8 Reasons Windows Users don't Switch

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: bearxor

Originally posted by: ShawnD1

Originally posted by: fisher
2 finger clicking is so much better than a right mouse button it's almost scary.

Are you serious or sarcastic?

I just started this thread so I don't know if this gets rosponded to later.

fisher is completely right. The two-finger tap for right clicking is far superior to a seperate right mouse button, at least IMHO. Hopefully Apple updates the boot camp drivers to include this soon in Windows.!

Sorry, two actions are not better than one. Its called a rotten attempt to overcome an acknowledge limitation with a kludge.

I have my Mac because it has a really nice screen (24) and I can run windows when I need to get stuff done Mac cannot do because lack of support.

 

[SoundTheSurrender]

I think it's sad that you guys are make or breaking on the click/scroll logistics of a computer.

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: bearxor

Originally posted by: ShawnD1

Originally posted by: fisher
2 finger clicking is so much better than a right mouse button it's almost scary.

Are you serious or sarcastic?

I just started this thread so I don't know if this gets rosponded to later.

fisher is completely right. The two-finger tap for right clicking is far superior to a seperate right mouse button, at least IMHO. Hopefully Apple updates the boot camp drivers to include this soon in Windows.!

Sorry, two actions are not better than one. Its called a rotten attempt to overcome an acknowledge limitation with a kludge.

I have my Mac because it has a really nice screen (24) and I can run windows when I need to get stuff done Mac cannot do because lack of support.

It isn't too actions, it is one. Since you have an iMac, you wouldnt understand. On the Apple trackpads you can place 2 fingers on the trackpad, tap them both to secondary click, or you can, while resting them both on the trackpad, click the single large button. It is one action either way, just with 2 fingers instead of one. Same with scrolling

 

[RedWolf]

What difference does it make what solution to the problem of not having a second button is built into what os? Why does windows need that? Windows computers all have a right mouse button. Why would anyone build it in?
That said, the two finger click works very well and is just as good as having a dedicated button. I have not had any trouble with it over vpn or remote desktop. I don't know why you would since it is doing a right click on the base os and should send that right click to the remote machine.

The main reasons not to switch are cost, configurability, and a crapload of software. I personally switched (at work) because it allowed me to get rid of a machine. I need to test pages in OS X and Windows and getting a macbook pro allowed me to do it all from one machine. I haven't switched at home because of cost and gaming.

 

[TheStu]

The only reason i brought it up was because Nothinman said the HP and Dells could do the same as MacBooks, and since they ship with Windows by default (mostly, you can get Dells with Ubuntu) so I wanted to know where one would configure that in Windows, the default OS.

 

[Nothinman]

EDIT: I don't know about RDP because we use VNC here for all server administration. It's never had a problem passing right mouse clicks or ctrl+alt+del. In fact, CAD is better on the Mac through VNC because I can simply press it on my keyboard. On a Windows machine I have to do the send keys function.

Why would you waste your time with VNC on Windows servers? IIRC Server 2000 and up let you setup RDP for remote administration in every edition and RDP is more efficient and secure than VNC. I usually just hit Windows-Key then W to get to the "Windows Security" entry on the Start Menu instead of worrying about Ctrl+Alt+Del even when I'm using RDP from Linux.

Also, if my memory serves me correctly, Apple was the first to ship a touchpad that allowed multiple finger taps and two-finger scrolling, which is awesome, too btw! Having to use one small portion of the trackpad for scrolling ftl!

Well I know that the Inspiron I had back in like 2000/2001 had it and Wikipedia says "late generation" PowerBooks and iBooks had that capability so I don't think Apple was first. And since Apple doesn't produce the hardware, I'm sure it's just an Alps or Synaptics device, it was probably put into other devices at the same time. BTW I didn't waste any of the touchpad space for scrolling, the one on my Alienware is wider than normal to make room for the scrolling portion.

So you are saying, that in windows I can go into the control panel and say that instead of using the right button, I want to have it do a left click (and the left button as well) and then, I can, in control panel, select that I want to be able to place 2 fingers onto the trackpad and then click the button(s) or tap the trackpad to perform a secondary click. If so, then yes, HP, Dell, et all do offer the exact same solution. But if I cannot do that, then no they do not. And what scroll wheel? You mean the scroll zone that is present on most trackpads today? Gah, what a waste of space. 2 finger scrolling beats out a scroll zone anyday of the week. Or are you going to tell me that I can do that too on an HP, Dell etc?

