8800gtx actually offers pretty good value

[Dethfrumbelo]

Everything is relative. If you base costs on sheer performance, maybe... if the 70-90% numbers are accurate.

The GTS is likely to be a better 'value'. $650 for a video card goes beyond my sensibilities.

 

[josh6079]

But if 3 months isn't significant, what's to stop you from waiting another three months after you've already waited three months? Do you see where I'm going with this; 2 years is just 3 months 8 times....

True, and I'm not saying that people shouldn't get the 8800GTX when it first comes out. I'm simply saying that it isn't as great as a value as the OP was discussing considering the price will substantially decline ~3 months.

Also, I edited it in my post probably after you replied, but I don't think R600 will be here in 3 months.

Really? Last I heard was the end of Jan. Has it been delayed again?

This is pure rhetoric that, quite frankly, doesn't really make sense.

Why? You claimed that I'm underestimating a good launch when in reality I'm underestimating its "good" price. Launching is one thing, nVidia's initial 7 series was a solid one and it sounds like the 8 series will follow its footsteps. However having a good price/performance ratio when the price is ~$600 or more? It better make toast too for that price, not just beat the competition by 30-50 fps.

 

[BFG10K]

In reality top end GPU's shouldnt even be costing $350.

But what if the card costs more than $350 to make (which it probably does)?

Are you advocating the hardware vendor sells it at a loss? Or would you prefer the hardware vendor not to release it all?

Would you prefer the G80 release to be cancelled and delayed for two years in order to bring it down to $350?

$599 is not a "good value" for a single component of a computer especially for the horrid return you get when reselling video cards.

That depends who you ask.

 

[Nelsieus]

Originally posted by: josh6079
Really? Last I heard was the end of Jan. Has it been delayed again?

The last I heard, it was....nothing. There have been no concrete announcements on the launch, but personally, I'm expecting it around March or April. Late Feb. would be nice, but I don't see it coming any earlier than that. Maybe I'm wrong.

Originally posted by: josh6079Why? You claimed that I'm underestimating a good launch when in reality I'm underestimating its "good" price. Launching is one thing, nVidia's initial 7 series was a solid one and it sounds like the 8 series will follow its footsteps. However having a good price/performance ratio when the price is ~$600 or more? It better make toast too for that price, not just beat the competition by 30-50 fps.

But that has nothing to do with my original statement. I never accused you over underestimating a good launch. 0_o

I said that you were underestimating the value of getting a GPU and gaming on it, instead of waiting until something better came along.

Secondly, I fear you lack understanding of this topic. Geforce 8 is more than just 30-50 more frames per second (equating to nearly 75% faster in terms of percentage in some cases). It'll be the first DX10 GPU, comes with new features (new AA and HDR engine, HDR+AA capabilities, new angle-dependant AF, etc). So now it seems you underestimating the actual card.

Also, as a sidenote, Geforce 8800GTS is looking to offer performance on par with the Geforce 7950GX2. However, the Geforce 8800GTS will retail for $449-$499, opposed to the Geforce 7950GX2's cost of $600+. That, imo, is an excellent value.

Nelsieus

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: A554SS1N
Good value????!! Your obviously much richer than the rest of us!!

Too True... $600 for a video card? No thanks...plus it's a 100% complete and total waste for me to have. My x1900 is perfectly fine for my monitors res.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: vhx

Originally posted by: nib95

Originally posted by: A554SS1N
Good value????!! Your obviously much richer than the rest of us!!

Exactly.

In reality top end GPU's shouldnt even be costing $350.

I wish. People will still pay for $600 cards, and I wouldn't be the least bit suprised if they paid $1200 for 2 of them.

I will probably wait till Crysis or UT2007 is out before I make a major purchase.

Even those games are DX9 based and not 100% DX10 so current gen cards will still run them fine at reasonable resolutions.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: RobertR1
It really doesn't. If we had Vista and DX10 games out to where the card could be used for next gen performance, then you have a point.

By the time DX10 and vista roll around there will already be a refresh and the R600 out. I'll check back then. Until then, for the games I'm playing my x1900xtx does the job.

Exactly what I said

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Nightmare225

Originally posted by: Beachboy
At these prices it looks like I won't have DX10 for at least a year.

Vista, DX10, Halo3, Alan Wake... hmm, not worth upgrading for IMO. :thumbsdown:

Alan Wake not worth upgrading for? Have you seen any of the vids?

