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8/8 Stock Market thread *EDIT* Lets watch what happens 8/9 now

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Never been a better time to buy real estate IF you have cash or a nice, safe government income. I've already missed paychecks to avoid laying off employees; nothing is going to tempt me back into debt.

And if I was to buy, it would be modestly priced Section 8 rental property.

werepossum, never ever buy Section 8 property. A lot of people in the Section 8 program are good, hardworking people but a tiny minority of them are the worst welfare queens imaginable. They will squat in your property for months, even years, trashing it and you can spend thousands getting them out. I've seen it happen to clients and friends repeatedly. The section 8 program doesn't allow you to pick and choose tenants, which is a huge drawback in my book.

Don't take the above as racist-I personally have had maybe a dozen tenants before I got out of rental real estate and the best two tenants were black.

It is a good time to buy real estate-mortgage rates are insanely low (underwriting is still the death of a thousand paper cuts though) and it is definately a buyer's market. Vacation properties especially are good buys, but financing will be very hard to get.
 
werepossum, never ever buy Section 8 property. A lot of people in the Section 8 program are good, hardworking people but a tiny minority of them are the worst welfare queens imaginable. They will squat in your property for months, even years, trashing it and you can spend thousands getting them out. I've seen it happen to clients and friends repeatedly. The section 8 program doesn't allow you to pick and choose tenants, which is a huge drawback in my book.

Don't take the above as racist-I personally have had maybe a dozen tenants before I got out of rental real estate and the best two tenants were black.

It is a good time to buy real estate-mortgage rates are insanely low (underwriting is still the death of a thousand paper cuts though) and it is definately a buyer's market. Vacation properties especially are good buys, but financing will be very hard to get.
Actually they changed Section 8 rules - now you interview and choose your own tenants. They had to; everyone had suffered the same things you described and were removing their property from the Section 8 program.

I wouldn't actually want the hassle, but I know several people who make pretty good money and are building up wealth by investing in Section 8 housing on the side. They still occasionally get their property trashed though; one coworker got a house almost totaled. They get friends to build false reference trails for them.
 
This is where you are the victim of an ideology that it's hard to get through. You don't understand a thing, and I don't mean that nastily, about the issues of wealth and tyranny.

But that's common for people who grew up in better times; people used to overly trust the government, too, in other times.

A tea partier can in one breath say the government is a totally useless, evil, corrupt enemy of humanity that should be destroyed, and in the next when talk about the government asking for volunteers for a war get a tear in their eye saying if the President asks their help it is their patriotic duty to serve, no questions asked, don't you dare say a bad word about the President. Cognitive dissonance is strong in this one.

You view the rich class as some group of nice people who the people of the US depend on for national prosperity, who are hounded by ungrateful liberals who want to kill the geese who laid the golden eggs, they should have their own baseball cards celebrating the incredible gifts they have given our society, they should get handicapped parking placards and statues (funded by private donation, of course) in their honor. They pose no threat to the American people, quite the opposite.

Trying to argue against that is very much like trying to argue against an ideological communist for whom how you comb your hair is a class battle, for whom there is nothing but evil in every private sector economic activity, who use the same language for a hot dog stand as for Enron.

You need to be afraid, very afraid, of our of control private wealth corrupting our democracy. But I can't get through I suspect. Many Soviet citizens yearn for the days of Stalin. I can't convince them otherwise, either, generally. The government is one thing in the hands serving the public interest, and quite another in your 'police state' version. You can't simply discuss 'the government'; it depends which type it is. But you only recognize the 'evil' type, which drives your politics and makes you an unwitting servant of evil.

Admittedly, the government can be a horrible tyrant, we need look no further than Stalin or Mao or Kim. Good government is a hard art and rare, really. This is why it's horrible to see when countries are making progress - countries like Chile under Allende, when democracy is blooming -to have something like corrupt US corporations come in and stomp on it, killing the leader and many supporters of democracy and patriots, to put the nation under tyranny so a few can make a few more bucks.

That was an act by our government, requested by a coalition of US corporations who preferred exploitive profits to fair ones.

The worst governments are when the wealthy control them for their interests against the public - like the old European monarchies, where wealth an power were the same, unlike here where there is a small separation; I don't know of any of our many billionares who 'are the government', they merely fund its corruption for 'their people' to hold power.

