9/11 Loose Change Final Cut Released Online

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Give it up Vic, some people are hopeless. It's all part of the bell curve of intelligence. Somebody has to fall into the tails. It's somehow not ironic that they mostly seem to be RPBs.

Yes give it up, cause almighty know it all LK has decreed as such! :laugh:

Grow up "educated man". :roll:

When a few people tell you that you are stupid, maybe they are. When just about everyone tells you that you are stupid, maybe it's time to start listening.

Yes, cause EVERYONE says I am stupid. Again, the pack mentality is very rampant and especially so on this topic. It is very hard for people to believe that our government, at the very least, let it happen. My condolences

Again, there you go with the conspiracy theory.

It is very hard for people to believe in the most simple answer. Our government is inefficient, full of conflicting ideals, turf wars, and stupidity. It is incapable of defeating a terrorist act because it cannot possibly match all of the possible scenarios of action, since terrorists, by their very nature, have the initiative and advantage of knowing when/where they will strike, especially in a cell environment, while a government must protect *all* areas and/or get dang lucky.

I believe our government is.

1. faced with the impossible act of facing determined terrorists who will exploit weaknesses with impunity.

2. Woefully inadequate and filled with egocentric assholes who only want to protect their own power and job.


Sure, believe in your conspiracy rather than the problem of facing a celled terrorist war.

Not theory my friend. Its well known a document crossed the presidents desk alluding to a possible attack by OBL using planes. Also it is very well documented that other countries, receiving the same information, contacted the U.S. and relayed the intel.

Now this is where you will say I am off the deep end, but bare with me for a moment and see what you think.

1) George Bush is elected president

2) Bush's running mate and Vice president was/is Dick Cheney

3) Cheney is a member of Project for the New American Century (PNAC)

4) In the think tank PNAC, a number of those members like Rumsfeld, Libby, Kristol and the aforementioned Cheney (to name a few) were placed in high positions of power (cabinet etc.) within our government.

5) PNAC's "Rebuilding America's Defenses" (released in Sept. 2000) mentions something about carrying out multiple theaters of war throughout the globe but also mentions it could not happen, unless, there was another event like that of Pearl Harbor.

Project for the New American Century

One of the core missions outlined in the 2000 report Rebuilding America's Defenses is "fight and decisively win multiple, simultaneous major theater wars."

Section V of Rebuilding America's Defenses, entitled "Creating Tomorrow's Dominant Force", includes the sentence: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event??like a new Pearl Harbor"

You will also have to look at the origins of the Neoconservative movement to understand their motives. Things like telling a lie for the greater good of society. (ie. Leo Strauss. Irving Kristol- author of "Reflections of a Neoconservative" and the father of PNAC founder William "Bill" Kristol)

Now lets think. I have all my buddies around and we are very powerful people. We feel in order to maintain America, it is imperative that we rebuild it through military might, so that none may oppose us. Then the OBL memo crosses my desk. I could stop this dastardly deed in its tracks and try to convince people through normal politics *or* I could just let OBL do what he wants and use that attack as a psychological weapon to rebuild what I feel is lacking in the defense of this country.

There is a line of thought beginning from the early 20th century till now that has shaped politics and the actions (or inactions) of people in power.

Ok, tell me how loony I am. That's fine. I don't expect you to follow the line of thought or agree. But at least you know where I am coming from

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Again, there you go with the conspiracy theory.

It is very hard for people to believe in the most simple answer. Our government is inefficient, full of conflicting ideals, turf wars, and stupidity. It is incapable of defeating a terrorist act because it cannot possibly match all of the possible scenarios of action, since terrorists, by their very nature, have the initiative and advantage of knowing when/where they will strike, especially in a cell environment, while a government must protect *all* areas and/or get dang lucky.

I believe our government is.

1. faced with the impossible act of facing determined terrorists who will exploit weaknesses with impunity.

2. Woefully inadequate and filled with egocentric assholes who only want to protect their own power and job.


Sure, believe in your conspiracy rather than the problem of facing a celled terrorist war.

