8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[psolord]

Seems like a very compute/shader heavy game. RAM doesn't matter in this particular game. UE5 is not the be-all and end-all of gaming engines.

Yeah, it will only be like 50-60% of all games.

UE5 and Unity are like 85 of the whole games and they are mostly gpu bound not vram bound.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Yeah, it will only be like 50-60% of all games.

UE5 and Unity are like 85 of the whole games and they are mostly gpu bound not vram bound.

Unity is a joke? Is there any serious AAA game made in Unity? They also eroded their trust with the developer community through their pricing shenanigans thanks to their jerkass CEO so unless Unity goes opensource, I don't see much future in it for games.

Most developers are into UE5 due to ease of development for PS5 and that device has more than 8GB VRAM. Doesn't bode well for the future of 8GB cards.

 

[psolord]

Unity is a joke? Is there any serious AAA game made in Unity? They also eroded their trust with the developer community through their pricing shenanigans thanks to their jerkass CEO so unless Unity goes opensource, I don't see much future in it for games.

Most developers are into UE5 due to ease of development for PS5 and that device has more than 8GB VRAM. Doesn't bode well for the future of 8GB cards.

No rest for the wicked springs to mind...

Also please don't be such a pcmracer. AAA games are not the only ones in existence.

Here's a list of Unity games. There are many more online

List of games that use Unity - PCGamingWiki PCGW - bugs, fixes, crashes, mods, guides and improvements for every PC game

www.pcgamingwiki.com

Pricing shenanigans have been back tracked and are irrelevant to the technical aspect of the thread and to the already existing reality of things.

 

[nurturedhate]

Several years and 2679 posts and @psolord still doesn't understand that posting examples of 8gb being enough DOES NOT INVALIDATE WHAT HAS BEEN POSTED IN POST #1.

 

[Iron Woode]

Several years and 2679 posts and @psolord still doesn't understand that posting examples of 8gb being enough DOES NOT INVALIDATE WHAT HAS BEEN POSTED IN POST #1.

more than that, he keeps pointing out that the 4060 Ti 8GB out performs the 7600 XT and then claims "16GB VRAM didn't help".

or you have to use the correct settings.

I keep saying, why buy a video card if you can't use all of its features by limiting its settings?

He seems hellbent on VRAM not being important to gaming performance. Architecture and VRAM together make a superior card.

Also, we have noted that poorer people may have to settle with less than adequate cards but they can upgrade through the used market. There are good deals out there for everyone. There is no need to settle for lackluster performance now a days.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Why is this thread still not closed?
I personally don't think It's worth keeping It open when It's still the same debate between @psolord vs the rest.

 

[marees]

Why is this thread still not closed?

Maybe keep it open to shame nvidia into releasing a 8gb+ budget card ??

 

[maddie]

Pricing shenanigans have been back tracked and are irrelevant to the technical aspect of the thread and to the already existing reality of things.

Applying this to the 8GB controversy.

You do not get to redefine issues or the nature of a thread. Everyone has said outright that 8GB cards if priced cheaply enough, are acceptable. Create your own if technical aspects are the only relevant variables.

Edit:
Thinking about it a while suggests that pricing also must matter to you. For example, Do you advocate for a $1000, $1500, or $2000 8GB card? If no, then what is your upper limit for such a card. If you do have one, then even in your case, 8GB is NOT enough. It just takes a higher price. Let's now argue as to the cut-off cost for 8GB.

 

[Mopetar]

Why is this thread still not closed?

It'll get worse with time and there's no point in closing this thread only for another all but identical one to be spawned in its stead. Or worse this all winds up in other threads and just pollutes them instead of being contained here instead.

Also, if Nvidia releases 8 GB Blackwell cards it will be even more relevant. Of course there's always a chance that they use CORRECT SETTINGS for their hardware configurations so that it's not necessary for gamers to have to lower their settings in order to have acceptable frame rates or textures that didn't come from the shadow realm.

 

[nurturedhate]

Are we sure psolord isn't just happymedium telling us how great GTX960 2gb cards are?

 

[Ranulf]

Next game up to bat on vram...Star Wars Outlaws.

