72 raisins to die

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: oculus
In a sentence: They believe the author has little to no creditability, AS A MUSLIM, due to the fact that according to the Quran / Islam, SHE IS NOT A MUSLIM.

Are you certain that Irshad is sexually active in a homosexual relationship? I was under the impression she was single at this time. The Koran says nothing at all about a lesbian sexual identity or a gay male sexual identity. Also, are there specific condemnations of female-female sex acts in the Koran, or are the condemnations limited to male-male anal intercourse? Mohammed himself had a gay uncle, most likely had a sexual relationship with one of his younger, male friends, and of course no homosexual was ever put to death for homosexuality during Mohammed's lifetime. Homosexual males were an accepted part of Mohammed's court, they worked in female quarters, in fact they were the only males allowed to enter the female sleeping quarters where females would be unclothed. It is important to remember that the majority of references to so-called eunachs in the Koran actually refer to homosexual males, the word 'eunach' is a mistranslation.

The whole act of homosexuality is forbidden by Islam. Whether one is "active" or not is irrelevant. You can't BE a homosexual and BE a Muslim, period.

And what the heck are you talking about in the rest of your post? Almost like raildogg, coming into a thread and spouting off stuff that has nothing to do with anything.

what do you mean, "the whole act of homosexuality"? Is referring to yourself as a lesbian an "act of homosexuality"? Is thinking about homosexual sex an act of homosexuality? or would you actually have to have homosexual sex? You have no knowledge of Irshad's sexual activities. She may be entirely celibate. Given that you know precisely nothing about this woman's sexual activities, I'm wondering how you are arriving at your conclusions that she is sexually active. Also, be aware that prohibitions against homosexuality within Islam are prohibitions against acts - they are not prohibitions against thoughts, desires, or identities. One can therefore clearly be a Muslim and have homosexual desires, thoughts, or even a gay/ lesbian/ homosexual social identity. Understand the difference between identity and act, fool.

And yes - Muhammed's uncle was homosexual; and yes, Mohammed almost certainly had a sexual relationship with one of his male confidantes. Mohammed had numerous homosexual's working for him in his court (they were referred to as eunachs) and he had a rather non-judgemental attitude towards men being homosexual. Of course, Mohammed married and raped his 7 year old "wife" - a prepubescent child - this man Mohammed was obviously a deeply depraved, pedophilic monster (I frankly am amazed that anyone would give two hoots re: anything he said.)

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
Homosexuality is forbidden by Islam, you cannot be a homosexual and then call yourself muslim.

there is not one islam. there are many (thousands) schools of thought within islam (altho of course rabid fundamentalists pretend that this isn't the case). It would be in fact entirely within the realm of possibility for a particular school of thought within islam to come to terms with homosexuality.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: mOeeOm

I also want to address another issue I see in here - This red herring that if someone is not a Muslim that can't possibly say anything about the Quran or Islam. I find that attitude the height of arrogance and elitism. It's a method of controlling an ideology and deflecting all criticism, deserved or not, from anyone else but "true beleivers" and faithful servants. Such an atittude precludes introspection. It stagnates thought. It strangles discourse. It's phony, fake, and a transparent excuse that seems used to eliminate anyone who might dare to criticise the status quo.

Oh no, ANYONE has the right to judge Islam, thats fine, but that is not why we are mad. Manji is claiming to be Muslim, while being a homosexual...the Quran forbids homosexuality among Muslims. But Manji is claiming she is a Muslim and judging Islam AS a Muslim....which is simply not true, she is NOT a Muslim because she is a homosexual. If she didn't say she was Muslim, we would have no problem with it, but she claiming to be a homosexual Muslim.....it just doesn't make any sense.

There are plenty of queer Muslims floating about, especially on-line. There is definitely a progressive Islam movement in the West that embraces homosexual individuals.

BTW You are making an appeal to authority argument (i.e., the argument of fools and liars). You are too lazy or too stupid to address Irshad's writing - point by point - instead you focus on her credentials (whether or not she is Muslim enough, etc.) Actually, tho, her writings stand independently, and must be assessed on their own merit. All of your tiresome blabbing about Irshad's credentials as a Muslim is a diversion, a way for weak-minded people such as yourself to avoid addressing Irshad's arguments.