Heh. I know. The real truth is far scarier than this Loose Change shit.

I think that's the mental block for the CT'ers. Govt is all powerful. Govt protects us. The truth, that on 9/11 our govt couldn't protect 3,000 of our citizens, and at least 3 of our most important buildings and institutions in 2 of our crowded major cities, from 19 crazed terrorists, is just more than they can accept. They have to believe that is was a conspiracy and our government did it on purpose.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Again, there you go with the conspiracy theory.

It is very hard for people to believe in the most simple answer. Our government is inefficient, full of conflicting ideals, turf wars, and stupidity. It is incapable of defeating a terrorist act because it cannot possibly match all of the possible scenarios of action, since terrorists, by their very nature, have the initiative and advantage of knowing when/where they will strike, especially in a cell environment, while a government must protect *all* areas and/or get dang lucky.

I believe our government is.

1. faced with the impossible act of facing determined terrorists who will exploit weaknesses with impunity.

2. Woefully inadequate and filled with egocentric assholes who only want to protect their own power and job.


Sure, believe in your conspiracy rather than the problem of facing a celled terrorist war.

Heh. I know. The real truth is far scarier than this Loose Change shit.

I think that's the mental block for the CT'ers. Govt is all powerful. Govt protects us. The truth, that on 9/11 our govt couldn't protect 3,000 of our citizens, and at least 3 of our most important buildings and institutions in 2 of our crowded major cities, from 19 crazed terrorists, is just more than they can accept. They have to believe that is was a conspiracy and our government did it on purpose.

After slogging through countless 9/11 "truth" websites, I can only agree with you. The people who believe in these conspiracies are genuinely more afraid of terrorists than they are of their own government.

Somehow, the fact that the government "did it" is comforting to them.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Again, there you go with the conspiracy theory.

It is very hard for people to believe in the most simple answer. Our government is inefficient, full of conflicting ideals, turf wars, and stupidity. It is incapable of defeating a terrorist act because it cannot possibly match all of the possible scenarios of action, since terrorists, by their very nature, have the initiative and advantage of knowing when/where they will strike, especially in a cell environment, while a government must protect *all* areas and/or get dang lucky.

I believe our government is.

1. faced with the impossible act of facing determined terrorists who will exploit weaknesses with impunity.

2. Woefully inadequate and filled with egocentric assholes who only want to protect their own power and job.


Sure, believe in your conspiracy rather than the problem of facing a celled terrorist war.

Heh. I know. The real truth is far scarier than this Loose Change shit.

I think that's the mental block for the CT'ers. Govt is all powerful. Govt protects us. The truth, that on 9/11 our govt couldn't protect 3,000 of our citizens, and at least 3 of our most important buildings and institutions in 2 of our crowded major cities, from 19 crazed terrorists, is just more than they can accept. They have to believe that is was a conspiracy and our government did it on purpose.

After slogging through countless 9/11 "truth" websites, I can only agree with you. The people who believe in these conspiracies are genuinely more afraid of terrorists than they are of their own government.

Somehow, the fact that the government "did it" is comforting to them.

No, our government poses much more threat to our liberties than terrorists ever could.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
No, our government poses much more threat to our liberties than terrorists ever could.

I think he worded that wrong.

My point, and I can't say that this applies to you personally, is that most CT'ers have a govt is all-powerful belief/attitude. Govt is everywhere. Govt can do anything. Govt does not fail. Govt can pull off amazing feats of conspiracy and keep it secret.
I know that this is a big part of the 9/11 "Truther" belief system.
Sorry, but govt is not all powerful, and govt did fail us on 9/11.
Yes, 19 terrorists brought down the WTC's. They really did.
9/11 is not a symbol of amazing govt power, as the CT'ers portray, but of its potential for incredible ineptitude. And all of govt's responses since 9/11 have not been to steal your liberty (per se) or to seize power through conspiracy, but to distract you from how incompetent it was that day. To keep you from losing faith in it.
Which is why the CT'ers play right into the govt's hands, by telling us that govt didn't actually screw up that day, it was the culmination and success of a vast master plan!

