75% of Latest BofA bailout used to pay executive bonuses

[First]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Your inability to answer these simple questions means you are no more "professionally" qualified to discuss finance than I am, but that doesn't stop you from posting your moronic drivel day in and day out.

So take that layman shit out on the street and set a tin cup next to it. Maybe somebody will toss you a clue.

I've given reasons and actual content, to which you haven't replied to (because you can't). You could be POTUS and it wouldn't matter a lick in this discussion. Deal with the reality that you always get pummeled in these threads because you don't know jack shit about the subject.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Ironically, Mr. Smarty Pants, it is your system, which has left us in an economic nightmare, that history doesn't smile upon. The more the government tries to manage, the more it'll fuck up, and it's only response will be to have even more control, which will lead to even more fuck ups and more of the same responses. It's a circle-jerk of stupidity which will end with us all in poverty.

232 years of history says you're wrong. Deal with it.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: bamacre

Ironically, Mr. Smarty Pants, it is your system, which has left us in an economic nightmare, that history doesn't smile upon. The more the government tries to manage, the more it'll fuck up, and it's only response will be to have even more control, which will lead to even more fuck ups and more of the same responses. It's a circle-jerk of stupidity which will end with us all in poverty.

232 years of history says you're wrong. Deal with it.

Disagree.

Government cannot effectively manage economies. The newspapers say I'm right, deal with it.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: bamacre

Ironically, Mr. Smarty Pants, it is your system, which has left us in an economic nightmare, that history doesn't smile upon. The more the government tries to manage, the more it'll fuck up, and it's only response will be to have even more control, which will lead to even more fuck ups and more of the same responses. It's a circle-jerk of stupidity which will end with us all in poverty.

232 years of history says you're wrong. Deal with it.

Disagree.

Government cannot effectively manage economies. The newspapers say I'm right, deal with it.

Which has more weight; concrete history or radical opinions. Feel free to pick the latter, it's a free country after all.

Btw, no one is calling for the gov't to run the economy. Do you even know what that would entail? The overnight takeovers of law firms and legal services who haven't been affected the way the bailed out financial institutions were. Militarizing the Internet and all companies to make money though communication channels. No one is proposing this radical, nonsense socialistic fantasy. They're offering boring old loans, and equity stakes in companies. So don't worry, you don't need to put buy those M3 rifles and non-perishable goods for the bunker, Y2K ain't here yet! Yeehaw!

 

[Pneumothorax]

Originally posted by: Paddington
How come Senator Corker and those other GOP rednecks aren't raising a big stink about this like they did for the auto industry loans? 😕

Yes, the silence from our elected officials is deafening. This shows that all these worthless punks are in on the take. This 2nd portion of this POS TARP was also given with only weaksauce "verbal" conditions. Which means we'll be hearing more of the same "$30K Toilets" "50 million jets." This is absolutely f'in ridiculous.

 

[GTKeeper]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: bamacre

Ironically, Mr. Smarty Pants, it is your system, which has left us in an economic nightmare, that history doesn't smile upon. The more the government tries to manage, the more it'll fuck up, and it's only response will be to have even more control, which will lead to even more fuck ups and more of the same responses. It's a circle-jerk of stupidity which will end with us all in poverty.

232 years of history says you're wrong. Deal with it.

Disagree.

Government cannot effectively manage economies. The newspapers say I'm right, deal with it.

Bamacre, are you saying that economies can manage themselves?

Thats like saying the human race can whipe its own ass, which it can't and since the human race runs these 'free market economies' you so loudly tout, how are you so sure that free market economies work? Can you give 1 example of a free market economy?

One more item. How would you prevent bribes in a true free market economy.

 

[alchemize]

So, has anyone confirmed the numbers in the OP?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Evan
Btw, no one is calling for the gov't to run the economy.

They already manage it, that's bad enough.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: GTKeeper
How would you prevent bribes in a true free market economy.

Can you be more specific? Bribing of whom for what?

 

[jefa]

Originally posted by: alchemize
So, has anyone confirmed the numbers in the OP?

I thought it was legit being on CNN and it may be, but from what I've read the number is at least 4 BILLION which would be 20%.

0% of bailout money should be used to pay executive bonuses.

 

[GTKeeper]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: GTKeeper
How would you prevent bribes in a true free market economy.

Can you be more specific? Bribing of whom for what?

You give me money under the table, cash and I give you this contract.

How do you enforce this without regulation? How do companies enforce it themselves in a free market?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: GTKeeper

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: GTKeeper
How would you prevent bribes in a true free market economy.

Can you be more specific? Bribing of whom for what?

You give me money under the table, cash and I give you this contract.

How do you enforce this without regulation? How do companies enforce it themselves in a free market?