If you look at any history of the classes, and notice the history of businesses paying people just enough not to starve and discarding them if injured, employed slave labor, employed child labor, had unsafe conditions, killed labor organizers, you see that business is largely amoral, simply always pursuing more profit; it needs a counter - and that's democracy and the government - to advocate the people's interests over simply profit. To remember who's in charge - the people, not their creation, corporations.

There will never be enough austerity to satisfy business until we're like China - if then.

Your ideology doesn't understand the need for balance, the role of democracy.

One more fallacy - you talk about the positives of the wealthy as if you're defending them against jail by liberals. You can't tell the difference between 'imprison the rich' and 'make them pay for every $1000 of income over $250,000, $30 more tax', which is repealing the Bush tax cuts would do. That can be nothing but 'punishing them' to your ideology. So you can't discuss the issue without treating like it's attacking them, failing to appreciate Democrats favor their getting large reward, just not as unlimited as you.

Save234
Good post, Craig.

I do think I have balance in mind when I make my statements.

I do appreciate the roll Government has to offer, which is to help people that are not otherwise helped.

What I disagree with, of course, is how our nation should be run. As some of George Orwell's "1984" or some of Aldus Huxley's "Brave New World," prophecies become clearer today, we see little left of the original American Constitution, or American ideology.

Sure we can tax (rich) people more. But where does that get us? We can now spend more (than we already are) on people that are not contributing to society? We can keep those Government Agencies, like Education, Agriculture, that do little to nothing to help the average citizen?

Government has become the people's foil, not their savior.

-John
 
That's why i said dollar cost average little by little. The blood started flowing but it'll take a while to bottom out.

Ok finally regained proper internet access!

Dollar cost averaging is going to be my plan as well. I made sure to keep a certain portion of my assets in cash just for opportunities like this. Not brave enough to dive in head first with the rest of my cash holdings but going to add in a bit more than my normal contributions little by little for the next little while. This should make sure that I catch the bottom, and overall have paid less for my shares. Who knows how long these drops will last, days, weeks, or months, etc...

This will be my first period of hectic stock movement since I've had a significant amount of my net value invested. This will test my will power and discipline and see if can keep my head on straight.
 
This will be my first period of hectic stock movement since I've had a significant amount of my net value invested. This will test my will power and discipline and see if can keep my head on straight.
Me, too. I have a lot more to lose than I did in 2008/2009, but still many years before I need it. I kept enough out of stocks that I intend on buying some more with the difference if this crashes down far enough though I haven't pulled out of my ass which number I deem "far enough".

Futures were up a half hour ago, to my surprise. Now they are negative, not to it. Sentiment is definitely negative now and I think it's catching a falling knife to expect anything different in the very short term. Probably another negative day.
 
Yes, the market is finally showing some strength, it's been essentially flat for 3 days, and oil is starting to creep up again. I need to find a graph that superimposes oil price on DJI.
 
Hey, now that all the liquid cash rich Americans just made a killing from the sudden growth - when can we expect more jobs?

LOL,... I am so sorry. I tried to say that with a straight face, but after 40 years of "trickle down" economics that never amounted to ANYTHING, I just have to laugh.

Wooooo! Man, if you don't laugh as something as depressing as lap dogs barking at us in the name of their masters, for 40 years, you'll just go crazy.
 
Damn my terrible internet connection and damn these mutual funds and taking a whole god damn day for a purchase to go through! 😡 Looks like I'm going to miss this round of buying opportunity. Let's see if this really was a < 1 week craze.
 
Damn my terrible internet connection and damn these mutual funds and taking a whole god damn day for a purchase to go through! 😡 Looks like I'm going to miss this round of buying opportunity. Let's see if this really was a < 1 week craze.
Probably not. it's a great time to make money. And a great time to lose an awful lot of it, too. Market is totally insane.

Here is what we've had this week:

-634
+439
-520
+423

Give or take a few on the second and third ones, I didn't check the exact numbers.
 
Probably not. it's a great time to make money. And a great time to lose an awful lot of it, too. Market is totally insane.

Market being this bipolar scares me and leads me to believe that things might be aligning for a sizable bear move down. Last time the market was ping-ponging multiple hundreds of points on alternating days was during the Bear Stearns/Lehman Brothers meltdowns, and I could easily see the market slipping another 20-25% or so at this point. I had been increasing the equity exposure in my 401(k) account back up to a more typical 75% or so over the last 2 or 3 weeks as the debt ceiling crisis got resolved and on big down days. Today, however, I undid all that and went back to around 35-40% stable/short term funds, which is towards the high side for me. Might still make some tactical purchases of dividend paying stocks in my Roth account, but I'm going to play more defense for my 401(k).
 