I don't have to put two fingers on the touchpad and then click anything to right click, I just tap with 2 fingers or hit the right button. Same thing with 3 fingers, it detects how many fingers are in the tap so it's one motion. But I have no clue about the control panels offered by anyone, I haven't used Windows on a notebook in years.

I think it's sad that you guys are make or breaking on the click/scroll logistics of a computer.

Not really, it's one of the things you'll be using the most so if you don't like how it works it'll kill your experience with the box.

The only reason i brought it up was because Nothinman said the HP and Dells could do the same as MacBooks, and since they ship with Windows by default (mostly, you can get Dells with Ubuntu) so I wanted to know where one would configure that in Windows, the default OS.

Find someone at work with one and ask to see their notebook, it can't be too hard to find a person with a Dell/HP with Windows on it. =)

 

[TheStu]

OK, so let me make sure we are clear. You are saying that on a Dell, a person can place a second finger on the trackpad and then click the left button and it will act as a right click? Because I am 99% sure that I have tried that on my friend's Inspiron, but I could be wrong.

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: TheStu
OK, so let me make sure we are clear. You are saying that on a Dell, a person can place a second finger on the trackpad and then click the left button and it will act as a right click? Because I am 99% sure that I have tried that on my friend's Inspiron, but I could be wrong.

You need to configure it in the touchpad's options. Windows itself doesn't have touchpad options, but laptops have preinstalled drivers to configure things like that. On my HP laptop, it's a red icon that sits in the system tray.

 

[Boo Boo]

reason 9 - windows 90% of apps

mac - 10%

 

[TheStu]

Reason 9 moot since new macs can run Windows if you absolutely can not find replacements for your software. Really the only major thing that is not available on OS X is CAD.

 

[Ichigo]

Originally posted by: ShawnD1

Originally posted by: TheStu
OK, so let me make sure we are clear. You are saying that on a Dell, a person can place a second finger on the trackpad and then click the left button and it will act as a right click? Because I am 99% sure that I have tried that on my friend's Inspiron, but I could be wrong.

You need to configure it in the touchpad's options. Windows itself doesn't have touchpad options, but laptops have preinstalled drivers to configure things like that. On my HP laptop, it's a red icon that sits in the system tray.

"things like that" don't exist on Windows machines. The touchpads themselves have no hardware capabilities to understand the fact that someone has two fingers on the trackpad in the way that would be required to perform right clicks as Macs do.

 

[Hulk]

Cute article but woefully limited in scope.

There are quite a few Windows users like myself that use Windows XP or Vista because it works for them and works well. I have no issues with XP. It gives me no problems and I can't remember the last time it crashed. It is transparent to me, just like I want my OS to be.

In addition,

I can have a 3.2GHz system, i.e. the one in my sig for less than $1000. Customized exactly to my specifications.

It is easily and inexpensively upgradeabe.

With access to literally thousands of applications.

In short I love the Windows platform for those reasons. It not only "works" for me but I can' build a very powerful system for a small amount of money.

I can only speak to my experience.

 

[Boo Boo]

Originally posted by: TheStu
Reason 9 moot since new macs can run Windows if you absolutely can not find replacements for your software. Really the only major thing that is not available on OS X is CAD.

just run rhino under parallels

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
I don't have to put two fingers on the touchpad and then click anything to right click, I just tap with 2 fingers or hit the right button.

FYI, on my MacBook Pro, I just tap the trackpad with two fingers and it does a rightclick. Two finger scrolling is great, too.

 

[spittledip]

1. I am sorry, but I have never understood how Macs are considered to be user friendly. I have not found OSX to be intuitive at all- found it to be needlessly confusing. However, I think this point is moot in general b/c "intuitive" is relative to the user.

3. Hours of time fixing his own computer? What is the guy doing that his PC is breaking down? Windows XP never crashes on me. Ever. I am not sure who has experience with XP crashing other than a virus generated crash.. I can understand if people crashed 98 or ME, but 2000 and up, I have found to be rock stable.

4. Why buy a Mac that can do no more than a PC? Apple seems to be all about trendiness. Apples are "cool" or something silly like that. Who cares about cool? I want maximum functionality for minimum dollar. If you want to spend extra money on being "cool", be my guest. I am too old to be concerned with "coolness."

