I expect a midrange card 2 generations newer to best the old $350 card.
I dont think its unreasonable, especially as they dont sell 6800GTs anymore.
I expect a midrange card 2 generations newer to best the old $350 card.
I dont think its unreasonable, especially as they dont sell 6800GTs anymore.
They aren't running a charity which means they are in the business to make money and I don't see them making all that much money from these. The OEMs will probably settle for the lower end OEM only cards or integrated because most people don't care and those looking for high performance from the OEM will go with the 8800. The only market I really see for these cards is joe average who doesn't do their research and I don't think thats all that big of a market. No they aren't running a charity it they were they might have more chance of getting my money then they do with the 8600.
Its not a horrible part, its place in real world performance and enthusiast's rigs will largely be determined by how well it overclocks. I wouldn't be shocked to see 30-50% OCs on these which would close the price to performance delta significantly vs. the competitor cards.
As I said months ago, the 320MB GTS looks like the card to get in the $200-300 arena if you're buying now. It was a steal then and its looking even better now. The 2900XT might trump it but I wouldn't be shocked to see NV discontinue the 320MB line since its clearly an aberration in terms of market segment.
As I said months ago, the 320MB GTS looks like the card to get in the $200-300 arena if you're buying now. It was a steal then and its looking even better now. The 2900XT might trump it but I wouldn't be shocked to see NV discontinue the 320MB line since its clearly an aberration in terms of market segment.
Originally posted by: yacoub
I also see now why I don't bother reading HardOCP anymore:
"New GeForce 8600 GTS Shines
If you have been waiting for a DX10 video card capable of playing today's games, your wait is over."
No, no it doesn't, and no, no it isn't. lol with that sort of language why even bother calling it a review? That's pure marketing and advertisement.
And the best part is reading through the comments for that review and seeing how people keep linking other reviews that show how mediocre the 8600GTS performance is, and then Kyle or a HardOCP fan will deride the other review site and claim "oh those other reviews just don't know wtf" but HardOCP should start to wonder when it's pretty much the ONLY one who is giving the card a glowing review and pretty much EVERYBODY else is saying it's a meager performer at best. But no, what are we thinking... Anandtech and all those other sites just don't know wtf. Yeah, ok Kyle.
Kyle has always been full of ****** and it wont change anytime soon it seems... Remember, he is the guy who benchmarked Core 2 Duo in gpu limited situations because "it reflects real world performance"
I cannot believe people still look at that site for reviews either:thumbsdown:You will not see overclocks like that, the ram is already at 2ghz and the core is near its max without upgraded cooling. (meaning water or better)
Any links to OC'ing results? I haven't seen any reviews touch it, but this review linked by someone in a different thread shows factory OC'd cards hitting much higher scores with modest 68MHz core and 100MHz RAM overclocks.
Not sure why you would think NV clocked these to the hilt out of the gate, G84 is on a smaller process, has 1/2 the # of transistors of a G80, uses less power and runs cooler. Original leaked specs had it running at a much higher clockspeed, 700-800MHz. Personally, based on G80 overclocking results I think you can hit 800MHz core with ease on air with the stock cooler. With the smaller memory bus and overall bandwidth, memory clock might actually mean something, but on the G80 it meant very little but ya I don't expect too much on the memory side.
Trust me Joe Average is a very large market. Id do quite well off of him (far better than I do off of performance peopel or budget buyers).
I know Joe Average is a big market but how many of them buy without doing any research? Most of the people I know when buying a computer checks it with someone who knows computers or they do their own research and so far the benchmarks aren't showing the 8600 in a very favorable light.
You will tell the Average Joe that 8600GTS its only way with that price range but he will never know the truth about X1950pro.
PingSpike
Lifer
- Feb 25, 2004
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This part sucks ass, plain and simple. Anyone considering it would be wise to spring the few extra bucks for the 8800gts 320mb and gain a butt-ton more performance. They really cut its balls off by giving it only 32 stream processors and 128bit memory. I think they really needed a 256bit 64sp part. It doesn't seem like the 128bit card with cranked clock speeds is going to cut it anymore.
Now the question is, will nvidia cut the prices down on this line or will they discontinue the 8800gts 320mb? Either way, they've got market segments stepping on eachothers toes here. The 320mb might have been meant as a stop gap, but its really making the 8600 series look bad here...especially now that there are some strong AR deals on it.
Even without Dx10 parts, this makes ATI existing dx9 series more attactive as a midrange option.
Now the question is, will nvidia cut the prices down on this line or will they discontinue the 8800gts 320mb? Either way, they've got market segments stepping on eachothers toes here. The 320mb might have been meant as a stop gap, but its really making the 8600 series look bad here...especially now that there are some strong AR deals on it.
Even without Dx10 parts, this makes ATI existing dx9 series more attactive as a midrange option.
Those (very few) that do ask about ATi products are simply told that I don't and won't stock them. They are more than welcome to buy elsewhere is an ATi card is what they want. No deception whatsoever.
With the arrival of the 886/84 I'm not sure x1950 will have much "Joe Average" mindshare left - Joe prefers features more than performance.
happy medium
Lifer
- Jun 8, 2003
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Quote from VR zone.
"At default voltage you can expect around 800MHz Core and 1160MHz Memory."
Not to shabby?
"At default voltage you can expect around 800MHz Core and 1160MHz Memory."
Not to shabby?