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
No, our government poses much more threat to our liberties than terrorists ever could.

Of course. When your head gets cut off the government can't threaten your liberties any longer. The terrorists are actually doing you a huge favor.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
No, our government poses much more threat to our liberties than terrorists ever could.

Of course. When your head gets cut off the government can't threaten your liberties any longer. The terrorists are actually doing you a huge favor.

Yeah cause they are on U.S. soil cutting citizens heads off :roll:

 

[event8horizon]

surgeon- u forgot to mention THE VULCANS-

The Vulcans is a nickname used to refer to Republican Presidential candidate George W. Bush's foreign policy advisory team assembled to brief him prior to the 2000 U.S. presidential election. The Vulcans were led by Condoleezza Rice and included Richard Armitage, Robert Blackwill, Stephen Hadley, Richard Perle, Dov S. Zakheim, Robert Zoellick and Paul Wolfowitz. Other key campaign figures including Dick Cheney, George P. Shultz and Colin Powell were also closely associated with the group but were never actually members. During the campaign, Bush sought to deflect questions about his own lack of foreign policy experience by pointing to this group of experienced advisers. After the election, all the members of the team received key positions within the new Bush administration.

see any familiar namess!!

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: event8horizon
surgeon- u forgot to mention THE VULCANS-

The Vulcans is a nickname used to refer to Republican Presidential candidate George W. Bush's foreign policy advisory team assembled to brief him prior to the 2000 U.S. presidential election. The Vulcans were led by Condoleezza Rice and included Richard Armitage, Robert Blackwill, Stephen Hadley, Richard Perle, Dov S. Zakheim, Robert Zoellick and Paul Wolfowitz. Other key campaign figures including Dick Cheney, George P. Shultz and Colin Powell were also closely associated with the group but were never actually members. During the campaign, Bush sought to deflect questions about his own lack of foreign policy experience by pointing to this group of experienced advisers. After the election, all the members of the team received key positions within the new Bush administration.

see any familiar namess!!

Soo, the same people who advised him before his Presidency advised him during.


And that means what?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
And that means what?

That the real truth about 9/11 is that Space Shuttle was secretly up testing out Zephram Cochrane's new warp drive. :Q

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: event8horizon
surgeon- u forgot to mention THE VULCANS-

The Vulcans is a nickname used to refer to Republican Presidential candidate George W. Bush's foreign policy advisory team assembled to brief him prior to the 2000 U.S. presidential election. The Vulcans were led by Condoleezza Rice and included Richard Armitage, Robert Blackwill, Stephen Hadley, Richard Perle, Dov S. Zakheim, Robert Zoellick and Paul Wolfowitz. Other key campaign figures including Dick Cheney, George P. Shultz and Colin Powell were also closely associated with the group but were never actually members. During the campaign, Bush sought to deflect questions about his own lack of foreign policy experience by pointing to this group of experienced advisers. After the election, all the members of the team received key positions within the new Bush administration.

see any familiar namess!!

Oh my god, his advisors were given a nickname! And when elected, his advisors took up key positions in Cabinet! Unprecedented! This proves everything!!111

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
And that means what?

That the real truth about 9/11 is that Space Shuttle was secretly up testing out Zephram Cochrane's new warp drive. :Q

I heard the Pentavirate is using it to service the mind control satellite that keeps the Iranian Oil Burose from opening and single handedly ending the imperialist petrodollar hegemony of the US.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
No, our government poses much more threat to our liberties than terrorists ever could.

Of course. When your head gets cut off the government can't threaten your liberties any longer. The terrorists are actually doing you a huge favor.

Yeah cause they are on U.S. soil cutting citizens heads off :roll:

They offer a variety of deaths on our own soil. You can burn to death, get crushed by a collapsing building, or be part of a suicide run in a commercial aircraft. If any of those methods of death are more preferable to you than beheading, by all means...