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

what do you mean, "the whole act of homosexuality"? Is referring to yourself as a lesbian an "ac t of homosexuality"? You have no knowledge of Irshad's sexual activities. She may be entirely celibate for all you know. Given that you know precisely nothing about this woman's sexual activities, I'm wondering how you are arriving at your conclusions.

And yes - Muhammed's uncle was homosexual; and yes, Mohammed almost certainly had a sexual relationship with one of his male confidantes. Mohammed had numerous homosexual's working for him in his court (they were referred to as eunachs) and he had a rather non-judgemental attitude towards men being homosexual. Of course, Mohammed married and raped his 7 year old "wife" - a prepubescent child - this man Mohammed was obviously a deeply depraved, pedophilic monster (I frankly am amazed that anyone would give two hoots re: anything he said.)

"Mohammed's uncle is gay now and he raped his 7 year old wife" :roll: Anymore of that crap?

Homosexual?

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: aidanjm

what do you mean, "the whole act of homosexuality"? Is referring to yourself as a lesbian an "ac t of homosexuality"? You have no knowledge of Irshad's sexual activities. She may be entirely celibate for all you know. Given that you know precisely nothing about this woman's sexual activities, I'm wondering how you are arriving at your conclusions.

And yes - Muhammed's uncle was homosexual; and yes, Mohammed almost certainly had a sexual relationship with one of his male confidantes. Mohammed had numerous homosexual's working for him in his court (they were referred to as eunachs) and he had a rather non-judgemental attitude towards men being homosexual. Of course, Mohammed married and raped his 7 year old "wife" - a prepubescent child - this man Mohammed was obviously a deeply depraved, pedophilic monster (I frankly am amazed that anyone would give two hoots re: anything he said.)

"Mohammed's uncle is gay now and he raped his 7 year old wife" :roll: Anymore of that crap?

Homosexual?

Mohammed (not his uncle) married and raped a prepubescent girl (i.e., child). This is widely known, even by non-Muslims. Today in many Middle Eastern countries (including Egypt, Iran) there is a lingering custom for men to take prepubescent wives (imitating their beloved Mohammed). If you visit the childrens' wards of Middle Eastern hospitals, you will find very high numbers of young (prepubescent) girls suffering from devastating internal trauma resulting from having been fvcked by their adult male husbands. This is all considered perfectly acceptable within Islam, of course.

Mohammed was clearly a pedophile and sadistic monster.

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: aidanjm

what do you mean, "the whole act of homosexuality"? Is referring to yourself as a lesbian an "ac t of homosexuality"? You have no knowledge of Irshad's sexual activities. She may be entirely celibate for all you know. Given that you know precisely nothing about this woman's sexual activities, I'm wondering how you are arriving at your conclusions.

And yes - Muhammed's uncle was homosexual; and yes, Mohammed almost certainly had a sexual relationship with one of his male confidantes. Mohammed had numerous homosexual's working for him in his court (they were referred to as eunachs) and he had a rather non-judgemental attitude towards men being homosexual. Of course, Mohammed married and raped his 7 year old "wife" - a prepubescent child - this man Mohammed was obviously a deeply depraved, pedophilic monster (I frankly am amazed that anyone would give two hoots re: anything he said.)

"Mohammed's uncle is gay now and he raped his 7 year old wife" :roll: Anymore of that crap?

Homosexual?

Mohammed married and raped a prepubescent girl (i.e., child) - not the uncle.

Mohammed was clearly a pedophile and sadistic monster.

And you want people to have a serious dessucions with you ppffff!!! :roll:

 

[Mucho]

Well, she did win the Simon Wiesenthal Award of Valor, so Muslims should take her seriously

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: aidanjm
Mohammed married and raped a prepubescent girl (i.e., child) - not the uncle.

Mohammed was clearly a pedophile and sadistic monster.

And you want people to have a serious dessucions with you ppffff!!! :roll:

[/quote]

Where do you think this Middle Eastern culture of female child brides comes from? Have you ever visited a children's ward and seen row upon row of little girls with massive internal trauma (ripped vaginas, massive damage to internal organs, etc) resulting from being raped by their adult, male husbands? The Middle Eastern men who marry 5, 6, 7 year old girls are merely emulating their beloved Mohammed. Mohmammed had many, many wives, and one of his wives (Aisha) was a young (prepubescent) girl. Mohammed was having sexual relationships with this girl by the time she was 9 years old (and possibly earlier than that). In my opinion, that kind of behavior makes him a disgusting, pedophilic monster.

