$8 hr new Breadwinner Benchmark for U.S. & No Insurance

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: rjain

Yeah. So they broke the law. What do you have against illegal immigrants working for opportunity in the Land of Opportunity anyway? If we lost tax revenues on the pay Walmart gave out because of these shenanigans, then I'll oppose it. Otherwise, they were just following the American Dream. Or do you have to be "approved" in order to qualify for that? Maybe it's just that the "Common Working Man" has been "unapproved", like those "illegals" weren't "approved".

"So they broke the Law?"

There you go, the more and more you post, the more clear how anti-american you actually are, go ahead keep posting your rhetoric.

"What do you have against illegal immigrants working for opportunity in the Land of Opportunity they were just following the American Dream."

What American Dream. Can you read? These are illegals from another Country, they sap the American system and send the cash they get back to the Country they came from, more like a Foreigners Dream. They are literally getting OUR cake and EATING it too.

When the Country is renamed Unestedes de Mexico you won't be able to call it the American Dream anymore, it will be the Mexican Dream.

That's OK, there are apparently more people like rjain that want the Country to be all one big Espanol Country than English anyway and they will be the majority population so it's OK. Just a silent Revolution in the works.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: rjain

Yeah. So they broke the law. What do you have against illegal immigrants working for opportunity in the Land of Opportunity anyway? If we lost tax revenues on the pay Walmart gave out because of these shenanigans, then I'll oppose it. Otherwise, they were just following the American Dream. Or do you have to be "approved" in order to qualify for that? Maybe it's just that the "Common Working Man" has been "unapproved", like those "illegals" weren't "approved".

"So they broke the Law?"

There you go, the more and more you post, the more clear how anti-american you actually are, go ahead keep posting your rhetoric.

"What do you have against illegal immigrants working for opportunity in the Land of Opportunity they were just following the American Dream."

What American Dream. Can you read? These are illegals from another Country, they sap the American system and send the cash they get back to the Country they came from, more like a Foreigners Dream. They are literally getting OUR cake and EATING it too.

When the Country is renamed Unestedes de Mexico you won't be able to call it the American Dream anymore, it will be the Mexican Dream.

That's OK, there are apparently more people like rjain that want the Country to be all one big Espanol Country than English anyway and they will be the majority population so it's OK. Just a silent Revolution in the works.

Hold on just a second. The workers are here ILLEGALLY. Yes they broke the law. So did Walmart. Now as far as them wanting to experience the "American Dream" - I don't have a problem with that - just go through the proper channels - just like people that immigrate here from other countries have to do. They are more than entitled to work here once they have proper gov't authorization - and infact I(as a cheap labor Conservative

) like the fact that they come in and work here. However, calling rjain's posts "anti-american" is just a tad over the top, but then again - so is sayint that Walmart is "evil" and anti-American. Walmart provides much more than just low wage jobs stocking shelves and running cash registers. There are Management positions, Shipping positions, Warehousing, Truck driving, etc. And that doesn't even mention the dock workers and cargo ship crew.....
Yeah, go ahead and blame Walmart for actually becomeing a shining example of what the American dream can be. Sam wasn't "rich" - he was a self made man who worked his ass off to eventually build the huge entity that Walmart has become. Sure, after his departure, things have shifted, and profits are of more concern than in the past, but you have to think....how many people's jobs would be affected if Walmart didn't stay in business

CkG

 

[rjain]

dmcowen: Care to respond to my statements about who is entitled to the American Dream and who isn't and why not? Or will you continue to simply spew rhetoric claiming that I am "unumericun" because I'm not anti-human?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: rjain

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

I'll never "lose" my job, because I won't be petulant about how much I am entitled to making.

I guess that can be classified as "Famous Last Words". I guess most of us aren't prepared to suffer the indignation of being considered worthless or having over expectations when when it comes to the job market. Maybe the Capitalistic System that you embbrace is not the same System that we were led to believe would help us prosper as individuals if we were to work hard!

No, that IS the same system that helps us prosper as individuals if we work hard. Do a job worth paying for and you'll be paid. I don't see why you shuold be entitled to being paid more than someone else for doing the same job. If you do the job better or faster and create more value for your employer or customers, then why shouldn't you be paid more? You just need to find people who find your labor valuable. No one who hires you to do a job finds your person to be worthless. There's a difference between a business associate and a friend. You pay a business associate and he or she does work for you. It has nothing to do with whether the person likes you or not, if they are interested in running a good business. Of course, sometimes it's easier and more productive to work with people you like, but that's still a business argument. Please get over the idea that people are entitled to handouts just because they think that time should stand still.