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
And that means what?

That the real truth about 9/11 is that Space Shuttle was secretly up testing out Zephram Cochrane's new warp drive. :Q

I heard the Pentavirate is using it to service the mind control satellite that keeps the Iranian Oil Burose from opening and single handedly ending the imperialist petrodollar hegemony of the US.

Heh... you talk Conspiraspeak well.

On that note, have you ever noticed how the right and left wings always come together at the extremes? How they like to pretend they're opposites but they're really almost the same? A book I like to pimp on this subject is Jon Ronson's "Them: Adventures with Extremists." That and its accompanying BBC TV series "The Secret Rulers of the World," are not only very informative about extremists and conspiracy theories, but pretty downright hilarious as well.

 

[ElFenix]

fnord

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Again, there you go with the conspiracy theory.

It is very hard for people to believe in the most simple answer. Our government is inefficient, full of conflicting ideals, turf wars, and stupidity. It is incapable of defeating a terrorist act because it cannot possibly match all of the possible scenarios of action, since terrorists, by their very nature, have the initiative and advantage of knowing when/where they will strike, especially in a cell environment, while a government must protect *all* areas and/or get dang lucky.

I believe our government is.

1. faced with the impossible act of facing determined terrorists who will exploit weaknesses with impunity.

2. Woefully inadequate and filled with egocentric assholes who only want to protect their own power and job.


Sure, believe in your conspiracy rather than the problem of facing a celled terrorist war.

Heh. I know. The real truth is far scarier than this Loose Change shit.

I think that's the mental block for the CT'ers. Govt is all powerful. Govt protects us. The truth, that on 9/11 our govt couldn't protect 3,000 of our citizens, and at least 3 of our most important buildings and institutions in 2 of our crowded major cities, from 19 crazed terrorists, is just more than they can accept. They have to believe that is was a conspiracy and our government did it on purpose.

After slogging through countless 9/11 "truth" websites, I can only agree with you. The people who believe in these conspiracies are genuinely more afraid of terrorists than they are of their own government.

Somehow, the fact that the government "did it" is comforting to them.

No, our government poses much more threat to our liberties than terrorists ever could.

I never said the terrorists posed a bigger threat to our liberties.

People are used to being afraid of the government. They like to blame the government for 9/11 because, if the government did it, they know how to fix that problem. It's something we've already addressed or, at least, thought about addressing.

Terrorists, on the other hand, are a whole new issue. They are something we haven't dealt with, something that most people don't feel we have the power to change or something that most people don't know how to change.

So, go ahead, blame the government, but admit that placing the blame at the government's feet brings you a degree of comfort.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
And that means what?

That the real truth about 9/11 is that Space Shuttle was secretly up testing out Zephram Cochrane's new warp drive. :Q

I heard the Pentavirate is using it to service the mind control satellite that keeps the Iranian Oil Burose from opening and single handedly ending the imperialist petrodollar hegemony of the US.

Heh... you talk Conspiraspeak well.

On that note, have you ever noticed how the right and left wings always come together at the extremes? How they like to pretend they're opposites but they're really almost the same? A book I like to pimp on this subject is Jon Ronson's "Them: Adventures with Extremists." That and its accompanying BBC TV series "The Secret Rulers of the World," are not only very informative about extremists and conspiracy theories, but pretty downright hilarious as well.

One has to in order to frequent this forum.

I'll have to take a look at those. Both sides certainly do come together in believing some of the most patently ridiculous fucking things that are not supported by evidence of any kind.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
So, go ahead, blame the government, but admit that placing the blame at the government's feet brings you a degree of comfort.

Oh dear. Someone needs a reality check.

Terrorism barely registers on my list of things that worry me. If I had to rank it, it would be slightly above getting struck by lightning, slightly below getting eaten by a lion at the zoo.

Our politicians are milking every dollar they can from this 'threat' of terrorism, and too many of you are eager to go along for the ride.

