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$84,854,827,200

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MovingTarget said:
That may be true, but Israel isn't threatening to wipe Iran off of the map. The $84,854827,200 question is what Iran would really do if/when it got nuclear weapons - if its bite could match its bark. If that answer is "use them on Israel", then yes, it does fall under "trying to continue to exist". Neither one of them should have nukes, IMHO...
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It's because Israel is more dangerous than Iran, and Iran is scared shitless. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option

Israel has a very powerful military and lots of nuclear weapons. They took the Palestinians land and treated them like 2nd class citizens. And we are supporting this? And why does Iran hate us? We surround them with our military, we have lots of bases all around their country, we invaded their neighbors. How would you feel if China invaded Mexico or Canada? Look at it from their perspective.

I think the US would be better off getting out of the middle east in the first place. And supporting Israel doesn't make any sense. They don't need help, they are fine, we need help. We are trillions in debt, when will someone in Washington realize this?
 
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Lithium381 said:
That's how all statistics are presented when combined with an opinion.. . attempting to be persuasive. Same reason the government doesn't report the REAL unemployment, it uses a different number so it doesn't look so bad; they're trying to convince you of something.
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Good point. Bad example. Every measure of unemployment excludes people not looking for work. That includes even those by Gallup and other private groups not affiliated with the government. There are good reasons for it, but that is beyond the scope of this thread.
 
bfdd said:
False, fuck them. They can join the union or take their toys and go home. I don't care if I'd "lose out".
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I agree with you on the part that they should join the union and start to pay their fair share of taxes. However, do you really want a bunch of violent religious fanatic Pals/Jews bums collecting welfare and get free medicare?
 
iGas said:
I agree with you on the part that they should join the union and start to pay their fair share of taxes. However, do you really want a bunch of violent religious fanatic Pals/Jews bums collecting welfare and get free medicare?
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No I don't, but if we're going to pay for it anyways, yes they should be forced to join our Union. It's absolutely bullshit that we give foreign aid to countries that have no intention of joining our "more perfect union".
 
So women who want contraceptives covered by private insurance are called "slutty whores who just want govt handouts bc they are too busy screwing to get a real job," yet we freely handover $85B to a first world country because they can't figure out how to share a 2000 year old pile of rubble with their neighbors?
 
Bitek said:
So women who want contraceptives covered by private insurance are called "slutty whores who just want govt handouts bc they are too busy screwing to get a real job," yet we freely handover $85B to a first world country because they can't figure out how to share a 2000 year old pile of rubble with their neighbors?
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I think that pile of rubble is at least 4000 years old.
Only in the last 2000 years has it become rubble and argued over.
 
EagleKeeper said:
I think that pile of rubble is at least 4000 years old.
Only in the last 2000 years has it become rubble and argued over.
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The arguments over it are even more recent than that. It was not until Islam was invented that arguments over it began. Before that, everyone agreed it was Israel's, they just argued over whether Israel should be an independant nation or part of a larger empire.

🙂
 
Nonsense, in the history of Palestine, the Persians and the Romans allowed varying degrees of Jewish autonomy over varring extents of the region, but the Assyrians, Babylonians, and Byzantines most obviously never "agreed it was Israel's" by any stretch.
 
cybrsage said:
The arguments over it are even more recent than that. It was not until Islam was invented that arguments over it began. Before that, everyone agreed it was Israel's, they just argued over whether Israel should be an independant nation or part of a larger empire.

🙂
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Not even close. Babylonian deportation? The Maccabean revolt? The Three Roman Wars? These were not times of Jewish freedom or autonomy. Much of Jewish culture and religion still bears the scars of these times (and the Holocaust). If you look at the Jewish holidays, many of them follow the rubric: they tried to kill us, they failed, we killed them, let's celebrate!

In fact by comparison, Jews in Israel received far, far better treatment under the Muslims than under any other occupiers the region has seen. Jews fought alongside the Muslims against the Crusaders, evacuated the region when the Crusaders took over, and returned with the Muslims again. This would repeat itself in Spain 400 years later.
 
kylebisme said:
Nonsense, in the history of Palestine, the Persians and the Romans allowed varying degrees of Jewish autonomy over varring extents of the region, but the Assyrians, Babylonians, and Byzantines most obviously never "agreed it was Israel's" by any stretch.
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Byzantines came so much fucking later, who the fuck cares what they think? Assyrians and Babylonians I can give you that.
 
The Byzantines took over Palestine from the Romans and lost it to the Muslims, and I listed all the rulers of the land between the fall of Biblical Israel and Muslim rule in response to Cybersage's absurd claim.
 
schneiderguy said:
That's how much foreign aid the US has given Israel.

Why are we funding religious extremism in the Middle East? That's 84 billion dollars in support of death and destruction caused by the Israeli presence in the region.
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Because others are funding religious extremism in Israel's neighbors? Would you prefer that they were wiped off the map?
 
WD, going polar opposite is not a way to come to a rational conclusion.

"Oh, you don't want to marry her? Well, do you want to kill her then??!?"

>wark<
 
EagleKeeper said:
Pull the plug on Egypt, Turkey, Jordan, the Palestinians as well.

And while you are at it, hand over your computer to Goodwill. Parts were designed in Israel.

We understand that you want nothing to do with Israel or be associated with them.

But just ask how come we were able to roll through Iraq twice so easily. Advanced intel on weapon systems. Saved a few lives
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Advanced intel on weapon systems? I'm sure if we saved the billions that we gave them we could use that money for intel on weapons system, design our own computer parts and what not, and more.
 
Again, the answer is not that simple.

I think there were several GOOD ideas (restoring the Jewish presence, especially after the holocaust, having a foothold in the middle east...), but that has been twisted after a few generations of fighting.

Humans do that kind of thing you know.
 
mafia said:
Advanced intel on weapon systems? I'm sure if we saved the billions that we gave them we could use that money for intel on weapons system, design our own computer parts and what not, and more.
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So how are we to know the capabilities of the Russian SAMs and Rolands for examples?

Go down to the local market and pick up a couple for $25M each?

Apparently we also design computer parts; but not as well in some regards. Therefore we should use less inferior products?
 
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