Yes and it looks like a *snore* fest to me. Fancy effects don't ever impress me.

 

[josh6079]

But that has nothing to do with my original statement. I never accused you over underestimating a good launch. 0_o

I said that you were underestimating the value of getting a GPU and gaming on it, instead of waiting until something better came along.

But isn't "the value of actually getting a card and being able to game, while others play the wait game" encompassed in a good launch? I mean, actually being able to buy the card and play a game instead of waiting comes hand in hand with a good video card launch, right?

Secondly, I fear you lack understanding of this topic. Geforce 8 is more than just 30-50 more frames per second...

DailyTech's most recent preview suggests otherwise.
The only exception being HL2, exceeding the 50 frame gap by 6 frames. Every other game was in between 30-50.

Also, as a sidenote, Geforce 8800GTS is looking to offer performance on par with the Geforce 7950GX2. However, the Geforce 8800GTS will retail for $449-$499, opposed to the Geforce 7950GX2's cost of $600+. That, imo, is an excellent value.

That's what I was saying previously. However, the OP isn't talking about the the 8800GTS, but the 8800GTX.

 

[Dethfrumbelo]

You won't have any trouble fitting the GTS in your case either and it uses less power, which makes it more feasible for SLI (if one wants to go that route). It'll probably be a better overclocker as well - hitting GTX speeds should be automatic.

 

[Nelsieus]

Originally posted by: josh6079
But isn't "the value of actually getting a card and being able to game, while others play the wait game" encompassed in a good launch? I mean, actually being able to buy the card and play a game instead of waiting comes hand in hand with a good video card launch, right?

You were advocating towards waiting three months, and I said that would undermine the value of getting the card during its release and gaming while others wait.

But now you seem to be turning it in to G80's launch status. That's fine, but give me some warning before you choose to change topics so quickly, because that was rather confusing trying to figure out what you were refering to.

In any event, everything I've seen thus far, including from Dailytech, says G80 will be a hardlaunch, so I'm not even sure why you are questioning that. If you have reason to believe it won't, please provide that information so I can know what you're basing those thoughts on.

Originally posted by: josh6079DailyTech's most recent preview suggests otherwise.
The only exception being HL2, exceeding the 50 frame gap by 6 frames. Every other game was in between 30-50.

First of all, I don't think you read my post, because I never said it wasn't 30-50 additional FPS (which equated to a 92% performance increase). I mentioned that aside from the 92% performance lead over the Radeon x1950XTX in most of those applications tested, it also comes with DX10 compliancy, new AA and HDR engines, HDR+AA capabilities, angle dependant AF, and other features attributed to the new architecture.

Originally posted by: josh6079That's what I was saying previously. However, the OP isn't talking about the the 8800GTS, but the 8800GTX.

So does that permit me from mentioning it? 0_o
It relates to value, so I'm not sure why you would discredit it solely because the OP didn't refer to it word-to word.

Not to be rude, but I get the feeling you're just refuting me for the sake of arguing. Please try to be a little more constructive with your points, or else they become hard to follow.

Nelsieus

 

[Nightmare225]

Originally posted by: Dethfrumbelo
You won't have any trouble fitting the GTS in your case either and it uses less power, which makes it more feasible for SLI (if one wants to go that route). It'll probably be a better overclocker as well - hitting GTX speeds should be automatic.

Impossible to hit GTX speeds because the GTS is actually a cut-down version and missing some shaders and other parts. However far you may overclock it, it will still be more crippled than the GTX.

 

[Nelsieus]

Originally posted by: Nightmare225

Originally posted by: Dethfrumbelo
You won't have any trouble fitting the GTS in your case either and it uses less power, which makes it more feasible for SLI (if one wants to go that route). It'll probably be a better overclocker as well - hitting GTX speeds should be automatic.

Impossible to hit GTX speeds because the GTS is actually a cut-down version and missing some shaders and other parts. However far you may overclock it, it will still be more crippled than the GTX.

We don't know about that. It has 96 shaders compared to 128 of the GTX. I'd like to see what differene that makes in performance.

I'm sure the stock difference in performance will be similiar to previous gens (as in GT to GTX).

Nelsieus

 

[Nightmare225]

Originally posted by: Nelsieus

Originally posted by: Nightmare225

Originally posted by: Dethfrumbelo
You won't have any trouble fitting the GTS in your case either and it uses less power, which makes it more feasible for SLI (if one wants to go that route). It'll probably be a better overclocker as well - hitting GTX speeds should be automatic.