The US lost 3000 lives on 9/11? Big f**king deal. Thats a blip on the list of preventable deaths this country encounters on a yearly basis. Is the intelligent solution throwing $1 trillion at every scary situation?

9/11 'The Intelligent Solution':

Step 1: Send 150,000 troops into Afghanistan, along with special operations teams, to eradicate al-Qaeda (not to overthrow Taliban).

Step 2: Spend $xxx billion to overhaul airport/port/border security.

Step 3: Dramatically increase funding for CIA anti-terror operations worldwide.

Step 4: Enjoy a cold beer.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
So, go ahead, blame the government, but admit that placing the blame at the government's feet brings you a degree of comfort.

Oh dear. Someone needs a reality check.

Terrorism barely registers on my list of things that worry me. If I had to rank it, it would be slightly above getting struck by lightning, slightly below getting eaten by a lion at the zoo.

Our politicians are milking every dollar they can from this 'threat' of terrorism, and too many of you are eager to go along for the ride.

The US lost 3000 lives on 9/11? Big f**king deal. Thats a blip on the list of preventable deaths this country encounters on a yearly basis. Is the intelligent solution throwing $1 trillion at every scary situation?

9/11 'The Intelligent Solution':

Step 1: Send 150,000 troops into Afghanistan, along with special operations teams, to eradicate al-Qaeda (not to overthrow Taliban).

Step 2: Spend $xxx billion to overhaul airport/port/border security.

Step 3: Dramatically increase funding for CIA anti-terror operations worldwide.

Step 4: Enjoy a cold beer.

I think you missed the point of what I was saying.

 

[Mavtek3100]

Not theory my friend. Its well known a document crossed the presidents desk alluding to a possible attack by OBL using planes. Also it is very well documented that other countries, receiving the same information, contacted the U.S. and relayed the intel.

Now this is where you will say I am off the deep end, but bare with me for a moment and see what you think.

1) George Bush is elected president

2) Bush's running mate and Vice president was/is Dick Cheney

3) Cheney is a member of Project for the New American Century (PNAC)

4) In the think tank PNAC, a number of those members like Rumsfeld, Libby, Kristol and the aforementioned Cheney (to name a few) were placed in high positions of power (cabinet etc.) within our government.

5) PNAC's "Rebuilding America's Defenses" (released in Sept. 2000) mentions something about carrying out multiple theaters of war throughout the globe but also mentions it could not happen, unless, there was another event like that of Pearl Harbor.

Project for the New American Century

One of the core missions outlined in the 2000 report Rebuilding America's Defenses is "fight and decisively win multiple, simultaneous major theater wars."


Section V of Rebuilding America's Defenses, entitled "Creating Tomorrow's Dominant Force", includes the sentence: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event??like a new Pearl Harbor"


You will also have to look at the origins of the Neoconservative movement to understand their motives. Things like telling a lie for the greater good of society. (ie. Leo Strauss. Irving Kristol- author of "Reflections of a Neoconservative" and the father of PNAC founder William "Bill" Kristol)

Now lets think. I have all my buddies around and we are very powerful people. We feel in order to maintain America, it is imperative that we rebuild it through military might, so that none may oppose us. Then the OBL memo crosses my desk. I could stop this dastardly deed in its tracks and try to convince people through normal politics *or* I could just let OBL do what he wants and use that attack as a psychological weapon to rebuild what I feel is lacking in the defense of this country.

There is a line of thought beginning from the early 20th century till now that has shaped politics and the actions (or inactions) of people in power.

