program, exposes taxpayers to increased litigation, and is “paid for” with tax increases and potential job losses. As a result, Republicans are opposed to the legislation in its current form.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The Republican Cloakroom
House Republican Leader John Boehner

http://repcloakroom.house.gov/news/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=209259

like medicare part D but without the huge benefit to the republican voting block and pharma?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_Part_D

 

[fskimospy]

STATEMENT OF REPUBLICAN POLICY
H.R. 847- James Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Act of 2009

Excerpt:

The bill provides incentives to health care providers to over-utilize services while at the same time providing inflated reimbursement rates. H.R. 847 would reimburse New York area hospitals at a rate that is on average 140 percent of the Medicare reimbursement rate. This provides a perverse incentive for hospitals to use unnecessary services in order to garner higher payments from the federal government. Since ObamaCare slashes over $150 billion in payments to every hospital in the country, it is especially difficult to justify the creation of a new program that provides reimbursement rates so far above the Medicare payment level in the New York City area.

This legislation is paid for with a highly controversial tax increase on companies located in the United States and employing American workers. Specifically, the tax increase targets “insourcing” companies, American subsidiaries of companies headquartered abroad that create and sustain good jobs in the United States. Taxing these employers and these jobs would be dangerous for our already struggling economy, could encourage these companies to move American jobs overseas or to curtail future job-creating investments in America, and could invite retaliation by other countries.

Republicans continue to believe that those who responded to the WTC attack should get the treatment and liability protection they need because they dutifully answered a call for help. In addition, the legislation should include protections to ensure taxpayer dollars are spent properly and effectively. But, H.R. 847 fails to accomplish these goals. Instead, it creates a massive new entitlement program, exposes taxpayers to increased litigation, and is “paid for” with tax increases and potential job losses. As a result, Republicans are opposed to the legislation in its current form.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The Republican Cloakroom
House Republican Leader John Boehner

http://repcloakroom.house.gov/news/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=209259

It's tough to take party announcements like that seriously, but all I really wish they would do is decide if Medicare pays too much or too little. Half the time they say it pays so little that doctors will leave medicine and hospitals will go under, but if you pay more than it they complain about the waste of money.