Impossible to hit GTX speeds because the GTS is actually a cut-down version and missing some shaders and other parts. However far you may overclock it, it will still be more crippled than the GTX.

We don't know about that. It has 96 shaders compared to 128 of the GTX. I'd like to see what differene that makes in performance.

I'm sure the stock difference in performance will be similiar to previous gens (as in GT to GTX).

Nelsieus

Indeed. We should know soon enough, reviews should start popping up after tomorrow. Have another restless night, my friends. I know I will.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Nelsieus
First of all, I don't think you read my post, because I never said it wasn't 30-50 additional FPS (which equated to a 92% performance increase). I mentioned that aside from the 92% performance lead over the Radeon x1950XTX in most of those applications tested, it also comes with DX10 compliancy, new AA and HDR engines, HDR+AA capabilities, angle dependant AF, and other features attributed to the new architecture.

DX10 won't be very useful until Vista launches...in January is it??. And even then, most games will still be in DX9. Which game do you know of coming out will use 128-bit HDR?? And it's angle-INdependent AF not angle-dependent (which is what G70/71 already have) and that is not a new feature...ATI R5X0 cards already have it. HDR+AA is also not new since ATI cards already have it and this seems to be the only noteworthy feature you mentioned that might actually be useful when the card launches.

The new AA modes I suppose we'll see how much of a difference they make when the card launches but isn't some of the new AA stuff dependent on the game(ie. the game has to be programmed for the new modes)?? I thought I read that somewhere.

Don't get me wrong...I'm still gonna get it...but not because of the "new" features you mentioned...for me it's the performance. If I wanted said features I'd buy a ATI R580/+ card as they have the useful ones already. Hmmm...now that I think about it, it's gonna be a hard decision if the X1950XTX and the 8800GTS are priced about the same.

 

[Nightmare225]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: Nelsieus
First of all, I don't think you read my post, because I never said it wasn't 30-50 additional FPS (which equated to a 92% performance increase). I mentioned that aside from the 92% performance lead over the Radeon x1950XTX in most of those applications tested, it also comes with DX10 compliancy, new AA and HDR engines, HDR+AA capabilities, angle dependant AF, and other features attributed to the new architecture.

DX10 won't be very useful until Vista launches...in January is it??. And even then, most games will still be in DX9. Which game do you know of coming out will use 128-bit HDR?? And it's angle-INdependent AF not angle-dependent (which is what G70/71 already have) and that is not a new feature...ATI R5X0 cards already have it. HDR+AA is also not new since ATI cards already have it and this seems to be the only noteworthy feature you mentioned that might actually be useful when the card launches.

The new AA modes I suppose we'll see how much of a difference they make when the card launches but isn't some of the new AA stuff dependent on the game(ie. the game has to be programmed for the new modes)?? I thought I read that somewhere.

Don't get me wrong...I'm still gonna get it...but not because of the "new" features you mentioned...for me it's the performance. If I wanted said features I'd buy a ATI R580/+ card as they have the useful ones already. Hmmm...now that I think about it, it's gonna be a hard decision if the X1950XTX and the 8800GTS are priced about the same.

When the X1800 and x1900s came out, there were barely any games that supported HDR+AA, many felt it was unneeded.

 

[DeathReborn]

Originally posted by: Nelsieus

Originally posted by: Nightmare225

Originally posted by: Dethfrumbelo
You won't have any trouble fitting the GTS in your case either and it uses less power, which makes it more feasible for SLI (if one wants to go that route). It'll probably be a better overclocker as well - hitting GTX speeds should be automatic.

Impossible to hit GTX speeds because the GTS is actually a cut-down version and missing some shaders and other parts. However far you may overclock it, it will still be more crippled than the GTX.

We don't know about that. It has 96 shaders compared to 128 of the GTX. I'd like to see what differene that makes in performance.

I'm sure the stock difference in performance will be similiar to previous gens (as in GT to GTX).

Nelsieus

According to the 3dmock scores in this thread it's not far behind the GTX on a X2 4600.

http://www.coolpc.com.tw/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6379

Looks very much like GTX is hitting a wall or the GTS is just that good. obviously they'd probably need to use 16x12 or higher to start seeing a proper gap there.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Nightmare225
When the X1800 and x1900s came out, there were barely any games that supported HDR+AA, many felt it was unneeded.