I'm still not 100% sure what you mean.

Governments play a role. A contract is property, governments should enforce contracts and protect property rights. I'm not promoting anarchy here.

Edit:
http://www.mises.org/story/2578

That relevant to what you mean?

 

[jefa]

SUCCESS!!

Thain subpoenaed for Merrill bonuses

 

[GTKeeper]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: GTKeeper

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: GTKeeper
How would you prevent bribes in a true free market economy.

Can you be more specific? Bribing of whom for what?

You give me money under the table, cash and I give you this contract.

How do you enforce this without regulation? How do companies enforce it themselves in a free market?

I'm still not 100% sure what you mean.

Governments play a role. A contract is property, governments should enforce contracts and protect property rights. I'm not promoting anarchy here.

Edit:
http://www.mises.org/story/2578

That relevant to what you mean?

Ok so the government does play a role. What I advocate and I am sure LK feels the same way is transparency in what companies are doing in the first place.

The issue with this whole debacle of the housing bust and this ridiculous bailout (which IMHO we have no choice in doing) is that no one knows anything. That is the scary part here. No one KNOWS anything. If you ask the companies 'what did you spend tax payer money on' they say 'none of your business, stop messing with the free market. If you ask the financial institutions to put their derivative off balance sheet positions into some kind of exchange, the balk at the idea. Part of the free market principle is being able to fairly value goods and services and be able to exchange them somehow for money. I see these companies as actually being anti free market themselvs if they dont even want anyone to know what kind of derivatives they are holding.

Companies claim to their grave that transaprency and reporting on activities causes too much overhead and its just so innefficient that its too much effort to do at all.

Well, tough shit. Part of your job as a public entity (in the case of GS, MS, BoA etc.) is that it is your job to inform your shareholders how their money they invested in you is being spent.

What boggles my mind is that these companies have the gull the come out and say 'oh shit, we didn't really know how much money we lost, we really just found out at the last minute' The case being this MS BoA fiasco.

Think about it for a minute. These companies got so out of control that they can't even keep their own books straight. How the hell is the free market supposed to work when companies can't even account for their own stuff! Regulators went into Lehman before they went bust. They looked at their books.... and guess what they found BILLIONS of dollars in losses on the books, and when they asked the CFO or whoever 'WTF are these losses for' they literlarly said WE DONT KNOW.

What is worse is that these companies play such an critical role in our capitalist economy that when they do fail, the effects are massive.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: GTKeeper
If you ask the companies 'what did you spend tax payer money on' they say 'none of your business, stop messing with the free market.

In a free market, they don't get bailouts to begin with.

Companies claim to their grave that transaprency and reporting on activities causes too much overhead and its just so innefficient that its too much effort to do at all.

These companies got so out of control that they can't even keep their own books straight. How the hell is the free market supposed to work when companies can't even account for their own stuff!

Regulators went into Lehman before they went bust. They looked at their books.... and guess what they found BILLIONS of dollars in losses on the books, and when they asked the CFO or whoever 'WTF are these losses for' they literlarly said WE DONT KNOW.

That is why we shouldn't rely on SEC auditing, and instead private auditors who have a reputation to maintain, a financial interest in doing effective work. The Madoff scheme is a perfect example. Investors didn't bother to ask for good auditing, that was stupid on their part. The only audit was done by a small two-man operation, that should have been a giant red flag. And it was a flag that some did see, and chose not to invest.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: bamacre
I'm still not 100% sure what you mean.

Governments play a role. A contract is property, governments should enforce contracts and protect property rights.

What government has ever restricted itself to performing those services? And how can they when they violate people's property by imposing taxes?

I'm not promoting anarchy here.

You promote Christian fascists like Ron Paul.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: bamacre

That is why we shouldn't rely on SEC auditing, and instead private auditors who have a reputation to maintain, a financial interest in doing effective work. The Madoff scheme is a perfect example. Investors didn't bother to ask for good auditing, that was stupid on their part. The only audit was done by a small two-man operation, that should have been a giant red flag. And it was a flag that some did see, and chose not to invest.

Are you fucking kidding me?

This is why your naive POS viewpoints will never get past 2% of the population. Even a fucking 2 year old can realize it'd never work.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Dissipate
You promote Christian fascists like Ron Paul.

:laugh: :laugh:

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: bamacre

That is why we shouldn't rely on SEC auditing, and instead private auditors who have a reputation to maintain, a financial interest in doing effective work. The Madoff scheme is a perfect example. Investors didn't bother to ask for good auditing, that was stupid on their part. The only audit was done by a small two-man operation, that should have been a giant red flag. And it was a flag that some did see, and chose not to invest.

Are you fucking kidding me?

