PingSpike
Lifer
- Feb 25, 2004
- 21,765
- 615
- 126
True enough. What a fucking toilet that was. This bill looks overall pretty stupid, but after seeing "Failed bank CEO undeserved bonus bailout package" my concept of stupid bills has been rocked to the core!
I think we should have just created massive government run banks to fill the gap left by the failing giants and let them twist in the wind. Then spin them off later. I don't really like the idea, but it sure beats the horseshit we ended up with instead.
At least you're spending it wisely, your SO is going to need that degree when inflation hits 20+% in 2-3 years.
I'll take option #3 - no stimulus bill whatsoever. Either one is just piling on the debt, which can't be healthy in the long-term. This stimulus is like a fat person feeling depressed about his weight, so he decides to go to an all-you-can-eat buffet and dessert bar to lift his depression. Sure, he's going to feel better in the short term when he leaves, but he'll be even fatter in the long-term, and no better off.
Yup. A lot of big ones - and little ones, too. From initial ideas to completion.
And it never ceases to amaze me how people (ie, state and local gov'ts) are never prepared to take advantage of opportunities like this.
We always had a list of prioritized projects with preliminary engineering complete and specifications prepared for bid. We were ready to go to work in 90 days - essentially time to post with the AGC, request for RFPs, advertising, pre-bid conferences, bid-openings and let's say 30 days for mobilization.
I'm willing to wager that there is similar preparation today with folks ready for the opportunity, but far from what is needed overall.
There has also been focus and practice over the last ten years of 'fast-track' and stream-lining of procedures, minimization strategies and the use of flexible mitigation.
But the biggest issue I saw in my (previous) government service was just a plain lack of qualified people to do the work - from engineering, inspection and administration - to the contractors themselves.
Everybody hates the idea of burgeoning bureaucracies but there is just an incredible need for qualified people in gov't.
If Obama does anything in his 4/8 years I hope his administration can weed out the Yahoos and encourage a new generation of competent and qualified public servants.
CPA
Elite Member
- Nov 19, 2001
- 30,322
- 4
- 0
I prosper because I work my ass off, not because I count on government to give me a tax credit for buying a house (WTF?) or pell grants to go to college. In fact, because I've worked my ass off, I don't get the luxury of those entitlements. I also don't get the luxury of reduced mortgage obligation or rate because my mortgage payments are current. I also don't get the luxury in getting grants, hope credit or Lifetime Learning credit for my wife, who's going back to school, because I apparently make too much.
If this sounds like sour grapes, well, yeah, you're right.
I had to read HR-01 in its entirety for a paper. (yeah 671 pages)
The gist:
-Education spending to make up for all the lost property tax revenue.
-Expanded welfare budgets to cover the newly and future unemployed.
-Expanded health care for children.
-Renovation of NASA, DOA, DOD, USGS, Museums, Schools, Public State Universities, Hospitals, Veterans Affairs Buildings, Section 8 housing, low income housing, and more for energy efficiency and general repairs.
-Repair of highways, roads, bridges, sewers, flood walls, and other infrastructure.
-Expanded college tuition funding through PELL.
-Expanded childcare for parents in college
-funding to states who are in a budget crisis due to lost tax revenue
-Buying a new fleet of fuel efficient vehicles for government agencies
-Research grants for alternative fuel and battery technology
-Renovation of national parks, restoration of national monuments, increased care of national cemetaries
-Earmarks for medicare efficiency research projects designed to improve the efficiency of medicare programs in the long term
-Unprecedented transparency and oversight through all public bidding, Inspector Generals, and an all public approval process via recovery.gov
The gist:
-Education spending to make up for all the lost property tax revenue.
-Expanded welfare budgets to cover the newly and future unemployed.
-Expanded health care for children.
-Renovation of NASA, DOA, DOD, USGS, Museums, Schools, Public State Universities, Hospitals, Veterans Affairs Buildings, Section 8 housing, low income housing, and more for energy efficiency and general repairs.
-Repair of highways, roads, bridges, sewers, flood walls, and other infrastructure.
-Expanded college tuition funding through PELL.
-Expanded childcare for parents in college
-funding to states who are in a budget crisis due to lost tax revenue
-Buying a new fleet of fuel efficient vehicles for government agencies
-Research grants for alternative fuel and battery technology
-Renovation of national parks, restoration of national monuments, increased care of national cemetaries
-Earmarks for medicare efficiency research projects designed to improve the efficiency of medicare programs in the long term
-Unprecedented transparency and oversight through all public bidding, Inspector Generals, and an all public approval process via recovery.gov
dainthomas
Lifer
- Dec 7, 2004
- 14,964
- 3,952
- 136
One of my points was that government spending (on war) helped get us out.