IIRC, HDR+AA was available soon after the launch of X1800 for Farcry even if it was with a tweak instead of an official patch. In this case, DX10 is still several months away from launch, and as I mentioned some of the features aren't new. It's also like the NVidia 6800 launch where SM3 wasn't used initially.

However, progress is definitely good. As I mentioned I will still get this card, but mostly because of the performance, not for the extras like DX10 compatibility. IQ quality should be about the same now with NVidia and ATI cards and so the only real decider for me would be performance and price.

 

[Nelsieus]

Originally posted by: thilan29
DX10 won't be very useful until Vista launches...in January is it??.

When you buy a new GPU, hopefully you expect it to last longer than two months, eh?

Originally posted by: thilan29And even then, most games will still be in DX9.

That can also run in DX10 granted you have a DX10 system. In fact, developers for Supreme Commander, Hellgate London, Crysis (obviously) and many others have already announced such modes.

Originally posted by: thilan29Which game do you know of coming out will use 128-bit HDR??

We'll find out soon enough. There might even be games already supporting it and we just don't know.

Originally posted by: thilan29And it's angle-INdependent AF not angle-dependent (which is what G70/71 already have) and that is not a new feature...ATI R5X0 cards already have it. HDR+AA is also not new since ATI cards already have it and this seems to be the only noteworthy feature you mentioned that might actually be useful when the card launches.

They are new for the Geforce line, and features from new hardware/architectures usually offer improvement over similiar features from previous generation, just like R520 vs. G70.
The new AA engine, 128-bit HDR, and the new AF in G80 are examples.

Originally posted by: thilan29Don't get me wrong...I'm still gonna get it...but not because of the "new" features you mentioned...

Then apparently you are underestimating them just like Josh is with performance. I know it's hard for pro-reddies to get excited, but just admit G80 has surprised us and, quite frankly, is shaping up to be a gem.

Review day is soon enough.
Nelsieus

 

[josh6079]

Originally posted by: Nelsieus
But now you seem to be turning it in to G80's launch status. That's fine, but give me some warning before you choose to change topics so quickly, because that was rather confusing trying to figure out what you were refering to.

The products price isn't a part of its launch status?

Originally posted by: Nelsieus
In any event, everything I've seen thus far, including from Dailytech, says G80 will be a hardlaunch, so I'm not even sure why you are questioning that. If you have reason to believe it won't, please provide that information so I can know what you're basing those thoughts on.

I've never said that it wouldn't be a hard launch. In fact, I stated the opposite:

Originally posted by: josh6079
Launching is one thing, nVidia's initial 7 series was a solid one and it sounds like the 8 series will follow its footsteps.

Originally posted by: Nelsieus
First of all, I don't think you read my post, because I never said it wasn't 30-50 additional FPS (which equated to a 92% performance increase). I mentioned that aside from the 92% performance lead over the Radeon x1950XTX in most of those applications tested, it also comes with DX10 compliancy, new AA and HDR engines, HDR+AA capabilities, angle dependant AF, and other features attributed to the new architecture.

True, and I really do think that the higher IQ features will be a nice selling feature. I just don't like the latest glimpses we've gotten not detailing any information about the IQ and concentrating solely on the performance.

So does that permit me from mentioning it? 0_o

No, but I'm just making it clear that the thread is concentrated on a claim that the new 8800 flagship card is a good price/performance, not on a claim that other 8800's will give a better price/performance ratio. Whatever value/dollar we get with the 8800GTX, we'll get even more value/dollar with a lower priced card with the same IQ features, making the 8800GTX not so much of a good price/performance but more of a "I've got the latest and the greatest despite how much sense it makes" card.

Not to be rude, but I get the feeling you're just refuting me for the sake of arguing. Please try to be a little more constructive with your points, or else they become hard to follow.

Not at all, I'm not intending to argue whatsoever, just make sure that others understand what I mean when I say that the 8800GTX isn't a very good price/performance deal. The fact that you're questioning what I mean only helps:

A) Me come to a new realization if I'm wrong.

B) Others better understand my viewpoint.

You're a level-headed member that I myself respect and wouldn't think of arguing with. I'm sorry if my posts are hard to follow so I'll just sum up my main points.

[*] The 8800GTX does not offer a pretty good value especially when the features giving it its value can be achieved for a lesser price through similar products (i.e. GTS, GT).