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Mohammed (not his uncle) married and raped a prepubescent girl (i.e., child). This is widely known, even by non-Muslims. Today in many Middle Eastern countries (including Egypt, Iran) there is a lingering custom for men to take prepubescent wives (imitating their beloved Mohammed). If you visit the childrens' wards of Middle Eastern hospitals, you will find very high numbers of young (prepubescent) girls suffering from devastating internal trauma resulting from having been fvcked by their adult male husbands. This is all considered perfectly acceptable within Islam, of course.

Mohammed was clearly a pedophile and sadistic monster.

Do you get your information from the toilet?

I'll report this to the mod you racist pig.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Mohammed (not his uncle) married and raped a prepubescent girl (i.e., child). This is widely known, even by non-Muslims. Today in many Middle Eastern countries (including Egypt, Iran) there is a lingering custom for men to take prepubescent wives (imitating their beloved Mohammed). If you visit the childrens' wards of Middle Eastern hospitals, you will find very high numbers of young (prepubescent) girls suffering from devastating internal trauma resulting from having been fvcked by their adult male husbands. This is all considered perfectly acceptable within Islam, of course.

Mohammed was clearly a pedophile and sadistic monster.

Do you get your information from the toilet?

I'll report this to the mod you racist pig.

My claims are factually accurate. Sorry you can't handle the sordid truth about your distasteful little religion. I recommend you google on Mohammed and his young (prepubescent) little wife Aisha. You'll find all you need to know.

And um... racist? How so? Do tell.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Mohammed (not his uncle) married and raped a prepubescent girl (i.e., child). This is widely known, even by non-Muslims. Today in many Middle Eastern countries (including Egypt, Iran) there is a lingering custom for men to take prepubescent wives (imitating their beloved Mohammed). If you visit the childrens' wards of Middle Eastern hospitals, you will find very high numbers of young (prepubescent) girls suffering from devastating internal trauma resulting from having been fvcked by their adult male husbands. This is all considered perfectly acceptable within Islam, of course.

Mohammed was clearly a pedophile and sadistic monster.

Do you get your information from the toilet?

I get my information on this matter from the bukhari hadith:

From Bukhari vol. 7, #65: "Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old."


Having sex with a nine year old girl looks like pedophilia to me.

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Mohammed (not his uncle) married and raped a prepubescent girl (i.e., child). This is widely known, even by non-Muslims. Today in many Middle Eastern countries (including Egypt, Iran) there is a lingering custom for men to take prepubescent wives (imitating their beloved Mohammed). If you visit the childrens' wards of Middle Eastern hospitals, you will find very high numbers of young (prepubescent) girls suffering from devastating internal trauma resulting from having been fvcked by their adult male husbands. This is all considered perfectly acceptable within Islam, of course.

Mohammed was clearly a pedophile and sadistic monster.

Do you get your information from the toilet?

I'll report this to the mod you racist pig.

My claims are factually accurate. Sorry you can't handle the sordid truth about your distasteful little religion. I recommend you google on Mohammed and his young (prepubescent) little wife Aisha. You'll find all you need to know.

And um... racist? How so? Do tell.

How old are you 12? You google this to get your information!! What a sad little person you are. Why don't you google "ways to learn Islam" instead of writing crap like this. I suggest that you go to your public library and get you facts strait.

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Mohammed (not his uncle) married and raped a prepubescent girl (i.e., child). This is widely known, even by non-Muslims. Today in many Middle Eastern countries (including Egypt, Iran) there is a lingering custom for men to take prepubescent wives (imitating their beloved Mohammed). If you visit the childrens' wards of Middle Eastern hospitals, you will find very high numbers of young (prepubescent) girls suffering from devastating internal trauma resulting from having been fvcked by their adult male husbands. This is all considered perfectly acceptable within Islam, of course.

Mohammed was clearly a pedophile and sadistic monster.

Do you get your information from the toilet?

I get my information on this matter from the bukhari hadith:

From Bukhari vol. 7, #65: "Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old."