My other point was that cutting a tax that no one is paying because everyone is losing money isn't going to solve crap.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123310466514522309.html
Oh, and don't forget education, which would get $66 billion more. That's more than the entire Education Department spent a mere 10 years ago and is on top of the doubling under President Bush. Some $6 billion of this will subsidize university building projects. If you think the intention here is to help kids learn, the House declares on page 257 that "No recipient . . . shall use such funds to provide financial assistance to students to attend private elementary or secondary schools." Horrors: Some money might go to nonunion teachers.
ProfJohn
Lifer
- Jul 28, 2006
- 18,161
- 7
- 0
That is all the nice stuff, now list for us all the waste and pork.
$1 billion for Amtrack
$2 billion for childcare subsidies
$50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts??? <--WTF?
$400 million for global warming research <--that will create a lot of jobs
$2.4 BILLION for carbon-capture projects??
$6 billion for mass transit. How does that help stimulate the economy?
$54 billion to federal programs that have been declared 'ineffective' by the OMB
This isn't a stimulus package, it is a Democrat wish list.
A lot of you criticized Bush for taking advantage of 9-11 to push through a bunch of policy ideas that you disagree with.
Now it seems that Obama and the Democrats in congress are taking advantage of the slow economy to push through a bunch of spending that they would not be able to get through during a good economy.
Your prosperity is also based on the stability of the economy in addition to your hard work just like everyone else. Don't kid yourself. You need the rest of the country to be prospering too at least to a degree so that the econ doesn't collapse.
When it comes to the house credit, unless you and your wife's combined gross income is over $170k and you have not purchased a home in the last 3 years, then you qualify for it too if you choose to buy a home as your primary residence between now and July 1st. That is up to you just like it is up to me. We are not "counting" on that tax credit to buy a home, but it does help us buy it sooner and sooner is better for the econ right now. The sooner the econ gets better, the sooner your hard work starts to pay off more like it should.
When it comes to the Pell Grants, my SO gets them because we are not married and she qualifies. She works her ass off both in school and at work. Nothing wrong with her getting grants to go even further with her career which helps the econ once again and she will be paying the grants back in the form of future tax dollars that she pays as a result of a higher wage position.
Lastly, we both work our asses off just like you. We always have and we always will. This stuff is not welfare for those choosing not to work. This is a stimulus to help those who do work be able to spend more money and continue prospering in life. It helps you and it helps me.
Now I want to see Obama get his scalpel out and cut funding to all the government programs that don't work, as he said he would.
Amtrak is for repairs, will create jobs,
childcare subsidies is for people in college retraining because they lost their manufacturing job,
the national endowment is to maintain facilities that will be lost when philanthropic donations peter off because of the downturn
global warming and carbon capture projects will create jobs (i disagree with this one being useful in the long run though)
someone has to build/repair the mass transit...
Dont know where the 54B came from for ineffective.
Do you think the infrastructure fairy is gonna come wave a wand and send the govt a bill? This is a fully transparent process that will be done entirely through public bidding.
What a joke.....and such a huge waste of money. Sooner or later this is going to bite us in the ass.
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
This is very true. In NY state the government is grossly oversized anyway, a bloated fat lazy oaf. I'm disheartened to see that this recession will not force it to shrink as much as it otherwise should because it's being propped by the fed, which ultimately will cost me tax dollars anyway.
xavier You are speaking as if the positives of this stimulus are a given, giving no attention it seems to what it means to national debt and, dare I say, the culture of the country itself, which appears to be one with a decreasing reliance on "manning up", taking one's lumps, and getting sh*t done instead of whining and bitching.
The difference is all that government spending for WW went toward manufacturing products that put people to work like tanks, planes, guns, ships, ammo. It put people to work on the assembly line. It put people to work mining iron ore and coal to build stuff. This pork bill is nothing but a bunch of social programs that won't put people to work. I could live with such a huge bill if it went toward rebuilding our infrastructure putting people to work building shit. I just hope the republicans in the senate follow in the footsteps of the republicans in the house and every single one vote against this pork pretending to be a stimulus. If Obama and the democrats want pork and social spending put it in another bill.
When the government mans up and cuts spending then we can talk. Until government spending gets under control nothing can happen. The problem is government keeps spending more and more and more every single year. There is to much waste bloat and pork.
sciwizam
Golden Member
- Oct 22, 2004
- 1,953
- 0
- 0
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