[*] It looks to be the undisputed champ for a while and if you want a new feature set from nVidia (like I do) and don't want to opt out for a "crippled" model, this is the card to get. It's more of a strict enthusiasts card than it is good value. Even I am considering it if it falls closer to the $500-$550 mark, but that's as high as I'll go for one piece of computer hardware--other than monitors of course

EDIT:

Then apparently you are underestimating them just like Josh is with performance.

I'm not underestimating its performance but rather disagreeing with the price for that peroformance.

I know it's hard for pro-reddies to get excited, but just admit G80 has surprised us and, quite frankly, is shaping up to be a gem.

Can we leave the red/green battles out of one thread?

Who said I wasn't excited? Until I found out that the power consumptions weren't as much as they had claimed to be I was planning on getting another OCZ 520W Powerstream PSU to throw into my TJ-07 for SLI. However, because of the reoccuring troubles with SLI and Vsync I'll probably stick with a single for the time being.

 

[Dethfrumbelo]

Originally posted by: Nightmare225

Originally posted by: Dethfrumbelo
You won't have any trouble fitting the GTS in your case either and it uses less power, which makes it more feasible for SLI (if one wants to go that route). It'll probably be a better overclocker as well - hitting GTX speeds should be automatic.

Impossible to hit GTX speeds because the GTS is actually a cut-down version and missing some shaders and other parts. However far you may overclock it, it will still be more crippled than the GTX.

I was referring to clock speeds only, not actual performance.

Since the GTS has fewer transistors to feed, a higher overclock is likely.

 

[Nelsieus]

Originally posted by: josh6079
The products price isn't a part of its launch status?

Launch status refers to hardlaunch of paper-launch.

Originally posted by: josh6079I've never said that it wouldn't be a hard launch. In fact, I stated the opposite

But you also said - " I mean, actually being able to buy the card and play a game instead of waiting comes hand in hand with a good video card launch, right?"

Again, I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but if it's to imply G80 won't be a hardlaunch, then you need to explain.

Originally posted by: josh6079True, and I really do think that the higher IQ features will be a nice selling feature. I just don't like the latest glimpses we've gotten not detailing any information about the IQ and concentrating solely on the performance.

I'm not sure how that's significant at this point. There's only a few people who got their hands on the card, and what I'm not hearing is shimmering or anything else negative that sticks out to them. That's a good sign, especially granted it's pre-released hardware with un-official drivers.

Originally posted by: josh6079No, but I'm just making it clear that the thread is concentrated on a claim that the new 8800 flagship card is a good price/performance, not on a claim that other 8800's will give a better price/performance ratio. Whatever value/dollar we get with the 8800GTX, we'll get even more value/dollar with a lower priced card with the same IQ features, making the 8800GTX not so much of a good price/performance but more of a "I've got the latest and the greatest despite how much sense it makes" card.

And your point?

Originally posted by: josh6079[*] The 8800GTX does not offer a pretty good value especially when the features giving it its value can be achieved for a lesser price through similar products (i.e. GTS, GT).

And I disagree. It's price/performance ratio is just as good, if not better, than the Geforce 7950GX2, considering it'll have a similiar MSRP, perform significantly faster, and offer all of the new features mentioned above.

Nelsieus

 

[josh6079]

Launch status refers to hardlaunch of paper-launch.

Could you clarify that for me? Are you saying that a products "launch status" is not affected by its price?

But you also said - " I mean, actually being able to buy the card and play a game instead of waiting comes hand in hand with a good video card launch, right?"

And? How does that make it sound like I think the G80 won't have a hard launch?

Again, I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but if it's to imply G80 won't be a hardlaunch, then you need to explain.

I thought I did explain. Where have I said that I don't think the G80 will be a hard launch?

Unless you are thinking that a hard launch is different than what I see as a hard launch. To me, a hard launch means that the products are available for purchase on its release day and that is a real purchase, not a pre-order or auto-notify or out-of-stock but you can buy anyway kind of purchase. A solid, buy now, ship tomorrow and it is at your door within 3 days or less.

In this regard, I think the 8800GTX will succeed in being classified as a hard launch.

I'm not sure how that's significant at this point. There's only a few people who got their hands on the card, and what I'm not hearing is shimmering or anything else negative that sticks out to them. That's a good sign, especially granted it's pre-released hardware with un-official drivers.