Working for a living is not receiving handouts. When someones been doing his job well for over 20 years and then finds himself out of work due to his job being sent overseas so some peasant in a sweatshop can do it for pennies on the dollar just so His employer can increase his profit margin it doesn't help America in the slightest.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: rjain
dmcowen: Care to respond to my statements about who is entitled to the American Dream and who isn't and why not? Or will you continue to simply spew rhetoric claiming that I am "unumericun" because I'm not anti-human?

That's simple: Americans (or those here legally) are "entitled" to the pursuit of the "American Dream".

That's not rhetoric, that's fact and the Law.

 

[DealMonkey]

What if the U.S. simply allows unlimited legal immigration? Do you have any problem with that?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
What if the U.S. simply allows unlimited legal immigration? Do you have any problem with that?

It would make matters worse. Yes.

CkG

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
What if the U.S. simply allows unlimited legal immigration? Do you have any problem with that?

It would make matters worse. Yes.

CkG

So, I guess the bottom line is: You don't want these people here regardless of whether they're legal or not.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
What if the U.S. simply allows unlimited legal immigration? Do you have any problem with that?

It would make matters worse. Yes.

CkG

So, I guess the bottom line is: You don't want these people here regardless of whether they're legal or not.

No - that's not what I said.

CkG

 

[Corn]

What if the U.S. simply allows unlimited legal immigration? Do you have any problem with that?

A ridiculous question leading to your expected response to CkG's answer. Who didn't see that coming from a mile away?

 

[DealMonkey]

I know this is going OT a bit, but what if we put the military on the borders? Do you think that would stem illegal immigration?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Corn

What if the U.S. simply allows unlimited legal immigration? Do you have any problem with that?

A ridiculous question leading to your expected response to CkG's answer. Who didn't see that coming from a mile away?

Yep, exactly why I fed him

DM - Are there only 2 choices? totally open or troops on the border? Seems to me you aren't looking for an answer - your looking at extremes.

CkG

 

[Corn]

No - that's not what I said.

Actually it is what you said. The only thing is that the context was missing--instead you've just fallen victim to the tired liberal tactic of race or class baiting. Of course unrestricted legal immigration would never see the light of day, neither here nor any other western democracy--and for good reason. That point, of course, wasn't addressed, and instead DealMonkey has simply decided to derail the argument into assailing your character because of your implied racism against "these people".

You fell for the oldest liberal trick in the book.......

 

[DealMonkey]

Yeah, that's me - a "liberal trickster." Tricks are for rabbits, Corn.

Seriously you two, if you don't put the military on the borders and/or figure out some way to stop illegal immigration, they're going to come here. In droves. Once they're here, now what do you do? Kick 'em back out? I live in Southern California and I see the federal government doing virtually nothing. And you know what the result is? The state and the taxpayers end up paying the bill.

Personally, I don't care if they open the borders or completely secure the borders, either way, if they're here we need to get them into the system and paying their fair share of taxes and fees. What other solutions are there?

 

[Corn]

Once they're here, now what do you do? Kick 'em back out?

Yep.

What other solutions are there?

Kick 'em back out.

The "illegal immigration problem" is simply the result of the fact that it's known that the penalties, if any, are minimal at best if caught. What's the deterrence?

At this point, nothing. Hence, this problem will continue. What do they have to lose, the only thing on the line is they get a plane ticket back home...........

How about we jail illegal immigrants for a set period of time, hard labor--perhaps building fences.........

 

[DealMonkey]

I guess my point, Corn, is that kicking 'em back out in SoCal simply isn't working. It's a never-ending revolving door here and there simply isn't the federal effort happening to either ensure that (A) the border is hardened, and/or (B) that immigration quotas match reality. The current effort doesn't work, so we need some new approach.

 

[Corn]

The current effort doesn't work, so we need some new approach.

Jail 'em, hard labor, 6 months first offense. Tack on a 5 years for each subsequent offense.......

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I know this is going OT a bit, but what if we put the military on the borders? Do you think that would stem illegal immigration?

Actually why is the Military not stationed on our borders especially in this post 9-11 era? Not just to screen for Terrorists but would also put a serious dent in the freeflowing illegal immigrant crossing situation we have had for way too long now.