Having sex with a nine year old girl looks like pedophilia to me.

So how do you know he had sex with her in the first place? Where you sneaking by their room?

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Mohammed (not his uncle) married and raped a prepubescent girl (i.e., child). This is widely known, even by non-Muslims. Today in many Middle Eastern countries (including Egypt, Iran) there is a lingering custom for men to take prepubescent wives (imitating their beloved Mohammed). If you visit the childrens' wards of Middle Eastern hospitals, you will find very high numbers of young (prepubescent) girls suffering from devastating internal trauma resulting from having been fvcked by their adult male husbands. This is all considered perfectly acceptable within Islam, of course.

Mohammed was clearly a pedophile and sadistic monster.

Do you get your information from the toilet?

I'll report this to the mod you racist pig.

My claims are factually accurate. Sorry you can't handle the sordid truth about your distasteful little religion. I recommend you google on Mohammed and his young (prepubescent) little wife Aisha. You'll find all you need to know.

And um... racist? How so? Do tell.

How old are you 12? You google this to get your information!! What a sad little person you are. Why don't you google "ways to learn Islam" instead of writing crap like this. I suggest that you go to your public library and get you facts strait.

My facts are straight. The "prophet" fvcked (i.e., raped) a 9 year old girl. It's important to keep this in mind when considering the moral authority of the "prophet" and his religion, imo.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Mohammed (not his uncle) married and raped a prepubescent girl (i.e., child). This is widely known, even by non-Muslims. Today in many Middle Eastern countries (including Egypt, Iran) there is a lingering custom for men to take prepubescent wives (imitating their beloved Mohammed). If you visit the childrens' wards of Middle Eastern hospitals, you will find very high numbers of young (prepubescent) girls suffering from devastating internal trauma resulting from having been fvcked by their adult male husbands. This is all considered perfectly acceptable within Islam, of course.

Mohammed was clearly a pedophile and sadistic monster.

Do you get your information from the toilet?

I get my information on this matter from the bukhari hadith:

From Bukhari vol. 7, #65: "Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old."


Having sex with a nine year old girl looks like pedophilia to me.

So how do you know he had sex with her in the first place? Where you sneaking by their room?

um, you really are stupid aren't you. why not look up consummate in the dictionary.

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Mohammed (not his uncle) married and raped a prepubescent girl (i.e., child). This is widely known, even by non-Muslims. Today in many Middle Eastern countries (including Egypt, Iran) there is a lingering custom for men to take prepubescent wives (imitating their beloved Mohammed). If you visit the childrens' wards of Middle Eastern hospitals, you will find very high numbers of young (prepubescent) girls suffering from devastating internal trauma resulting from having been fvcked by their adult male husbands. This is all considered perfectly acceptable within Islam, of course.

Mohammed was clearly a pedophile and sadistic monster.

Do you get your information from the toilet?

I get my information on this matter from the bukhari hadith:

From Bukhari vol. 7, #65: "Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old."


Having sex with a nine year old girl looks like pedophilia to me.

So how do you know he had sex with her in the first place? Where you sneaking by their room?

um, you really are stupid aren't you. why not look up consummate in the dictionary.

Stupid am I!!! Who's the one generalizing a religion here?

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Mohammed (not his uncle) married and raped a prepubescent girl (i.e., child). This is widely known, even by non-Muslims. Today in many Middle Eastern countries (including Egypt, Iran) there is a lingering custom for men to take prepubescent wives (imitating their beloved Mohammed). If you visit the childrens' wards of Middle Eastern hospitals, you will find very high numbers of young (prepubescent) girls suffering from devastating internal trauma resulting from having been fvcked by their adult male husbands. This is all considered perfectly acceptable within Islam, of course.

Mohammed was clearly a pedophile and sadistic monster.

Do you get your information from the toilet?

I get my information on this matter from the bukhari hadith:

From Bukhari vol. 7, #65: "Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old."


Having sex with a nine year old girl looks like pedophilia to me.

So how do you know he had sex with her in the first place? Where you sneaking by their room?

um, you really are stupid aren't you. why not look up consummate in the dictionary.

Stupid am I!!! Who's the one generalizing a religion here?

yeah, I'd say you qualify as pretty stupid.