I'm certainly a little disappointed. I think a key question will be DX10 performance once we can measure that.
Truthfully, I can't keep a little nagging feeling from cropping up that nVidia hasn't shown us their real DX10 midrange plan here. There is just too much of a performance gap between it and the 8800 320. I get the feeling that a 64 shader, 256-bit card is in the works some place, if it isn't already ready to be released to manufacturing.
The overly cynical side of me wonders if we're not seeing nVidia's original, pre-R600-delay, version of the GTS. If I recall correctly, I saw several articles indicating that the GTS was going to have 64 shaders at the very least.
Truthfully, I can't keep a little nagging feeling from cropping up that nVidia hasn't shown us their real DX10 midrange plan here. There is just too much of a performance gap between it and the 8800 320. I get the feeling that a 64 shader, 256-bit card is in the works some place, if it isn't already ready to be released to manufacturing.
The overly cynical side of me wonders if we're not seeing nVidia's original, pre-R600-delay, version of the GTS. If I recall correctly, I saw several articles indicating that the GTS was going to have 64 shaders at the very least.
Gstanfor - there are a couple kinds of deception--active and passive. Withholding information until asked can easily be a form of deception. I wouldn't expect you to recommend a card that you don't sell, but that, in and of itself, is in fact a form of deception. If there is a better card that you won't (for whatever reason) sell, not telling a customer about it when they ask for your recommendation is a form of deception.
Again, I don't think it's unreasonable for you to not mention ATI until asked, but I do think that it can be a mild form of deception. If your customer asks, "what's the best graphics card in this price category?" and your response doesn't include better price/performance cards from ATI that you don't happen to sell, that's a deception, however mild and understandable.
[edited for grammar]
Again, I don't think it's unreasonable for you to not mention ATI until asked, but I do think that it can be a mild form of deception. If your customer asks, "what's the best graphics card in this price category?" and your response doesn't include better price/performance cards from ATI that you don't happen to sell, that's a deception, however mild and understandable.
[edited for grammar]
happy medium
Lifer
- Jun 8, 2003
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not wanting to take this further off topic, but, I don't consider it deceptive at all. It would be like going into an Atari dealership back in the day and asking the salesman if there was a better machine on offer - do you think the Atari salesman is going to reccomend an Amiga 500 over the 520 ST? Is the Ford dealer going to recommend the GM car?
I market the products I choose to carry, its that simple.
It looks like a mid range card /shrug
I am sure these will be pushed down 25-50 bucks and when ATI comes out with a part in the 200-250 range that beats the 8600GTS they will have to react.
There is an obvious market for a 64 shader product with a 256bit memory bus.
It isnt a bad product really, the die size sounds small with 33% the shaders of a 8800GTS and 25% the shaders of a 8800GTX.
I could see these making in roads into laptops.
I am sure these will be pushed down 25-50 bucks and when ATI comes out with a part in the 200-250 range that beats the 8600GTS they will have to react.
There is an obvious market for a 64 shader product with a 256bit memory bus.
It isnt a bad product really, the die size sounds small with 33% the shaders of a 8800GTS and 25% the shaders of a 8800GTX.
I could see these making in roads into laptops.
Gstanfor: Actually yes, the dealer personnel whose loyalty is to the customer with whom they hope to build a long term relationship will always assist the customer to the right product for their current need even if THEY don't sell it.
The customer who was given good advice will come back and will recommend friends to your dealership because they know you are trustworthy. The customer who you forced into one of your products and who hates every day of it will not only not come back but will trash your product AND YOU.
Then again I'm talking about integrity and honesty. That's rare anymore. People who act the way you describe are more interested in making a buck now, without concern to the future.
The customer who was given good advice will come back and will recommend friends to your dealership because they know you are trustworthy. The customer who you forced into one of your products and who hates every day of it will not only not come back but will trash your product AND YOU.
Then again I'm talking about integrity and honesty. That's rare anymore. People who act the way you describe are more interested in making a buck now, without concern to the future.
Hmmm I think they might've changed its moniker to the 8900GS (512MB, 256-bit, 64 shaders) in the last leaked roadmap I looked at, but who knows lol. Last I heard they scrapped the 8900s and were going straight to 9-series.
People are going to love or hate these, but either way its going to get the job done for the mainstream consumer. Looks like they do OC very well though, so the verdict is still out on these imo. I think the price needs to fall a bit though to make it a viable alternative to the 320MB GTS and upcoming 2900XT.
I can already say based on preliminary OC'ing results, you'd be crazy to buy a X1950pro or lower for the similar money unless you had serious issues with NV or concerns about their drivers.
First - I don't force anyone to buy anything. They are more than welcome to ship elsewhere if they so desire.
I've been in the PC business since 1996 now, and I'd say goodwill amongst my customers is one of my strengths. I hardly have to advertise, because my (happy) customers do my advertising for me.
And thats enough off topic, please.
I've been in the PC business since 1996 now, and I'd say goodwill amongst my customers is one of my strengths. I hardly have to advertise, because my (happy) customers do my advertising for me.
And thats enough off topic, please.
happy medium
Lifer
- Jun 8, 2003
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Says here the 8600gts is 52% faster in FEAR and 29% faster in Far Cry then the 7600gt.
http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=636&p=3
Edit: 83% faster in Prey and 28% faster in Quake 4 also.
why does hards review seems like its on par or better with x1950pro while the anandtech makes it look worse. which to believe......
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