The glimpses I was refering to had settings that combated the shimmering effects enabled such as LOD bias "Clamped" and driver settings of "High Quality". I've heard from many nVidia users that such settings significantly reduce such effects, and from what I've seen in my own experience it does certainly help. I'm not saying that they didn't change their AF algorithm, just that I don't like the glimpses we've seen so far as far as IQ goes.

Also, the drivers used were included in the packaging of the card, were they not? Therefore the only thing that really makes them unofficial is the fact that Nvidia hasn't officially launched the product. It's not like they're going to go around and repackage the new official drivers on the 8th into all of the already sealed boxes containing the 8800GTX and its accessories.

And your point?

You can't have a card that is more of a "I've got the latest and the greatest despite how much sense it makes" card while still being a great value. It can't be both. The latest and the greatest hardly ever sell for reasonable prices, that's my point. The 8800GTX is not an exception.

And I disagree.

That's fine. I was just stating what I thought, nothing more.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Nelsieus

Originally posted by: thilan29Which game do you know of coming out will use 128-bit HDR??

We'll find out soon enough. There might even be games already supporting it and we just don't know.

Yes...that MUST be it. You're reaching a bit now don't you think? I'd love to be proven wrong though as whatever game that may be would look very nice.

Originally posted by: Nelsieus
Then apparently you are underestimating them just like Josh is with performance. I know it's hard for pro-reddies to get excited, but just admit G80 has surprised us and, quite frankly, is shaping up to be a gem.

I'VE ALREADY SAID I'll be getting it...is that enough proof that I think G80 will be marvelous??

Pro-reddies?? What's that about?? Anyone who isn't jumping up and down about G80 is an ATI fanboy(look at the current card in my sig... )?? So I guess you're an NVidia fanboy since all I see you do is argue with people who are NOT Nvidia fanboys and even side with over the top fanboys like Crusader. Frankly, from what I've seen you post lately, I think you are definitely a fanboy...but you try to act calm so you don't look so obnoxious.

I'm sorry but I'm not naive/ridiculous (take your pick) enough to believe that the company that a GPU comes from determines its worth rather than its performance and IQ (ie. like a classic fanboy would do). My last card was an X1800XL and I was able to get it fairly cheap and performed very well relative to the 7800GT (and had better IQ and overclocked to past X1800XT speeds) so I got that. My current 7900GTO I also got pretty cheap and gives great performance...even though the IQ is a bit lacking...it was only meant to be a stopgap until I got G80 anyway. I wish R600 would also come out at the same time so I can compare the performance and price (assuming similar IQ) and then decide. I somehow doubt you would even consider R600 even if it WERE out at the same time.

 

[Nelsieus]

Originally posted by: josh6079
Could you clarify that for me? Are you saying that a products "launch status" is not affected by its price?

The status of a launch means whether it is in good or poor supply. Good supply is indictive of a hardlaunch, whereas poor, or little supply, usually means a paperlaunch. I'm not sure how much more clear I can be. *shrugs

Originally posted by: josh6079I thought I did explain. Where have I said that I don't think the G80 will be a hard launch?

Your original statement was a refutation to my claim that it was valuable to buy a GPU to game on it instead of waiting for something newer. Your statement seemed to imply that that cannot be the caseif the GPU launches with poor availability. If that's what you really meant, then please explain your evidence to support it. If it's not what you meant, then you owe me an explanation of what you're trying to say.

Originally posted by: josh6079The glimpses I was refering to had settings that combated the shimmering effects enabled such as LOD bias "Clamped" and driver settings of "High Quality". I've heard from many nVidia users that such settings significantly reduce such effects, and from what I've seen in my own experience it does certainly help. I'm not saying that they didn't change their AF algorithm, just that I don't like the glimpses we've seen so far as far as IQ goes.

Speaking of AF, Mike finally did an AF test, and the results are quite impressive; quite significantly superior than ATI's, too.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1116603&page=28&pp=20

Originally posted by: josh6079You can't have a card that is more of a "I've got the latest and the greatest despite how much sense it makes" card while still being a great value. It can't be both. The latest and the greatest hardly ever sell for reasonable prices, that's my point. The 8800GTX is not an exception.

I guess that's simply an opinionated observation, in my opinion (no pun intended).

Anywho, those AF tests are really exciting. Finally some good news in the AF dept. from the green team, something that's been long awaited if I do say so myself.

Nelsieus