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

yeah, I'd say you qualify as pretty stupid.

I can tell you what a stupid person can be in this case.

- A person that tries to justify he's hate on a religion by delivering wrong information and claims that these are accurate facts!

- An ignoring person who refuses to get his information from a reliable source.

- A person that insults others after a discussion to prove his superiority.

Simple as that.

 

[oculus]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: oculus
In a sentence: They believe the author has little to no creditability, AS A MUSLIM, due to the fact that according to the Quran / Islam, SHE IS NOT A MUSLIM.

Are you certain that Irshad is sexually active in a homosexual relationship? I was under the impression she was single at this time. The Koran says nothing at all about a lesbian sexual identity or a gay male sexual identity. Also, are there specific condemnations of female-female sex acts in the Koran, or are the condemnations limited to male-male anal intercourse? Mohammed himself had a gay uncle, most likely had a sexual relationship with one of his younger, male friends, and of course no homosexual was ever put to death for homosexuality during Mohammed's lifetime. Homosexual males were an accepted part of Mohammed's court, they worked in female quarters, in fact they were the only males allowed to enter the female sleeping quarters where females would be unclothed. It is important to remember that the majority of references to so-called eunachs in the Koran actually refer to homosexual males, the word 'eunach' is a mistranslation.

I'm no expert on the subject. I was simply trying to explain what he POV was.

2+ pages of back forth getting no where inspired me. I don't agree with them, I just wanted to change the discussions course back to some real content instead of arguing semantics.

That said, I recognize the distinction you are making regarding sexual activity vs identity.

 

[0marTheZealot]

It is the act of homosexuality that is forbidden, not the state of being a homosexual.

 

[0roo0roo]

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1083918,00.html

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1083918,00.html

I can't understand why there are those who reject her statements outright when she makes a well-reasoned argument. And it seems like this is a crux of it:

For too long, we Muslims have been sticking fingers in our ears and chanting "Islam means peace" to drown out the negative noise from our holy book. Far better to own up to it. Not erase or revise, just recognize it and thereby join moderate Jews and Christians in confessing "sins of Scripture," as an American bishop says about the Bible. In doing so, Muslims would show a thoughtful side that builds trust with the wider communities of the West.

She hits the nail right on the head.

 

[mOeeOm]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1083918,00.html

I can't understand why there are those who reject her statements outright when she makes a well-reasoned argument. And it seems like this is a crux of it:

For too long, we Muslims have been sticking fingers in our ears and chanting "Islam means peace" to drown out the negative noise from our holy book. Far better to own up to it. Not erase or revise, just recognize it and thereby join moderate Jews and Christians in confessing "sins of Scripture," as an American bishop says about the Bible. In doing so, Muslims would show a thoughtful side that builds trust with the wider communities of the West.

She hits the nail right on the head.

She is NOT a Muslim, I don't know how much clearer we have explained it to you guys...

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: mOeeOm

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1083918,00.html

I can't understand why there are those who reject her statements outright when she makes a well-reasoned argument. And it seems like this is a crux of it:

For too long, we Muslims have been sticking fingers in our ears and chanting "Islam means peace" to drown out the negative noise from our holy book. Far better to own up to it. Not erase or revise, just recognize it and thereby join moderate Jews and Christians in confessing "sins of Scripture," as an American bishop says about the Bible. In doing so, Muslims would show a thoughtful side that builds trust with the wider communities of the West.

She hits the nail right on the head.

She is NOT a Muslim, I don't know how much clearer we have explained it to you guys...

Attempting to disassociate with her does not invalidate her message.

 

[mOeeOm]

No that is the whole point, she is not credible, ok I will try to explain it to you in a format that is easy to understand.

1) She says she is a Muslim.
2) She says she is a homosexual.
3) But a homosexual cannot be a Muslim, it is against the Quran.
4) Therefore she is not a Muslim.
5) Therefore she is not credible if she does not know a Muslim cannot be a homosexual, it shows she has very little knowledge of the Quran if she does not know this simple fact.

If she thinks she can be a homosexual AND a Muslim, then she doesn't know the basics of the Quran and she is not a credible source. Now say she didn't claim she is a Muslim, we might care what her argument is, but because she said she is a homosexual Muslim, she lost ALL credibility.