This is why your naive POS viewpoints will never get past 2% of the population. Even a fucking 2 year old can realize it'd never work.

Yeah yeah, insults. Yawn.

What gets me is you so adamantly defend the system that got us into this mess.

Sorry, LK, governments cannot manage economies.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Dissipate
You promote Christian fascists like Ron Paul.

:laugh: :laugh:

Charles Obadiah "Chuck" Baldwin (born May 3, 1952) is a founder-pastor of Crossroad Baptist Church in Pensacola, Florida, and was the presidential nominee of the Constitution Party for the 2008 U.S. Presidential election. He was also the Constitution Party nominee for U.S. vice president in 2004. He hosts a daily one-hour radio program, "Chuck Baldwin Live", and writes a daily editorial column carried on its website, on VDare, and in several newspapers.

Baldwin believes that "America was deliberately and distinctively founded as a haven for Christians"[53] and he supports the public display of the Ten Commandments in government buildings

On September 22, 2008, in response to a written statement by Bob Barr, Paul abandoned his former neutral stance and announced his support of Chuck Baldwin in the 2008 presidential election.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[BigDH01]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: bamacre

That is why we shouldn't rely on SEC auditing, and instead private auditors who have a reputation to maintain, a financial interest in doing effective work. The Madoff scheme is a perfect example. Investors didn't bother to ask for good auditing, that was stupid on their part. The only audit was done by a small two-man operation, that should have been a giant red flag. And it was a flag that some did see, and chose not to invest.

Are you fucking kidding me?

This is why your naive POS viewpoints will never get past 2% of the population. Even a fucking 2 year old can realize it'd never work.

Yeah yeah, insults. Yawn.

What gets me is you so adamantly defend the system that got us into this mess.

Sorry, LK, governments cannot manage economies.

And the private rating agencies like Standard & Poors and Moody's? How did they do warning investors about the poor quality of the MBSs?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Dissipate
You promote Christian fascists like Ron Paul.

:laugh: :laugh:

Charles Obadiah "Chuck" Baldwin (born May 3, 1952) is a founder-pastor of Crossroad Baptist Church in Pensacola, Florida, and was the presidential nominee of the Constitution Party for the 2008 U.S. Presidential election. He was also the Constitution Party nominee for U.S. vice president in 2004. He hosts a daily one-hour radio program, "Chuck Baldwin Live", and writes a daily editorial column carried on its website, on VDare, and in several newspapers.

Baldwin believes that "America was deliberately and distinctively founded as a haven for Christians"[53] and he supports the public display of the Ten Commandments in government buildings

On September 22, 2008, in response to a written statement by Bob Barr, Paul abandoned his former neutral stance and announced his support of Chuck Baldwin in the 2008 presidential election.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

All you have shown is that you don't know what fascism is, and that you don't fully understand the statements you quoted.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: bamacre
All you have shown is that you don't know what fascism is, and that you don't fully understand the statements you quoted.

Oh, please fill me in on what I don't understand....

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: BigDH01
And the private rating agencies like Standard & Poors and Moody's? How did they do warning investors about the poor quality of the MBSs?

Not a very good job, obviously. How well their job effects their reputation is up to people.

The bottom line is that some people saw the red flags regarding Madoff, so why didn't the others?

 

[GTKeeper]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: GTKeeper
If you ask the companies 'what did you spend tax payer money on' they say 'none of your business, stop messing with the free market.

In a free market, they don't get bailouts to begin with.

Companies claim to their grave that transaprency and reporting on activities causes too much overhead and its just so innefficient that its too much effort to do at all.

These companies got so out of control that they can't even keep their own books straight. How the hell is the free market supposed to work when companies can't even account for their own stuff!

Regulators went into Lehman before they went bust. They looked at their books.... and guess what they found BILLIONS of dollars in losses on the books, and when they asked the CFO or whoever 'WTF are these losses for' they literlarly said WE DONT KNOW.

That is why we shouldn't rely on SEC auditing, and instead private auditors who have a reputation to maintain, a financial interest in doing effective work. The Madoff scheme is a perfect example. Investors didn't bother to ask for good auditing, that was stupid on their part. The only audit was done by a small two-man operation, that should have been a giant red flag. And it was a flag that some did see, and chose not to invest.

Madoff used a private auditor.... that's whole point!

And what is Good Auditing? Someone like Arthur Andersen? A world class auditing firm, who just happend to cook the books for Enron....

How do you account for that?

Here is something for you to think about.... AA didn't go down in a vast firey blaze of fraud because of some free market force. It went down because SEC pressed criminal charges against the people who cooked the books.

Maybe if Madoff used AA for his accounting things would have been better. Is that your argument?