I would've certainly advocated getting the Miltary on our borders before shipping them off to Iraq.

Wouldn't it make sense to turn the lock at home before trying to install a lock on the other side of the planet first?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Corn

The current effort doesn't work, so we need some new approach.

Jail 'em, hard labor, 6 months first offense. Tack on a 5 years for each subsequent offense.......

An additional benefit would be all the new Jobs opening up for Correctional Officers who would have to man those new prisons we would build to house those who have been convicted. However, the drain would still be on the economy because we would have to pay for the Prisons, it's staff and to feed, Cloth and take care of the health cost of those illegals we jail. Hmmm doesn't sound like a solution to me! I like a more closely patroled Border..maybe patroled by the National Guard

 

[Corn]

An additional benefit would be all the new Jobs opening up for Correctional Officers who would have to man those new prisons we would build to house those who have been convicted. However, the drain would still be on the economy because we would have to pay for the Prisons, it's staff and to feed, Cloth and take care of the health cost of those illegals we jail. Hmmm doesn't sound like a solution to me! I like a more closely patroled Border..maybe patroled by the National Guard

I agree with the exception that I believe that imprisonment and hard labor for all illegals caught would be a significant deterrent. Sure, at first it wouldn't change much, but as soon as the stories of imprisonment and hard labor start to trickle back into Mexico I bet a marked decrease in the number of fence jumpers will be the rule of the day.

The door revolves because there is no penalty, no deterrent, they just get sent back home...........I say shackle 'em, give 'em a trash bag and 5 miles of freeway/city blocks/parkland to maintain each day......the land of opportunity!!!

 

[rjain]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Working for a living is not receiving handouts. When someones been doing his job well for over 20 years and then finds himself out of work due to his job being sent overseas so some peasant in a sweatshop can do it for pennies on the dollar just so His employer can increase his profit margin it doesn't help America in the slightest.

Maybe New York should follow the same principles and protest jobs going to "peasants" in Georgia. Just because they'll do it for pennies on the dollar doesn't mean it helps New York in the slightest... other than reducing the costs to New Yorkers for the product they're making.

 

[rjain]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkeyWhat if the U.S. simply allows unlimited legal immigration? Do you have any problem with that?

It would make matters worse. Yes.

So, I guess the bottom line is: You don't want these people here regardless of whether they're legal or not.

No, he just wants to be able to pick and choose who is entitled to the freedom to pursue happiness. Some people just don't deserve freedoms, since we're not all born equal.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: rjain

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Working for a living is not receiving handouts. When someones been doing his job well for over 20 years and then finds himself out of work due to his job being sent overseas so some peasant in a sweatshop can do it for pennies on the dollar just so His employer can increase his profit margin it doesn't help America in the slightest.

Maybe New York should follow the same principles and protest jobs going to "peasants" in Georgia. Just because they'll do it for pennies on the dollar doesn't mean it helps New York in the slightest... other than reducing the costs to New Yorkers for the product they're making.

Yeah right, ship Broadway Musicals down to Georgia

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: rjain

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkeyWhat if the U.S. simply allows unlimited legal immigration? Do you have any problem with that?

It would make matters worse. Yes.

So, I guess the bottom line is: You don't want these people here regardless of whether they're legal or not.

No, he just wants to be able to pick and choose who is entitled to the freedom to pursue happiness. Some people just don't deserve freedoms, since we're not all born equal.

No, that is also wrong and not what I said.

You people are jumping to conclusions - just like Corn said. Corn thinks I fell into some "trap" or was "tricked" - but in reality I was neither. My reply was intentionally vague - so DM could continue to show everyone how silly his arguement is. He is using one extreme to try to position one extreme against the other. Neither of those options will work as they both bring their own set of problems with them. Open borders would be a security nightmare, and to put troops along it would also present big problems.

So my answer of yes- I have a problem with that , because unlimited legal immigration will cause big problems too.

Now, rjain - I defended you(for the most part) against DaveMcOwen when he called you anti-American, yet now you are attempting to paint me as someone who is basically "racist"? Lets get one thing straight - I don't give a flying rats ass who you are, if you are not entering this country legally your ass should be hauled out. I don't have a problem with immigration when it is done within the law.

CkG

 

[rjain]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Yeah right, ship Broadway Musicals down to Georgia

Yeah, the whole state just performs musicals.

Might as well say that Americans only ever eat McDonalds and wear Levis.