1312996841-stox.jpg
 
Actually, this erratic behavior was also mirrored in 1929 just before the great crash.
Highly suggest watching via Netflix instant streaming "THE CRASH OF 1929".
 
So many people made so much money these past few days.

AND, it's the SAME people who are complaining that this "mess" is Obama's fault. Tsk, tsk, tsk - biting the hand that stuffed you full it seems.
 
Robert Reich says this is an unnecessary, man-made push to a double dip:

Slouching Toward a Double-Dip, for No Good Reason
Posted: 8/8/11 11:09 AM ET

Imagine your house is burning. You call the fire department but your call isn't answered because every fire fighter in town is debating whether there will be enough water to fight fires over the next ten years, even though water is plentiful right now. (Yes, there's a long-term problem.) One faction won't even allow the fire trucks out of the garage unless everyone agrees to cut water use. An agency that rates fire departments has just issued a downgrade, causing everyone to hoard water.

While all this squabbling continues, your house burns to the ground and the fire has now spread to your neighbors' homes. But because everyone is preoccupied with the wrong question (the long-term water supply) and the wrong solution (saving water now), there's no response. In the end, the town comes up with a plan for the water supply over the next decade, but it's irrelevant because the whole town has been turned to ashes.

Okay, I exaggerate a bit, but you get the point. The American economy is on the verge of another recession. Most Americans haven't even emerged from the last one. Consumers (70 percent of the economy) won't or can't spend because their major asset is worth a third less than it was five years ago, they can't borrow as before, and they're justifiably worried about their jobs and wages. And without customers, businesses won't expand and hire. So we're trapped in a vicious cycle that's getting worse.

But the government won't come to the rescue by spending more and cutting most peoples' taxes because it's obsessed by a so-called "debt crisis" based on budget projections over the next ten years. That obsession -- which serves the ideological purposes of right-wing Republicans who really want to shrink government -- has even spread to the eat-your-spinach media, deficit hawks in the Democratic Party, and a major (and thoroughly irresponsible) credit-rating agency that's neither standard nor poor.

Meanwhile, some lazy (or misinformed) commentators are linking our faux debt crisis to Europe's real one. But the two are entirely different. Several European nations don't have enough money to repay what they owe their lenders, or even pay the interest. That's threatening the entire euro-zone.

But there's no question that the United States has enough money to pay what it owes. We're the richest nation in the world and we print the money the world relies on. The only question on this side of the pond is whether tea-party Republicans will allow America to pay its bills when the debt-ceiling fight resumes at the end of 2012.

Europe is scared of what's happening in the United States - but it's not America's faux "debt crisis" that's spooked them. It's the slowdown here (and the likelihood of another recession), made all the worse as our debt obsession prevents the U.S. government from doing what it should. A slowdown and recession here mean fewer exports from Europe to America. When combined with their genuine debt crisis, this could push Europe's economy over the edge.

The most important aspect of policy making is getting the problem right. We are slouching toward a double dip because we're getting the problem wrong. Despite what Standard & Poor's says, notwithstanding what's occurring in Europe, and regardless of U.S. budget projections years from now -- our current crisis is jobs, wages, and growth. We do not now have a debt crisis.

Every time you hear an American politician analogize the nation's budget to a family budget (as, sadly, even President Obama has done), you should know the politician is not telling the truth. The truth is just the opposite. Our national budget can and should counteract the shrinkage of family budgets by running larger deficits when families cannot.

Americans are more frightened, economically insecure, and angrier than at any time since the Great Depression. If our lawmakers continue to obsess about the wrong thing and fail to do what must be done -- and they don't explain it to the nation -- Americans will only become more fearful, insecure, and angry.

We are slouching toward a double dip, with all the human costs that implies. We don't have to be. That is the tragedy of our time.
 
What the fuck does this have to do with the OP?

Very clear to me. The stock market crash was artificially created and hyped over no bad news. S&P downgraded USA because they were disillusioned with the political process here, not because of the results. When the stock market crash occcurred the vast amount of money pulled out of equities went into the best safe haven-US bonds-the very instrument that was downgraded in the first place. US bonds rates went down after the downgrade, not up-which makes no sense.

Market manipulation caused movement, which is highly profitable (up or down) to those who know which way the market is going.

Very interested article, Craig. I'm not big on conspiracy theories but this one has a lot of solid evidence behind it.
 
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