5. Those commercials are misleading and truth-twisting. It is true that Macs don't get as many viruses as PC, but as has been stated many times before, hackers and virus writers generally go for the biggest efect. Not enough people use OSX for them to waste time writing viruses for it. Once Macs get more popular, you will see more viruses pop up for it. Of course, I have to wonder at the people who get viruses..

As far as I can tell, the only thing Macs do have going is that they are well supplied with apps that come with the OS. Other than that, I don't get the hype. Of course it seems to me that Apple is mostly about hype and faddism anyway.

 

[SoundTheSurrender]

Originally posted by: Hulk
Cute article but woefully limited in scope.

There are quite a few Windows users like myself that use Windows XP or Vista because it works for them and works well. I have no issues with XP. It gives me no problems and I can't remember the last time it crashed. It is transparent to me, just like I want my OS to be.

In addition,

I can have a 3.2GHz system, i.e. the one in my sig for less than $1000. Customized exactly to my specifications.

It is easily and inexpensively upgradeabe.

With access to literally thousands of applications.

In short I love the Windows platform for those reasons. It not only "works" for me but I can' build a very powerful system for a small amount of money.

I can only speak to my experience.

You are known as a enthusiast. You make up a small percentage of users. There are thousands of windows apps and a lot of them are garbage, you get 100 choices of software that all do the same thing cept 95 of then suck. Just because you have no issues doesn't mean the average population doesn't either. Everyone I know who isn't a big time PC user has had hell with Windows XP.

 

[TheStu]

1: I find it to be quite intuitive, but to each their own. I can generally get more work done in the same amount of time on OS X than I could in Windows, not necessarily a huge amount more, but more none the less.

3: Although my XP systems were/are very stable, what irritated me the most when I was using XP was that all too often, if an individual program crashed, the whole OS would go down enough that a restart was necessary. As time went one this became less of an issue, but it persisted. On OS X, I almost never (we are talking less than 1% of the time) have a program crash and then take down everything else. Since I run a lot of beta software, crashes are to be expected on any OS, but in OS X those crashes do not affect the OS as a whole.

4: I really have nothing to say here since you seem to have your mind made up, which is fine, I have my mind made up as well.

5: I agree, there is no reason for a person with an iota of common sense to be able to surf the web without fear of viruses. Since I am on a platform that has reduced marketshare, and any other reasons for virus freedom, I can surf the web with extra super impunity.

I was basically in the exact same camp as you when I got my MacBook. I got it because I was going to be studying Software Engineering and we had to have laptops, and the MacBook seemed the most versatile for the price and size. I had always intended to use OS X, but never as my primary OS since I was much more used to Windows. However, for the first month or so that I had it, I was unable to install Windows at all for whatever reason, so I was 'forced' to use OS X. I ended up really liking it, and now it is my OS of choice, and Apple is my system maker of choice, mostly because I feel that their prices are generally decent, albeit at times more than competitors, and they are the only ones that can legally ship OS X.

 

[TheStu]

Double Post, Sorry

 

[Nothinman]

OK, so let me make sure we are clear. You are saying that on a Dell, a person can place a second finger on the trackpad and then click the left button and it will act as a right click? Because I am 99% sure that I have tried that on my friend's Inspiron, but I could be wrong.

No, that would be stupid since you already have a right mouse button on the touchpad. You can tap the pad with two fingers and that'll be a right mouse click. Actually I have no idea if your method would work or not since that would've never occurred to me to try since there's a second mouse button there.

reason 9 - windows 90% of apps

mac - 10%

Sadly that's a pretty bad reason since 99% of those 90% of apps are total and utter crap.

Reason 9 moot since new macs can run Windows if you absolutely can not find replacements for your software. Really the only major thing that is not available on OS X is CAD.

I wouldn't really consider having to buy and run 2 OSes on your Mac a selling point...

"things like that" don't exist on Windows machines. The touchpads themselves have no hardware capabilities to understand the fact that someone has two fingers on the trackpad in the way that would be required to perform right clicks as Macs do.

So you're saying that Apple either produces all of the hardware in their touchpads themselves or has an exclusive contract with a company like Synaptics, Alps? And that all this time I've been able to tap on my touchpad with two fingers to get a right click and it's not actually been working? Some magic fluke has been causing that menu to pop up by coincidence when I did that? How much of the kool-aide have you been drinking?

 

[spittledip]

Originally posted by: TheStu
1: I find it to be quite intuitive, but to each their own. I can generally get more work done in the same amount of time on OS X than I could in Windows, not necessarily a huge amount more, but more none the less.