This could probably also go in the RT/DLSS thread but a 3060ti min for 1080p 60fps...with upscalers turned on. Min cards are 6Gb 1660, Arc 750 etc.. Recommended is 3060ti or 6700xt.

Ubisoft recommends GeForce RTX 3060 Ti rendering at 720p to play Star Wars Outlaws on PC

DLSS and FSR are required to play Star Wars Outlaws at all resolutions on PC if you want to hit 60 FPS. Even at 1080p, you'll need to upscale from 720p.

www.tweaktown.com

Tech spot coverage too:

Ubisoft reveals Star Wars Outlaws PC requirements, all listed using upscaling

An update on the Ubisoft store page reveals the full PC requirements for what the company calls the first ever open-world Star Wars game. The good news...

www.techspot.com

 

[mikeymikec]

Has the Star Wars franchise ditched EA or something? I thought all SW titles for about 10 years were EA...

Admittedly ditching EA for Ubi doesn't help me much, they're both on my 'avoid' list...

 

[marees]

Next game up to bat on vram...Star Wars Outlaws.

This could probably also go in the RT/DLSS thread but a 3060ti min for 1080p 60fps...with upscalers turned on. Min cards are 6Gb 1660, Arc 750 etc.. Recommended is 3060ti or 6700xt.

Ubisoft recommends GeForce RTX 3060 Ti rendering at 720p to play Star Wars Outlaws on PC

DLSS and FSR are required to play Star Wars Outlaws at all resolutions on PC if you want to hit 60 FPS. Even at 1080p, you'll need to upscale from 720p.

www.tweaktown.com

Tech spot coverage too:

Ubisoft reveals Star Wars Outlaws PC requirements, all listed using upscaling

An update on the Ubisoft store page reveals the full PC requirements for what the company calls the first ever open-world Star Wars game. The good news...

www.techspot.com

Has the Star Wars franchise ditched EA or something? I thought all SW titles for about 10 years were EA...

Admittedly ditching EA for Ubi doesn't help me much, they're both on my 'avoid' list...

This appears to be ubisoft's snowdrop engine first developed for Tom Clancy's division & used last in Avatar Pandora

In Avatar, as per hub 1% lows were bad for 8gb 4060 ti in 1440p ultra. (I can dig that post out, from above, if you can't find that)

 

[marees]

This appears to be ubisoft's snowdrop engine first developed for Tom Clancy's division & used last in Avatar Pandora

In Avatar, as per hub 1% lows were bad for 8gb 4060 ti in 1440p. (I can dig that post out, from above, if you can't find that)

7 pages ago

Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora —​

• A quick in-game comparison between the 8GB and 16GB versions of the RTX 4060 Ti at 1440p using the ultra preset showed the 16GB model delivering 25% higher 1% lows.

 

[VirtualLarry]

You guys must have made a dent in NV's sales-price ladder - they're discontinuing the 12GB 3060 cards.

 

[marees]

You guys must have made a dent in NV's sales-price ladder - they're discontinuing the 12GB 3060 cards.

Really what are the budget options now 🤔

7700xt — occasionally drops to $350 but mostly well above that

RDNA 2(6800/67xx) — still in stock despite stopping production almost 2 years ago. God knows how long it will last

3060 12gb — nvidia to take one last order. Not sure how long they will be available on shelf

4060 ti 16gb — currently $440 & poor value compared to 6800/7700xt
Navi 44 — should be same as 4060 ti 8gb but for $300

That leaves the 7600 xt. But I suspect AMD will not be able to sell it alongside navi 44, so will discontinue it soon after Navi 44's release

In conclusion:
Buy RDNA 2 when still unsold
You are not getting a better deal for another 3 years or more

 

[Ranulf]

Has the Star Wars franchise ditched EA or something? I thought all SW titles for about 10 years were EA...

Admittedly ditching EA for Ubi doesn't help me much, they're both on my 'avoid' list...

Yeah, EA lost exclusivity a couple of years ago I think. Ubi got this one and it uses the Division games engine, its developed by Massive Entertainment (who made Div1/2) and are a dev house of Ubisoft. Which is also why I'm not surprised the character models aren't great and people have been picking on them for months.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Hey, at least sheeple understand that 4GB is not enough!