Ok, tell me how loony I am. That's fine. I don't expect you to follow the line of thought or agree. But at least you know where I am coming from

The most rational post on this page. Seriously PC, these people are lost and can not be found. They don't care/want to know anything or speculate anything that may not coincide with their "view" of the world. This is not a topic open to discussion for them. They don't even realize they are the ones that are part of the problem. They don't realize that they aren't being rational nor do they realize that they are being led astray. I think you'd find that many of those "at the top" don't realize they are being led astray as well. This is the method used by Strauss and Trotsky, and it's unbelievably effective as you can see. Even those who are educated do not realize they have been indoctrinated, they pass their indoctrination down to others, the plague continues. They do not want to believe in the possibility that they have been deceived, so therefore they will not. Or at least they won't for a very long time. Ask people who shot JFK in the 70's and most would say Lee Harvey Oswald, ask them now and they aren't so sure. Most people view people in positions of Authority as if they are held in some higher regard than themselves, you must remember that. These people often think of those in charge as infallible, as if they can do no wrong, surely they are this way because that is why they are in charge. They can not see that even in their own lives that those that are in charge are just as tainted or conflicted as anyone else. They know their "boss" for instance is not infallible, but surely that's not the case with the person at the very top. They grew up thinking that while I may do wrong or others around me the people that are running the show don't do wrong as they are infallible. In school they were taught Police are there to help you, if you have a problem you can trust a police officer to help you. Doctors only hold their patient's best interest when they are treating them. Teachers care most about teaching, Lawyers care most about Justice, and of course politicians care most about who they represent. It's an indoctrination, it's blinding, these people actually believe they need an army. They believe they need protection from Terrorist Cells. They feel that without the protection of the government the world would go into chaos and everything would come to an abrupt end. My advice to you is to give up and concentrate on http://www.breakthematrix.com, it's the only way we can get out of this insane world in which we live.

 

[BeauJangles]

Indoctrination? You dare come into a thread and talk about indoctrination when 99% of the 9/11 Truther movement worships at the ground of youtube videos that feed them the same meaningless crap over and over again?

Want to talk about blind? Go READ about how nearly every point made by the Truther movement has been effectively explained without involving the "government", "weapons pods", or any of that shit. You're so desperate to find a conspiracy within 9/11 that you bend over backwards, distort history, twist words, and perpetuate outright lies about what happened.

Blind? Go look in the mirror.

 

[yllus]

I want to comment on the post above me but it's so incredibly full of retarded bullshit that the words escape me.

Edit: Two posts above me now.

 

[jonks]

It's not worth disputing any conspiracy, because even if the doubter concedes on more than one point, they'll fall back to another unexplained or insufficiently explained point. Conspiracy theorists do not believe any coincidence is possible, and the fact is not everything in situations like these can be explained 100%. If you disprove half the conspiracy theory, that leaves them with half to claim as still unexplained, and therefore in their minds validates the conspiracy. Let the nuts think what they want, don't waste your time trying to make crazy people sane. They will always exist in any population, and will hover at whatever percent RPs support leveled off at.

 

[Vic]

What I want to know is how I can make a full case for government incompetence, how government cannot (and did not) protect us from the terrorists, etc., how trying to cover up that weakness and incompetence has dictated the government response to 9/11, and then some CT dipshit can miraculously turn that around into me being deceived by the government to believe that it is infallible and my only hope for protection. Asshole, the biggest reason I can't believe in your conspiracies (besides the total lack of hard evidence) is because I think government is too stupid and incompetent to pull something like this off.

:roll:<^>

I saw the planes hit the buildings. I've read (and can understand) the NIST report. The buildings fell because the planes hit them. But for the terrorists flying the planes into the buildings, the buildings would not have fallen. The science and the evidence is completely sound. There were no explosives or intentional demolition (besides the planes).

If the CT'ers would like to supply us with evidence to the contrary, I would welcome that. But coincidences are NOT evidence.

 

[Mavtek3100]

PC I hope you see just from the replies regarding my post that your cause is an exercise in Futility. Not once in my post did I talk about Government involvement in 911. Yet that's where every reply is centered. I only talked about why it is important to be a skeptic, or a cynic and that mentality is being driven out of society and often labeled kooky or crazy. This is a relatively new age in America when believing the outlandish is the norm and questioning it is insanity. We as the few must come to realize quickly that we have 3 choices, fix the situation, bury our sanity and become part of the problem, or get the hell out.

I say we try to fix it.

http://www.breakthematrix.com/