3: Although my XP systems were/are very stable, what irritated me the most when I was using XP was that all too often, if an individual program crashed, the whole OS would go down enough that a restart was necessary. As time went one this became less of an issue, but it persisted. On OS X, I almost never (we are talking less than 1% of the time) have a program crash and then take down everything else. Since I run a lot of beta software, crashes are to be expected on any OS, but in OS X those crashes do not affect the OS as a whole.

4: I really have nothing to say here since you seem to have your mind made up, which is fine, I have my mind made up as well.

5: I agree, there is no reason for a person with an iota of common sense to be able to surf the web without fear of viruses. Since I am on a platform that has reduced marketshare, and any other reasons for virus freedom, I can surf the web with extra super impunity.

I was basically in the exact same camp as you when I got my MacBook. I got it because I was going to be studying Software Engineering and we had to have laptops, and the MacBook seemed the most versatile for the price and size. I had always intended to use OS X, but never as my primary OS since I was much more used to Windows. However, for the first month or so that I had it, I was unable to install Windows at all for whatever reason, so I was 'forced' to use OS X. I ended up really liking it, and now it is my OS of choice, and Apple is my system maker of choice, mostly because I feel that their prices are generally decent, albeit at times more than competitors, and they are the only ones that can legally ship OS X.

Fair enough.

I have never owned a laptop or notebook- a bit too expensive for my blood.

I think if Apple really wanted to be competitive it would allow users to build their own.. but Apple is very much about proprietary stuff and control over the end product (as noted with the new Iphone patch addressing the hack), so that right there alienates alot of people also. Possibly the idea is quality control, which is understandable, but that will always mean higher prices than PCs. I think it is a matter of personal opinion alone as each system has its areas that could be improved, be it technical or otherwise. My thing is that I dislike the commercials that are intentionally misleading (Most commercials are to a degree though I suppose) and the erroneous idea that it is better to use one over the other. In the end it matters what you want to do and what you like or enjoy about computers that makes you choose one over the other.

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

OK, so let me make sure we are clear. You are saying that on a Dell, a person can place a second finger on the trackpad and then click the left button and it will act as a right click? Because I am 99% sure that I have tried that on my friend's Inspiron, but I could be wrong.

No, that would be stupid since you already have a right mouse button on the touchpad. You can tap the pad with two fingers and that'll be a right mouse click. Actually I have no idea if your method would work or not since that would've never occurred to me to try since there's a second mouse button there.

reason 9 - windows 90% of apps

mac - 10%

Sadly that's a pretty bad reason since 99% of those 90% of apps are total and utter crap.

Reason 9 moot since new macs can run Windows if you absolutely can not find replacements for your software. Really the only major thing that is not available on OS X is CAD.

I wouldn't really consider having to buy and run 2 OSes on your Mac a selling point...

"things like that" don't exist on Windows machines. The touchpads themselves have no hardware capabilities to understand the fact that someone has two fingers on the trackpad in the way that would be required to perform right clicks as Macs do.

So you're saying that Apple either produces all of the hardware in their touchpads themselves or has an exclusive contract with a company like Synaptics, Alps? And that all this time I've been able to tap on my touchpad with two fingers to get a right click and it's not actually been working? Some magic fluke has been causing that menu to pop up by coincidence when I did that? How much of the kool-aide have you been drinking?

About your 2 finger tapping... I am assuming that this is in some flavor of linux that you are doing this, simply because anytime in the past (as in 6 months ago + ) that I have used a friend's dell, or alienware, or toshiba, or HP if I placed a second finger on the trackpad, the cursor would fly across the screen and then start acting erratically. And this was all in Windows, so maybe that is the issue.

You know, I honestly cannot remember why we are arguing about this anyway

 

[Nothinman]

About your 2 finger tapping... I am assuming that this is in some flavor of linux that you are doing this, simply because anytime in the past (as in 6 months ago + ) that I have used a friend's dell, or alienware, or toshiba, or HP if I placed a second finger on the trackpad, the cursor would fly across the screen and then start acting erratically. And this was all in Windows, so maybe that is the issue.

They probably removed or messed with the touchpad config then because the hardware is capable.