 

[psolord]

The order of the day is Black Myth Wukong benchmark. Feast your eyes.





Yes it's UE5. And yes, the final game will be even heavier! This is what happens when you use stupid settings. Not amount of vram is going to save you.

3060 is at 9fps with RT and 3060ti is still 44% faster. Both are useless. Actually all cards are useless with RT. These are 1080p benchmarks, mkay? I will not even bother with the rest of the resolutions.

Moving on to the nonRT benchmarks things are better, but still a clusterF. 3060ti is 33% faster than the 3060, as it should be. Both are still useless. Many lower vram cards are faster than higher vram cards. Vram ain't helping mateys.

What WILL help however, is correct settings, which you are always mocking. I have done five runs on the 3060ti and one run on the freagin GTX 970, to show the scope of things. Long story short, even on the 970 you can get 60fps, but it is not very good, with low settings and balanced TSR.

On the 3060ti however, you can actually use the cinematic preset, with medium GI and shadows and DLSS. It gets....acceptable. Here are my as always hobbyist non monetized runs, if anynone cares to see anything else than maxed out malarkey.

For the long story short version, this is the result of stupid settings vs correct settings

Spoiler: Wukong runs

This is a comparison of cinematic vs custom cinematic

Mix of 2 videos from youtube : Black Myth Wukong 3060ti, 1080 cinematic vs custom

Mix of 2 videos from youtube, by psolord : Black Myth Wukong 3060ti, 1080 cinematic vs custom

www.youtubemultiplier.com

 

[psolord]

Several years and 2679 posts and @psolord still doesn't understand that posting examples of 8gb being enough DOES NOT INVALIDATE WHAT HAS BEEN POSTED IN POST #1.

What psolord has been saying from the start of his dispute with the standing of this thread, is that you are blowing an issue WAY out of proportion. I have been telling you that video cards will be severely relegated due to gpu power first and foremost and video ram will be mostly irrelevant. See Wukong above and tell me who was right about the future coming of things...

 

[psolord]

Applying this to the 8GB controversy.

You do not get to redefine issues or the nature of a thread. Everyone has said outright that 8GB cards if priced cheaply enough, are acceptable. Create your own if technical aspects are the only relevant variables.

Edit:
Thinking about it a while suggests that pricing also must matter to you. For example, Do you advocate for a $1000, $1500, or $2000 8GB card? If no, then what is your upper limit for such a card. If you do have one, then even in your case, 8GB is NOT enough. It just takes a higher price. Let's now argue as to the cut-off cost for 8GB.

Asking for 8GB cards being priced cheaply enough, is a generic statement. WHICH of all 8GB cards do you want to be priced cheaply enough? If the 6600 starts at 200, how much do you want the more capable and more feature complete 8GB cards to cost? Vram is not the uttermost specification to dictate prices. See above in Wukong, top 8GB card vs last 8GB have a 2X performance difference. Top 12GB card has 2.5X difference with the last 12GB card. Vram means nothing as far pricing goes.

8GBs are still quite capable, to fit a considerable amount of visual data and along with correct settings that are mandatory anyway, will provide a pleasurable experience.

And no I never said lets go for 1000 coins 8GB cards. Don't stretch my words please.

 

[psolord]

Are we sure psolord isn't just happymedium telling us how great GTX960 2gb cards are?

Don't know who happy medium is. I had gotten a GTX 970 which I used and test to this day.

 

[psolord]

Also, here are some screenshots I have gathered from various steam demos I've been testing. These are on the 3060ti, from 1080p to 4k. What they highlight, is that card is facing gpu power issues, while vram is very relaxed. And for the games that it can run fine, vram is also relaxed.

Spoiler: 3060ti various screens

link for all

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Use imgbox to upload, host and share all your images. It's simple, free and blazing fast!

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[Rigg]

This thread is haunted by circular logic. it's a paranormal phenomenon.

 

[Ranulf]

We're all stuck vindaloop...of an 8GB buffer.

Thanks for the heads up on the Wukong Bench Test program, I had missed they released one.