You know, I honestly cannot remember why we are arguing about this anyway

Because you seemed to think that Apple's offering of the same solution was better because MS doesn't bundle a touchpad control panel in their base OS and instead leave it up to the OEM.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: jagec
9)Right-click. Seriously. One of my few consistent complaints about macs is the neolithic mouse. Maybe a single button was great back in 1980 when people still had to get used to computers, but we're past that now. Yes, you can get another mouse (and you should for a desktop...the mouse is one of the weakest pieces of the Apple hardware lineup), but even so the OS isn't as completely set up for multi-button mouses as the PC. And you're kinda stuck on a laptop.

that falls under ignorance. 2 finger clicking is so much better than a right mouse button it's almost scary.

We have G4 desktops at work, with the second-worse mouse Apple ever made. No options for right-click w/o the keyboard.

Originally posted by: TheStu

Oh, throw in another vote of Awesome for 2 finger right clicking and scrolling. Having 2 physical buttons is anachronistic and lame.

Physical buttons pwn touchscreen/touchpad. Much less chance of false inputs. Which is better: using a touchpad to move the cursor around a screen, or physically dragging a big mouse across a mousepad?

Touchscreen/touchpads exist because of space constraints. Not because they are better, because they are NOT. If buttons were so anachronistic, there wouldn't be any mouse button at all on a touchpad laptop.

Originally posted by: TheStu
3: Although my XP systems were/are very stable, what irritated me the most when I was using XP was that all too often, if an individual program crashed, the whole OS would go down enough that a restart was necessary. As time went one this became less of an issue, but it persisted. On OS X, I almost never (we are talking less than 1% of the time) have a program crash and then take down everything else. Since I run a lot of beta software, crashes are to be expected on any OS, but in OS X those crashes do not affect the OS as a whole.

Interestingly enough, I've had the opposite experience. When a Windows app crashes on my home computer, it boots me back to the desktop. When Firefox or Matlab freezes up on the OS X work computer, there's nothing to do but restart.

I do think that OS X is better than Windows in most circumstances, but not head-and-shoulders better, and there are certainly plenty of scenarios where a user would be better served with Windows.

 

[Nothinman]

Which is better: using a touchpad to move the cursor around a screen, or physically dragging a big mouse across a mousepad?

Both work equally well for me, the only problem I have with touchpads is the constant rubbing of my finger on the pad and that's probably just me pushing too hard.

Touchscreen/touchpads exist because of space constraints. Not because they are better, because they are NOT. If buttons were so anachronistic, there wouldn't be any mouse button at all on a touchpad laptop.

If they sucked that bad every laptop would be using nipple mice instead.

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: TheStu

Oh, throw in another vote of Awesome for 2 finger right clicking and scrolling. Having 2 physical buttons is anachronistic and lame.

Physical buttons pwn touchscreen/touchpad. Much less chance of false inputs. Which is better: using a touchpad to move the cursor around a screen, or physically dragging a big mouse across a mousepad?

Touchscreen/touchpads exist because of space constraints. Not because they are better, because they are NOT. If buttons were so anachronistic, there wouldn't be any mouse button at all on a touchpad laptop.

Originally posted by: TheStu
3: Although my XP systems were/are very stable, what irritated me the most when I was using XP was that all too often, if an individual program crashed, the whole OS would go down enough that a restart was necessary. As time went one this became less of an issue, but it persisted. On OS X, I almost never (we are talking less than 1% of the time) have a program crash and then take down everything else. Since I run a lot of beta software, crashes are to be expected on any OS, but in OS X those crashes do not affect the OS as a whole.

Interestingly enough, I've had the opposite experience. When a Windows app crashes on my home computer, it boots me back to the desktop. When Firefox or Matlab freezes up on the OS X work computer, there's nothing to do but restart.

I do think that OS X is better than Windows in most circumstances, but not head-and-shoulders better, and there are certainly plenty of scenarios where a user would be better served with Windows.

Personally I think that using a touchpad is at time better than a mouse, especially when you are talking about laptops, but even in some desktop situations. Having the cursor control interface right there below or beside the keyboard close enough that using it doesn't require too much movement (as opposed to a mouse) is a boon if you are both typing, and moving the cursor a lot.

There are rumors that Apple will be moving to an entirely touch based trackpad, with no button whatsoever. Regardless of that, I said that having 2 buttons is anachronistic, not having buttons period. Why have 2 buttons when 1 can get the job done, which it can on my laptop.

As far as Matlab or Firefox crashing the whole OS... I can't really speak to that. I only had Matlab on my system for a short amount of time before i uninstalled it. It was just to stinking kludgy on OS X. I ended up running it in Parallels instead since that gave me about the same performance anyway. And I don't use Firefox because it was so unstable, and doesn't play nice with OS X.